Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

Insan,

The second phase of the operation; no matter whether you name it "peace operation" or "invasion" launched because there were still 25.000 or so TCs on South side of the Island under retaliation risk of the EOKA-B terrorists and some other extremists, angry ordinary GCs etc

I am sorry, but when exactly did the exchange of populations occur?

Wasn't it a year AFTER the invasion?

You are selling the worn out story that Turkey started the 2nd operation in order to protect the TC's. Turkey agreed to a ceasefire after the 1st intervention when she secured her beachead and the Nicosia/Kerynia road. Turkey however was violating the ceasefire and continued to expand her reach. This is what causes the reaction of GC's. If you care to examine the cyprus-conflict web site I am sure that it will clear things up. If the Turks upheld the cesefire then perhaps the GC's would not have retaliated against TC's. In any case the evidence suggests that the slaughtering was being done to GC's by the Turks. Remember, 6000 people died during the invasion.

So to justify the Turkish claim that the 2nd operation was to protect the TC's is very tenuous indeed.

[insan]

Saturday, July 27th 1974

The Geneva meeting continues The Saturday morning editions of the international press voiced the opinion that the Greeks had secured an advantage. Banner headlines, in almost all papers, quoted the Greek Foreign Minister, Mavros, as saying: If the Turks don't halt, I shall quit the conference.' By such clever manoeuvering, Athens was exerting every effort to procure international pressure on Ankara.

At the experts' meeting, the main delegates were Wiggin for Britain, Kirca for Turkey and Bitsios for Greece; and there were many heated arguments particularly on the cease-fire and the role of the U.N. Peace-keeping force, UNFICYP.

Wiggin: 'Mr. Kirca, can you give us an assurance that your forces will halt their advance if the other side stops firing?'

Kirca: Immediately!'

Bitsios: 'But, at the moment, there are various bands of irregular soldiers about who will not take orders from us. Would the Turks feel justified in further advances if one of these groups acted in an irresponsible manner?'

Kirca: 'I'm afraid I do not understand. You send Greek officers to command them and now plead that "you cannot control them." This, I cannot accept. I speak for the whole of our forces, including the Turkish-Cypriot Fighters, and I expect the Greek delegation to be in a similar position. Mr. Mavros is asking for an undertaking that Turkish units will not advance even if fired on or if Turkish villagers are subjected to massacre. Is this reasonable?'

Muhahahahaha!

Kirca: Now, raising his voice a little more, he went on: 'Let me, too, make myself clear. The Greek soldiers and the Greek National Guard must leave the Turkish-Cypriot villages AT ONCE. They must pull out and leave the Turkish- Cypriots to manage their own affairs once more. That is what we demand.' In the utter silence which followed, the British delegates simply stared at both the Greek and Turkish delegations.

Bitsios: 'What does this mean? The Turkish delegation is talking in the harsh manner of an army of occupation(So trickster ). When on earth has an occupying power remained where it was while the other side withdrew? Can you give me one single instance? These talks have at least exposed Turkey's true intentions. No one can sign such a document. Are you trying to get us to sign an admission of defeat? You stand to gain nothing by humiliating Greece.' A real argument was going on.

24th July - 12 August, 1974.

Everyday we were left face to face with new troubling incidents. . . . Many Turkish men of the village were taken away and beaten up with hot iron bars. One of the tortured men related: "The Greek gunmen arrested us and took us to Kalavassos. There they beat us mercilessly. Later they made us dig some graves and in them buried us up to our necks. Tell us, do you have any more weapons?' they demanded. 'No' I answered. A shot was fired and whizzed over my head. 'Tell me if you have any, otherwise I will shoot you like a dog.' I heard a distant shot of fire. 'You see, we've just shot your friend. It is your turn next,' he said. 1 have no weapons' I replied. They dug me out of the grave. Exhausted I was dragged indoors. I had no hope for my friend. I thought he was really shot. They ruthlessly beat us up all one by one with hot iron bars until we were stiff with exhaustion."

When had the second phase of the Turkish intervention been launched? 14th of August...


When did all that above narrated incidents happen? Between the dates 24th of July and 14th of August, while GCs were assuming that the constitutional order restored by just appointing a new non-elected president without TCs consent....


Tell me more mikkie, I know you'll never accept the truths....


PS: All quotations taken from cyprus-conflict.net as you advised to me...

[-mikkie2-]

I am not accepting the truth?

Insan, what about you? Do you accept the brutality of the invasion?

Do you accept that 6000 people were killed?

Do you accept that the Turks brutally raped women?

Do you accept that the Turks were involved in mass murder?

You expect me to accept that the Turkish invasion was a just and peaceful invasion when it ultimately served the intersests of Turkey to have partition?

And quoting from your favourite web site,

On 18 July Ecevit sent Athens an ultimatum calling for the resignation of Sampson, the withdrawal of the Greek officers of the Cypriot National Guard and firm pledges of Cyprus' independence. The junta were foolishly confident that America would, as before, stop the Turks from using force and sent an equivocal answer. What Ecevit called 'the peace operation' then went forward. Under cover of aerial bombardment and with the use of napalm, Turkish troops made an assault landing near Kyrenia at dawn on 20 July and met with fierce resistance. When they occupied Greek Cypriot villages the way they were alleged to have treated the civilians spread terror along the path of their future advance. The European Commission on Human Rights, which was denied the chance by Turkey of investigating Cyprus's subsequent charges fully (on the ground that the Government of Cyprus, not being a legal government, could not bring charges) found 'very strong indications' that the Turks had committed a number of mass murders of civilians. There was also plentiful evidence of how thoroughly they looted property. By the time the UN Security Council was able to obtain a cease-fire on the 22 July they had only secured a narrow corridor between Kyrenia and Nicosia, which they succeeded in widening during the next few days in violation of the cease-fire. They had achieved this at the expense of exposing the Turkish enclaves around Cyprus to instant occupation, or in the case of Famagusta to siege, by highly excitable young men of the National Guard and EOKA B who regarded the enclaves as Trojan horses and in some cases took a brutal revenge on Turkish Cypriot families.

So, do you not agree that had the Turks not broken the cesefire that the TC enclaves would probably not been attacked in the way you say?

A case of cause and effect wouldn't you say? I am not condoning the actions of GC's but on the other hand you cannot condone the actions of the Turkish army on a situation that they created.

[pantelis]

Insan,

At least it was Ecevit's government intention as long as he and his party were in power in Turkey, until the 1980 coup.

You know very well that Ecevit (the leftist party) never run Turkey, the military did. His only objective was to stay in power. The 74 invasion barely prolonged his stay in "power" for a few extra months. He was history in 1975.
I wouldn't be surprized if the invasion/partition was planned in 1967, when Greece became part of the plan.

[brother]

WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE TURKISH ARMY NEVER CAME AT ALL.

[insan]

A case of cause and effect wouldn't you say? I am not condoning the actions of GC's but on the other hand you cannot condone the actions of the Turkish army on a situation that they created.

mikkie,

I accept and believe everything that was proved or proveable... Otherwise everyone can list thousands of claims for their self-interests... And don't forget that everyone has the right to bring their claims to the courts for further investigation...

[turkcyp]

Last year if they asked me do you think that one day TRNC will be recognized, I would have loughed at them and said "the chances of that happening is 0.00000000......0001."

If you ask me the same question last week, I would not lough at all and said "chances of that happening is very very slim, around 0.000001"

So in the last one year, with the weird politics of GCs, that chance have gone up from "impossible" to "very very miniscule"...

But GCs keep on surprising me everyday. You never know if you ask me the same question next year, (assuming the GC politics and Papadapulos does not change) I might say that chances is 1%. You never know.

I am really surprised to see that after Makarios, GCs failed to create better politicans than the ones they currently have. I guess he was the last true politician you guys have created. If it was upto him, I truly believe that there would not be a Cyprus problem right now, and everything would have been settled the way you guys have dreamed of.

He knew that, as Otto von Bismarck once said, "Politics is the art of possible."

[brother]

i still say that is a paranoid perception of an unlikely outcome.

[efe]

I think a lot can change after December 17 (Turkey's EU date) turnout.

If Turkey gets a negative answer, I expect turning back to United States, Israel etc. And you never know? What would USA lose by recognizing TRNC?

And if USA recognizes TRNC, many others will follow. (Even many EU countries)

[pantelis]

And if USA recognizes TRNC, many others will follow. (Even many EU countries)

Recognition would be a good thing, only if the situation for the TCs life changes for the better.
Can you give us some examples of these good changes?[/quote]