Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

I will just quickly summarize the similarities between Turkey in Cyprus and Israel in Palestine

Turkey in Cyprus

> Military invasion of a sovereign state.
> Systematic transfer of Turkish settlers, with the integration of the occupied area into Turkey, imposing its currency, language, religious and educational curriculum, and other state institutions on to the occupied territory.
> Large-scale demographic change, erasure of the Greek ethnicity, language and culture from the occupied territory.
> large scale theft of property and obstruction to property. Disrespect, conversion and neglect of Greek Orthodox religious sites.
> The UN and the international community recognise the occupation and settlement as illegal colonization.
> Claims Cyprus was never Greek, claims to the land through religious foundations (Evkaf), imposed through colonialism.
> Creates "Zionists" to make claims to the land by being a separate people and deserving of a separate state.

Israel in the Palestinian territories

> State sponsored settlements in Palestinian territories; widely condemned but not always labelled as colonialism.
> Significant demographic change in the West Bank
> Large scale demolition of property, widespread theft and obstruction to property.
> The settlements and occupation of Palestinian territories is widely recognized as illegal,
> Significant casualties and deaths due to ongoing conflict.
> Claims there was never a Palestinian people or state, claims to the land through holy scriptures.
> Creates "Zionists" by appealing to the international communities sympathies because of the holocaust, to deserve and create a state.

[Lordo]

Wass the madder, a bit too close to the bone? What do you know GCs in Cyprus set up picnics on the hills and watched the shelling of the civilian population while enclaved with no food coming in. Does it remind you of anything?
Between 1963 and 1964 all the TC properties in the villages where TCs were forced to flee from were leveled to the ground. Does that remind of of anything? Shiiiiiiiit man GCs were doing exact same thing Israel was doing in since 1948 till this day.

It also looks like Israel have not learnt any lessons from attacking Iran and are starting the work to throw Turkey out of Nato. As if Turkey needs Nato. With a bit of luck they will succeed and Turkey will be free of American control for once and for all. But I have a funny feeling Turkey will not be so lucky.

[Maximus]

There is nothing the "madder" re Bordo,

My summary is broadly accurate and supported by facts from credible sources and it is also on point to the topic we are discussing here, which is Turkey vs Israel.

The international community draws a clear distinction between the intercommunal violence, that was the result of colonialism and the breakdown of the unworkable forced state of affairs in Cyprus during the period between 1960-1974 and the subsequent invasion, occupation and colonization of the island by Turkey. I could also start countering your arguments with the reasons for the intercommunal violence, but that would not be relevant to the topic of discussion.

The comparison between Turkey and Israel should focus on the nature of occupation, colonization, settlement, and international law. Not on justifying and exonerating Turkeys actions in Cyprus by pointing to past atrocities by another group. If the goal is an honest accurate comparison, which I know it is not from your side, both Turkey’s and Israel’s policies are widely criticized as illegal occupations involving demographic change and denial of rights.

What is the "madder" with you, do my responses cut too deep and you cant respond with any relevance in your own thread?

[Maximus]

The Turkey vs Israel rivalry is also very relevant to this discussion because it is about competing narratives on occupation, sovereignty, and international law.

Israeli officials have publicly condemned Turkey’s occupation of northern Cyprus as illegal colonization and have accused Turkish president Erdogan of hypocrisy for criticizing Israel’s policies in the Palestinian territories, because Turkey itself occupies part of Cyprus and northern Syria. Turkeys, moral stance on the Palestinian issue is very ironic, given Turkey’s imperialist ambitions and illegal occupations in the region.

Turkeys counter arguments are always about dismissing Israeli criticism as lies, and instead accuses Israel of committing genocide against Palestinians.

So Israel points to Turkey’s long standing occupation and settlement in Cyprus as evidence of Turkish hypocrisy, while Turkey highlights Israeli military actions in the Palestinian territories as violations of international law and human rights.

[Lordo]

I still do not understand why some people feel the need to set up a picnic to watch defenseless people being bombed.

[Maximus]

I do not understand why some people need to spread irrelevant misinformation to try and make a valid point.

[Lordo]

Here is another interesting connection between RoC and Israel.

RoC had the TCs in enclaves which were 2.5% of CYprus till 1974. Till this point Makarios believed the best way to ethnically cleans Cyprus of TCs were application of economic suffocation and sooner or later the TCs would give up and move.
Israel had both West Bank and Gaza totally enclaved, and while they did not take Gaza land, they have been taking West Bank land and reducing the economic survival in the West Bank. Totally in control of the land and the people and they had this crazy idea that SwineCUnts in Cyprus tried in 1974 to take the whole of Cyprus in a matter of days. Israelis thought tat in just a few months the Palestinians would abandon their homes and move elsewhere.

We seem to be blessed with idiots running countries. Think back to Napoleon who attacked Russia and lost. What did HItler do, exactly the same. What has the West done now, exact same thing. We are still paying for the price of this last effort.

[Lordo]

Here is another similarity between RoC and Israel. RoC will not share power with TCs or even contemplate them having their own power. Israel is the same. They will have no power in a single Israel state and they cannot have their independence either.
Take that and shove it............

Last time I hear a GC Akel leader say to his fascist friends not to worry about the elections in the north as Talat will lose the election and Eroglu will come to power and it will solve all our problems. Apparently the current GC leader is of the same mind. He reckons Tatar will win which will solve all his problems.

Here is a few words from my friend.

GREEK CYPRIOT DECISSION MAKERS are developing a new doctrine in light of the geopolitical developments of recent years. Accordingly, if the solution of the Cyprus Problem leads to the effective participation of Turkish Cypriots in the administration, the geopolitical maneuvering space of the Greek Cypriots will be narrowed, and they will even be forced to change lanes...
According to this increasingly widespread understanding, the Turkish Cypriot community having a say in the state administration means that Turkey will have an indirect say, which will negatively affect Cyprus' relations, especially with Israel.
Frankly, they want the geo-strategic axis established between Israel, Cyprus (south), the EU, Greece and the US to continue under all circumstances.
This geo-political vision is also reflected in the solution of the Cyprus Problem. The Cyprus Problem should be solved in such a way that Turkish Cypriots will not have a say in issues such as foreign policy and energy!
Nikos Anastasiadis has expressed this with all clarity in the recent past. By claiming that the East-Med project could not be implemented in a Cyprus administration where a positive vote from the Turkish Cypriots would be sought, he showed that he was against the effective participation of the communities in the administration, which is one of the basic principles of political equality.
It is not hard to guess that the State of Israel, or rather the Netanyahu government, has a similar understanding and is against a solution where the Turkish Cypriots would be actively involved in the executive.
Political Equality Was Also Reacted to in the Past, But...
The political equality of the Turkish Cypriots and their weight in the state administration is an issue that the Greek Cypriot elites have had difficulty accepting for a long time. For example, this was one of the reasons why they did not accept the Zurich-London agreements.
In those years, the Greek Cypriots claimed that they constituted 80% of the island's population and demanded that the majority (community) be the decision-makers.
It was not possible to say this openly after 1974. UN resolutions did not allow such a statement. Therefore, it started to be said “yes” to a bi-communal, bi-regional federation BUT “on condition that it is a federation with the right content and functioning”!
Today, a geo-political dimension has been added to this “sidestepping” opposition to federation.
By drawing attention to the importance of the geo-strategic design where Washington is at one end, Tel Aviv is at the other, and Greece and the EU are in the middle, they are trying to limit the right of the Turkish Cypriots to have a say in the administration of the island.
Both the UN decisions and parameters are being ignored and they are going back to the Zurich-London agreements. They want to give the Turkish Cypriots the right to have a say “only in matters that directly concern them”, and we used to come across such proposals before the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus. For example, in the Radcliffe Plan proposed in 1956, only one ministry was given to the Turkish Cypriots in a possible self-governance implementation and their authority was limited to matters that concern the Turkish Cypriots.
At that time, the Greek Cypriots were saying “we are the majority, we should govern”. This old or timeless understanding, which was brought back to the agenda during the Tassos Papadopoulos and Annan Plan period, was in a way the product of a nostalgic obsession that remained stuck in the past. Just as in 1960, Tassos Papadopoulos opposed the political equality of Turkish Cypriots in 2004.
During the Nikos Anastasiadis era, opposing the political equality of the Turkish Cypriots gained a future-oriented content.
The new situation that emerged in the region in the fields of energy geopolitics and geo-strategy, with Israel at the center of these developments, has led the Greek Cypriot establishment to seek to limit the effective participation of the Turkish Cypriots, contrary to UN resolutions.
Frankly, we are faced with a paradoxical situation! Political equality is being opposed, but they are pretending to say “yes” to a federal solution!
In other words, “Taqiyya” (dissimulation) is being practiced...
The Turkish Side is Covering Up “Taqiyya” (dissimulation)!
However, the fact that the Turkish side keeps saying a two-state solution by confronting the world prevents this reality from coming to light. Since the skullcap has not fallen off, it does not look bald! Thus, the Greek Cypriot elites are being offered the opportunity to practice “Taqiyya” (dissimulation). The opposition to a federal solution is being camouflaged, as it were, by the policies pursued by the Turkish side.
This is why they are walking around the corridors of international diplomacy as the side that wants a federal solution...
Who Will Drop the Cap of “Takiyya” (dissimulation)?
Without taking the talks to the federal level, without starting to negotiate on the federal level, it will not be possible to drop the cap of “Takiyya”! The Greek Cypriot establishment, aware of this, is watching the elections to be held in the Turkish Cypriot community with great curiosity. And as experienced journalist Kyriakos Pieridis told Astra Radio on July 5, Greek Cypriot decision-makers are praying that Ersin Tatar does not lose the elections...
Source: The Greek Cypriot establishment’s “takiyya” (dissimulation) for a solution and the elections -
Niyazi Kızılyürek. YENIDUZEN newspaper- 6 July 25

[Lordo]

I see another similarity between RoC and Israel. Back in 1964 in order to force the TCs to move to the enclaves, either they killed an individual in a village or stole his flock or pulled out the olive trees. I see the ZinoistScum have picked up this idea and practice it on the Palestinians. But it ain't gona work. Palestinians ain't going nowhere like.