Cyprus-Forum.com

[BlueWater]

Mr Greek start to kill all turks

Mr turk responds by sending support

Mr greek retreats to south of island having lost the armed struggle

Mr turk live happy times in the north now he and his friends nt being murdered .

Mr greek crys and whinges and whines to the rest of the world 30 years of isolation imposed on mr turk

Mr england decides enough lets support mr turk buy land renovate old houses send tourists

YET AGAIN MR GREEK CRYS AND WAILS TO ANY ONE THAT WILL LISTEN

A.)Greek Cypriots, Italians, French and Armenians lives in a houses in Northern Cyprus

B.)Turkish Cypriots do not want Enosis

C.)Turkish Cypriots wants to achieve either Double Enosis or a forceful Partition of Cyprus

D.)Turkish Cypriots with the support of the Turkish Government plans to prevent Enosis

E.)Turkish Cypriots begin systematic campaigns using terrorist paramilitary tactics to provoke ethnic conflict to use as propaganda so an excuse can be created to later achieve Turkey’s illegal Military invasion of Cyprus

F.)Turkish Cypriots are successful in their tactics of propaganda and terror

G.)The Turkish government uses the propaganda as an excuse to illegally invade Cyprus

H.)The Turkish Military begin a violent campaign to forcefully remove Greek Cypriots, Italians, French and Armenians

I.)The Turkish Military succeeded in their efforts to ethnically cleanse and occupy northern Cyprus

J.)After Turkey launched an illegal military invasion upon Cyprus under false pretense, the Turkish government imported large numbers of Turkish settlers to colonize the occupied area of northern Cyprus and forming an illegally independent Turkish state in Northern Cyprus

K.)Turkish Cypriots are illegally selling homes and land in Northern Cyprus (most of which Greek Cypriots are the rightful owner) to anyone who would buy without paying restitution to Greek Cypriots

Apologies for posting twice in succession but there is a major source of information that will be of interest to participants on this site, I have not read it yet but the link is below: -

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/intro%20page.htm

I hope this aids the debate.

rawk

It's obviously a Turkish sponsored sight and as such has put it's own spin on things.

it is not a turkish sponsored site.
funny, someone here said a couple of weeks ago that the site is greek propaganda

this site has gc, tc, turkish, greek , and foreign studies about different topics concerning the cyppro. check it. it is interesting

I posted a source on Cyprus at to bottom of this post for anyone who seek to achieve better an understanding of the Cyprus crisis and the events the led to the country’s forceful Partition.

www.countrystudies.us/cyprus/

[Admin]

Posts beyond this point had crossed the line way too often and were deleted.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/rules.html

[andri_cy]

Sotos and Andri

Thanks for your clarification on your definition of Crook. I take anyone else who is not British is a "crook" also.

What about the people who sell these lands to the developers are they also crooks? What i mean by that is the TC who has lost his lands in the South, got land in the North and been economically surpressed through no fault of his own for 30 years decides to sell the land he is living on. Is he a crook? Or is it just the "British" because in Cyprus its always someone elses fault isnt it?

Piratis

I think you mis read what i asked so I'll repeat the question for you.

DO YOU HAVE A SENSIBLE WORKABLE PROPOSAL?

your answer

My proposal is for a united democratic country, without racist discriminations but with the equal respect for all languages, religions and differences between the Cypriot people.

Even Stevie Wonder could see that this will never happen. Hasnt it been tried before and didnt work then? whats changed?

If you really want what you say in your above quote, why do you feel to go on about those "Barbaric Turks". You cant say on one hand you want peace and have respect for all languages, religions and differences between Cypriot people and also repeatedly convey a hatred for Turks which could be mis construed as rascist.

Let me ask you this, if you could give up everything you had in the North and in return you had the opportunity to be involved in the harvesting of a new united Cyprus which met all of your criteria would you take that opportunity?

Look I am not being personal so I take it you are not either. I am saying when u sell or buy stolen goods it is illegal. I do not know if I was TC and I needed the money or what not if I wouldnt do it. I am not going to claim I know how it is and all that because I do not. And in my mind everyone who is buying that land is a crook not specifically the british. I am sure that some of that land might have rightful TC owners that owned the land before 1974. I am sure there shouldnt be any problems or legality issues with those properties. I am also at this point hopeful that some day those lands will return to their rightful owners but know that realistically they might not. As a person and not as a GC I wouldnt buy land there because there is no guarantee it will be mine in 1 5 10 or whatever years and I wouldnt want to lose my money.

[stuballstu]

Andri

I appreciate your post.

Would you agree that the longer the Cyprob goes on then the less likely there is of refugees returning to their former homes?

In an ideal world all refugees would be able to return but we dont stay in an ideal world. Of course how many refugees want to return? Cyprus has changed from the pre 1974 days and i mean that from a demographical point of view. If refugees returned how would they integrate into what would would be a "new" society. Because of the timescale from pre 1974 the refugees and their families have now made new lives for themselves. Would the children of refugees who mostly now have children of their own want to give up what they now have to return to a society that their parents had? How many would settle in another part of the island away from the lives which they have became accustomed to in the last 30 years? Thirty years ago change was enforced and people dealt with it as best as they could but given a choice now would they choose to put their own families through what they experienced then, without the guns.

Rather than go put their families through the above how many would prefer compensation?

These are questions that not everyone is going to agree with the answers and very few will be wrong but they also have to be realistic. If a GC refugee is to return to their pre 74 lands which used to be an orchard that now has a number of homes on it what do you do with the people who live in these homes? How can you replant the mature orchard or the olive trees which used to be there?

How many TC's would want to return to what they left in the south? Would they now feel safe living in the South? Have their scars healed sufficiently? Do they want to do vice versa with their children and their childrens children?

Sometimes the grass which you had is not as green as the grass you now have.

[Sotos]

Most refugees would return. Even the kids of the kids of the kids. In the occupied areas these families own some property .In the free areas they are given a crappy refugee housing which they don't even own. The occupied part of our country is not foreign to us. It is foreign to the invaders of our country.

[andri_cy]

If a GC refugee is to return to their pre 74 lands which used to be an orchard that now has a number of homes on it what do you do with the people who live in these homes?

Well it depends who those people are. If they are Turkish settlers they can go back to Turkey. If they are TC they can have their own land back in the south if they had any. If they didnt I dont see it being fair that you had nothing and after an invasion during which a bunch of people got killed(GC and TC's) you profit from it. If they are French, British, German or whatever else that chose to go and buy land without the proper titles contrary to the warnings of their embassies and the fact that they are not stupid and they know they are doing the wrong thing, then they can take a loss and go home because after all they took a gamble and they lost.

[StuartN]

Hey Andri - that's just like people who live near the San Andreas fault isn't it? - they know there's a fault there, and that someday it's going to shift and they'd probably lose everything - and of course when it happens no-one will care a single piece of sh1t because - what the hell - it's a risk they took.

[cypezokyli]

welcome to th e forum StuartN

the instructos thingy is outside andris control. those "titles" depend on the number of post you have made

[stuballstu]

Well it depends who those people are. If they are Turkish settlers they can go back to Turkey. If they are TC they can have their own land back in the south if they had any. If they didnt I dont see it being fair that you had nothing and after an invasion during which a bunch of people got killed(GC and TC's) you profit from it. If they are French, British, German or whatever else that chose to go and buy land without the proper titles contrary to the warnings of their embassies and the fact that they are not stupid and they know they are doing the wrong thing, then they can take a loss and go home because after all they took a gamble and they lost.

Andri

There are lots of permutations to the Cyprob and in will continue to have more when it finally comes about. It is not inconveibable that the problems may go on for another 15 years . Say in that time Turkey overcome all sorts of obstacles and enter the EU that Turkish settler has rights as an EU citizen and you cant just throw them off the island. Also from what i understand (maybe someone else can confirm this) to buy property in the North you must have permission to do so from the Turkish authorities similiar to what used to be in the South. If the Turkish authorities give you permission to buy and issue deeds and the property is returned to the GC refugee then you can see another line up of court cases at ECHR. This would cost a lot more money for Turkey than paying compensation to the refugee who at one time had an orchard on it. From what i gather the compensation rate would be the same or a similiar formula that the ROC government use when appropriating property.

The longer the Cyprob goes on then the more complicated it becomes to resolve.

It would be interesting to know how many refugees from both sides would be willing to return to former properties? and further more how many would stay there.

Sotos its my understanding that most GC's who live in former TC's houses look at it as though they are living on borrowed land. Is this right?
From what i gather the government here is looking at issuing title deeds for these properties. Is it not the case that the ROC government has been using the "you will get your land back" line in order to win votes? Sometimes people get told what they'd like to hear and now what is the truth and as we know in the wonderful world of politics when poloticians talk about "economics" it is not making reference to finance but truths.

[retired2cyprus]

ok problem solved


TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE............

SHIT HAPPENS DEAL WITH IT............

you are a long time dead so be true...........

IF ALL ESE FAILS WHAT THE HELL JOIN THE VOODOO CLUB ..........



OR DO YOU KNOW BETTER ???????