Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

This was in todays 'Turkish Daily News' by 'Mehmet Ali Birand':

Support came from Greece'

I wanted to learn about what had happened during the EU Commission meeting on Wednesday and asked those who were there.

Almost all noted that Verheugen's performance was exemplary. He had met with the leading members of the commission a few days before the meeting and had prepared them for the upcoming debates. He even told them that if the commission were to try to make significant alterations in it, he would fight it all along the way and would withdraw the entire report if necessary. At one point in the meeting, when someone mentioned the matter of recognizing Cyprus and Armenian genocide, he stood up and told them that these were new conditions, noting that Turkey was not notified of them and it would be unfair.

A commission official, who said: "As he entered the meeting, he knew who would say what. He needed to win, because the Turkey report was his. Eventually, he got what he wanted. There was no need for a vote. The report passed with a general agreement," and added that Greece's attitude throughout the meeting was the most strange.

The same official said: "There weren't many commission members who supported the start of Turkey's membership negotiations as sincerely as the Greek commissioner." The official noted that they had created no trouble during the debates and had prevented others, who wanted to use the Cyprus issue as a lever to block the start of the negotiations, to hide behind Athens.

Most of us expected the report to include a condition on Turkey recognizing the Southern Cyprus government. Those who wanted to create trouble were concentrating on this issue. It appears Athens persuaded the Greek Cypriots, because there were no such demands made by them either.

Under current conditions, it appears there is no other opposition at the Dec. 17 summit, apart from France. However, France's attitude may also change.

In summary, Wednesday was a historic day for Turkey.

[Bananiot]

Since Helsinki, Greece has seen a change in government. Yet, policy regarding turko-greek relations is steadfast. This shows immense maturity on behalf of Greece. This is Greece as we have never known before! I rest all my hopes on the greek governement to put some sense into the sorry Papadopoulos government but I am afraid even Greece is sick with his rhetoric that is never constructive. Greece seems to have taken the Cyprus issue outside the turko-greek equation.

Serve us right, for we thought we are the clever ones in the whole world.

[Piratis]

This shows immense maturity on behalf of Greece.

Greece seems to have taken the Cyprus issue outside the turko-greek equation.

So you suggest for Cyprus to take the Cyprus problem out of the Cyprus - Turkey equation? Thats probably what Erdogan is praying for, but it will not happen.

[Bananiot]

So you think that the EE let Cyprus in this excusive club so that we can exercise our veto right in order to keep Turkey out. Some people are beginning to openly flirt with the idea of using veto and even pronounced this openly the other day. I heard Sisipoulos of EDEK say this on the radio and no doubt he is supported by many idiots from the government coalition.

Yes, I believe it’s idiotic to even contemplate to use veto and I am not referring to the insignificant size of our banana republic, but to the essence of this absurd action. We Cypriots need Turkey to be part of the EE, we need Turkey to be part of this big democratic family, for the sake of our people, Turks, Greeks and Cypriots. Only politically myopic or very sick people cannot see this.

[Piratis]

Only a traitor or total retard could say such bullshit.

I didn't say we should use a veto or not, but we entered the EU in order to pressure Turkey to solve our problem and thats what we will do.

If you believe that Turkey will do the right thing just because it will be part of the EU and considered a democratic country is something only a very stupid person could think.

Just look at how the democratic USA is acting around the world. Just look at how the UK is acting. Both Ireland and the UK are part of the EU, did the UK leave from north Ireland?

Turkey will move out of Cyprus only when the cost of occupation will become too much for them to handle. And thats what our goal is.

Your first goal of permanently partitioning Cyprus has failed in April, and your major goal of getting Turkey in the EU without first solving the Cyprus problem will also fail.

So you think that the EE let Cyprus in this excusive club so that we can exercise our veto right in order to keep Turkey out.

Cyprus is an equal member. EU is not them, EU is us. And we are not alone in this. Many other EU countries, and possibly the majority of EU citizens would be very glad if Cyprus managed to keep Turkey out.

[Bananiot]

A typical simpleton's response. Here is today's Cyprus Mail's (one of the few serious papers on the plantation) lead article on this matter:

"IN OPEN and democratic society, criticism or questioning of the decisions of those in power is not only allowed, it is an imperative. It is a form of control on the authorities which promotes accountability and acts as a safeguard against arbitrary decisions and abuses of power by those who govern us. In countries with authoritarian regimes, on the other hand, there is no free speech and no accountability – people have to accept, without any questions, that their rulers are always correct and go along with the decisions taken, no matter how harmful or misguided these may be.

In a way, this is what the Papadopoulos government seems to expect of its political opponents and the media – to applaud its every decision, no questions asked. But when this does not happen the government displays an extremely low level of tolerance for criticism that is quite worrying. It just seems incapable of taking criticism or questioning of its actions with good grace and political maturity and allows nothing, not even the most inconsequential comment to be left unanswered. In this endeavour, it also has the loyal support of its political partners, who also feel the compulsion to respond to the critics.

What is even more worrying is the way in which the government and its supporters defend actions and decisions when these are questioned by the opposition. They shun debate and rational argument, taking instead a dogmatic stance, based on the highly dubious premise that the president is infallible, questioning the motives and the patriotism of their detractors. Opposition politicians are routinely dismissed as being unpatriotic, of serving the interests of foreign powers, of supporting Mehmet Ali Talat, of turning a blind eye to the occupation and of not defending the rights of Greek Cypriots. The implication is very clear – anyone who criticises the government is a traitor.

Ten days ago, on his return from a trip abroad, President Papadopoulos, responding to questioning of the contacts he had had at the UN (it was implied that first world leaders were refusing to see him) immediately went on the offensive. “There are some in Cyprus who consider other (types of) contacts important, like when they meet the second, third or fourth in line at the US embassy, either to gain approval for what they are saying or to express views which, I believe, undermine the prestige of the government and our case.” A couple of months ago, after some of his lieutenants were heckled at an event organised by Famagusta refugees, he slammed them and those who supported the Annan plan as ‘nenekides’, which, historically, refers to those who make pacts with the enemy.

With the president setting this tone of political debate, it is no surprise that the politicians from his camp resort to the same methods. The leader of opposition party DISY, Nicos Anastassiades, has become the most reviled and abused politician, as he is the government’s fiercest critic. But rarely is his criticism answered directly.

Instead he is branded as unpatriotic, being an agent of foreign interests and siding with the Turkish side. This is what debate has been reduced to by a government which lays claim to infallibility and tries to put positive spins on the most blatant diplomatic reverses.
The latest ploy used by the pro-government camp to silence the opposition, is to claim that its criticism “undermines the office of president”. These are absurd arguments you would not hear in any democratic society. Have the leaders of the opposition in Greece, Germany or Britain ever been accused of undermining the institution of the prime minister because they are critical of the decision made by the person in charge of the government? The institution, at least in a democracy, would be undermined if every decision by the head of government was lauded as correct by the rest of the political parties. Only totalitarian regimes would resort to nonsensical arguments about undermining the presidency and prestige of the government.

It is not only in relation to the Cyprus problem that government camp cannot accept criticism. When Papadopoulos’ handling of the Matsakis case was questioned, the justice minister described this as “vile behaviour” and even talked about the possibility of passing legislation to prevent the undermining of the office of president. There was also the instance of the Health Minister’s suspected interference in the course of justice, with the government’s backers, AKEL, insisting that the legitimate calls for her resignation were unacceptable.

Under the circumstances, it would be very interesting to know what the president and his supporters would like the role of the opposition to be? Should it endorse all the government’s actions and decisions so as not to undermine the office of the president and the prestige of the government? In such a case, what will be undermined will be democracy and the right to free speech, which are the most important institutions of all".

[MicAtCyp]

I rest all my hopes on the greek governement to put some sense into the sorry Papadopoulos government but I am afraid even Greece is sick with his rhetoric that is never constructive. Greece seems to have taken the Cyprus issue outside the turko-greek equation.

A chess master knows when to make sacrifices.A novice Bananiot spectator watching the game thinks that the one who makes sacrifices is a chess master.The truth however is different : Unless the sacrifice is very well calculated, may result to losing the game, just as easy as a novice would lose it anyway.
I am not sure whether Greece has evolved from novice level to master level Politics, or whether they realised is easier to be the losers they always were, by making quick sacrifices, rather than calculated ones. Especially when others e.g. the stupid GCs have to pay the bill. Like the bill we paid for them to have their dolly democracy back.

[Piratis]

A typical simpleton's response. Here is today's Cyprus Mail's (one of the few serious papers on the plantation) lead article on this matter

If they told you that the words you have to say don't sound stupid and you feel like you are making any real arguments here I am really sorry for you.

As far as the low circulation Cyprus-mail goes, an English language newspaper, where 50% of its staff are non Cypriots it is just your opinion about how "serious" they are. I am sure the other "serious" newspaper according to you is politis, and maybe alithia also?

[MicAtCyp]

Under the circumstances, it would be very interesting to know what the president and his supporters would like the role of the opposition to be? Should it endorse all the government’s actions and decisions so as not to undermine the office of the president and the prestige of the government? In such a case, what will be undermined will be democracy and the right to free speech, which are the most important institutions of all".

All I can see here in this "serious newspaper of the plantation" is a writer who answers his own questions.
Why doesn’t s/he ask Sener Levent to explain him/her where there is freedom of speech and where not?
Bananiot the ready to digest answers the writers provides is for people whose brain cannot absorb anything else than liquid food. You are not one of them are you?

[metecyp]

If they told you that the words you have to say don't sound stupid and you feel like you are making any real arguments here I am really sorry for you.

I don't believe that Bananiot sounds stupid. Why do you always label people "stupid", "traitor" etc. when they don't agree with you? Come on, we have to stop labelling people if we really want to communicate and learn from each other.

As far as the low circulation Cyprus-mail goes, an English language newspaper, where 50% of its staff are non Cypriots it is just your opinion about how "serious" they are. I am sure the other "serious" newspaper according to you is politis, and maybe alithia also?

So according to you, the level of circulation shows how serious a newspaper is? How ridicilous is that? Most serious newspapers usually start with low circulation because they usually bring out "unpopular" points. That's what hapenned to Avrupa/Afrika newspaper in the north. Even now I think Avrupa/Afrika newspaper does not have the highest circulation in the north, so does that mean they are not as serious as, say Kibris newspaper? Popularity does not necessarily lead to the truth. Besides, I think it's good to have non Cypriot ideas known as well, these are good sources of somewhat unbiased views.