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Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby kerravon » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:41 pm

Piratis wrote:
I'm Australian.


If you are Australian I am Martian.

In that case, you're a Martian. Why do you doubt my nationality? You can see my blog here:

http://www.antisubjugator.blogspot.com

and see that I cover a broad range of international issues. Cyprus is just one problem of many. My main concern is actually liberating the Iranians. Cyprus is a minor side issue. No-one's being raped by their own government in Cyprus, or having their eyes cut out by their own government. Both sides are classified as "free". Anyhow, you should be able to tell from my English that I'm a native English speaker.

Next time don't start coups.


Many coups happened in Turkey and in many other countries. How is that an excuse for invading an independent country and ethnically cleansing 1/3rd of its population???

The US invaded Haiti after a military coup. The TC wanted protection of their rights, and Turkey provided it.

You are ignoring the reality on the ground. And by doing so you are not going to make any progress. You can whinge and moan as much as you like, but nothing is going to change while ever you try to force the TC to "just trust us hostile GCs".

The reality on the ground is that Turkey is illegaly occupying 1/3rd of Cyprus.

No, the reality on the ground is that the TC have autonomy and they want the Turkish troops to remain there to protect their rights, since it's obvious the GC don't care about them, if you're any indication.

And why Gcs are hostile? We are not the ones who insist on crimes and human rights violations.

The TC aren't violating anyone's rights either. You're the one who wants to put them at the mercy of the GC.

Your answer, dredging up irrelevant ancient history, doesn't change reality, which is that Turkish troops are only there because of the GC coup. All this trouble was caused by the GC.

Here we go with your lame excuses again.

No, here we go with you denying reality again, and dragging up ancient history again.

(ancient history snipped)

Sure sure. When The Turks and the British rule Cyprus and the Turks butcher Greek Cypriots by the thousands for centuries "Everything was fine"

The British were butchering innocent GC by the thousands? I doubt it.

When the Turks in 1974 perform ethnic cleansing of 200.000 people and kill 6000, rape under age girls etc, is all excused.

No, I don't excuse crimes by Turkey or the TC.

And the only ones to blame are the GCs because of a coup we were not even responsible for. (the coup was made by the Greek Junta, not by us)

Like I said, I don't blame all GC for the actions of a small minority. But that's what triggered the problem.

The TC do not have any racist laws. It's a modern democratic country.

:lol: It is called the pseudo puppet illegal state of Turkey, not a country. The only country in Cyprus is Republic of Cyprus.

It's not a puppet state of Turkey. Until you can get it into your head that the TC are free and autonomous and want Turkish troops there to protect their rights, you're never going to reunite with them. The more I listen to you the more I think Northern Cyprus should be an independent country. You're not serious about reunification. All you want is to conquer the TC and leave them at the mercy of the GC. The same GC who dredge up ancient history and deny them the right to even be there in the first place.

Today Turkey is violating the rights of 100s of thousands of people as it was even proven by the European Court of Human Rights. They illegally occupy part of the Republic of Cyprus. So who is using ancient history as an excuse for crimes today? Greek Cypriots, or Turkey? The answer is Turkey.

Turkey is not violating anyone's human rights. It is merely there at the request of the TC to protect their autonomous region from GC invasion.

My solution doesn't excuse crimes and illegalities. Nor does it involve racial discrimination or human rights violations.


Oh really? You know that every refugee has the right to return to his home?

No, he doesn't.

You know that division of Cyprus is illegal?

No, it isn't.

Are you sure that your "solution" doesn't excuse crimes and illegalities?

Only the ones you fabricate.

Since when can a coup in a country be an excuse to invade it, ethnically cleanse 1/3rd of its population and occupy part of it?

Each situation needs to be independently analyzed. The TC felt their human rights were under threat and wanted Turkish protection.

So human rights, democracy and the EU acquis are a disguise to "conquest" TCs?

The TC already have human rights and democracy.

Also, TCs exist as a minority in Cyprus because Turks conquered Cyprus, not the opposite.

Irrelevant ancient history.

If TCs don't like it that they are a minority here in Cyprus then they should blame their ancestors. What is our fault?

They're not blaming anyone. They've got an autonomous region to protect their rights to ensure they won't be discriminated against. And got the Turkish military to protect them also.

I don't want war, but this is what we have since 1974 that Turkey invaded our island.

Since Turkey protected the TC.

We are now in cease fire. Peace can only come when the illegal occupation ends, not by us capitulating and accepting the occupation.

I've told you how to end the "occupation". You don't need to capitulate and accept it. You do need to accept TC autonomy and allow them to reintegrate at their own pace, much like France and Germany integrated into the EU at their own pace too.

There are no other ways.

Yes there are. I told you what they are.

The GCs can accommodate all the TC concerns within the limits of human rights and democracy.

The TC already have human rights and democracy. They don't need anything from you. They will only reintegrate if they feel like it. If you try to force them, you will get nowhere.

E.g. You can not have a "concern" that you don't like blacks, and therefore all blacks should be killed or ethnically cleansed from their homes just to satisfy your racist demands. (replace "blacks" with "GCs" and it is the same thing. I used the word "blacks" to make my point, since if I used "GCs" it would sound perfectly natural to you, as apparently you are racist against GCs)

Again you are imagining that I am racist against GCs. The same way that you imagine that everything is caused by "world powers" and "controlling". And the same way that you apparently imagine I'm a Turk, despite the fact that I've never even visited Turkey, nevermind from there or even descended from there. The TC aren't going to accept living under GC who live in a fantasy world, accusing completely innocent people of things, and dredging up historical grievances. It ain't gonna happen.

Saying that TCs will "decide what immigration level will accept", meaning to decide how many GCs refugees will return to their own homes is an offense. How can you call "immigrant" somebody that his home and his ancestors homes has been that area for 3500 years? Are you kidding me?

While ever you have this attitude, no refugees are ever going to return. And the longer this drags on, the less and less likely it is that they are going to return. If you don't let the TC decide on the level of immigration/refugee return, you will end up with nothing. Absolutely nothing. And Turkey will remain indefinitely. You need to accept that the TC are frightened of GC persecution and give them time to slowly trust the GC. But if I were them, and I saw your message, I wouldn't even BEGIN the process. I'd just demand independence and Turkish protection and not want a damn thing to do with the GC.
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Postby Sotos » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:29 pm

So you say that I don't have the right to return to my home? You are a sick son of the bitch. And don't hide that you are a Turk. There are many Turks in Australia and you are one of them.
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Postby kerravon » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:38 pm

Sotos wrote:So you say that I don't have the right to return to my home?

Not until the TC are comfortable with it. You can probably negotiate compensation though.

And don't hide that you are a Turk. There are many Turks in Australia and you are one of them.

I'm not. I'm English/Scottish descent and my surname is Welsh (although no-one knows of Welsh ancestry). I can see that the GC are totally full of themselves that anyone who disagrees with them is a Turk. Way to go! Peace will be here in no time.
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Postby Sotos » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:43 pm

You support that I don't have the right to go back to my home and you want to be polite to you son of the bitch? I support that you should fuck off from here until I feel comfortable with you returning - never. How about that?
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Postby Strahd » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:47 pm

Σωτήρη άς το γαμώ τρολ να πάει να γαμηθεί τι του μιλάτε ρε του πουστοσάξωνα
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Postby observer » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:51 pm

Sotos, I think that you are confusing property rights with human rights, the right to life, freedom from fear etc. The latter are more important than the first.

You comments indicate that you have an attitude that makes me very happy that the Turkish Army is here to protect me.
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Postby Sotos » Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:55 pm

Strahd, I agree I should ignore him but I can't stand it when some son of the bitch in Australia thinks I don't have the right for my home.
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Postby Sotos » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:03 pm

observer wrote:Sotos, I think that you are confusing property rights with human rights, the right to life, freedom from fear etc. The latter are more important than the first.

You comments indicate that you have an attitude that makes me very happy that the Turkish Army is here to protect me.


You are violating my human rights and you complain that I am angry about it? :roll: If you want the Turkish army to protect you then why 1000s TCs cross the check points to work on this side then?
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Postby Issy1956 » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:23 pm

Sotos,
Why do 1000s TCs cross the check points to work on this side then? Because they can earn good money and return to the safety of their homes in the north without having to live under the rules and regulations of the GC administred ROC. It should be obvious even to someone like you.
The question you should be asking is why dont 1000's and 1000's of TC return to live in their former homes in the south. Thats a much more relevant question to ask.
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Postby kerravon » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:28 pm

Sotos wrote:Strahd, I agree I should ignore him but I can't stand it when some son of the bitch in Australia thinks I don't have the right for my home.

The territory was lost in a war. That's what happens in wars. If you don't want a war, you shouldn't start one. I support you getting your property back, and I support you immigrating to TC, but it will never happen unless you let the TC do it at a pace they are comfortable with. If you keep up your hostile attitude, your chances of ever returning become less and less. As a TC just said on this thread - people like you scare him, and he wants the Turkish military to remain to protect his rights. I've come up with a solution for him to protect his rights without using the Turkish military. But you're not happy with that. You want it all and you want it right now. It ain't gonna happen. It will take years/decades for the mutual distrust to go away. The EU has proved that old hostilities can go away in time. But you're not even allowing the process to BEGIN. You just want the TC to submit to GC rule. It ain't gonna happen.
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