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July 7 bombings remembered

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Postby miltiades » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:15 am

Get Real! wrote:
Eliko wrote:Get Real, I really think we should humour the fellow, he is older than us and may be able to teach us something.

''Older is wiser'' is an old adage, we should not dismiss the possibility that there may be some truth in it, if only the man would READ what we submit, ANALYSE the contents and THEN present his opinion.

I do not like to insult him, on account of his age you see. :wink:

I've been very lenient with this fool for more than six months that I've known him hoping that he might see the light and change his double standards but I've had enough of his crap so from now on he gets the same treatment that any other scumbag should get. Pappou Skatta! that's what he is!


You have been lenient with this fool , have you arse hole ? Let us see what you can do when leniency is discarded . Remember that I do not insult families only arse holes like you so lets have you shit face.
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Postby Eliko » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:12 am

Eliko wrote:miltiades, I have informed you time and again that I do not HATE the USA nor do I harbour hatred for anyone, it is a destructive emotion and should not be allowed to enter your heart as it will make a home there.

I condemn the ACTIONS of that nation, I think the culture is predominantly hedonistic and believe that to be wrong.

I have experienced life in other cultures and have found them to be superior, (in my opinion), that does not make me right, it makes me aware of differences and enables me to make choices.

I DO make comparisons in crime and moral standards between OUR society and those of which I have had experiences with, I must inform you that WE fall far short and I am sure you are aware of that.

Whereas I have the capacity to understand the motivations of some cultures, OURS bewilders me and thus I am as entitled to advance my views as you are.

I cannot accept the murderous onslaught of the USA/UK, it has been proven wrong and the responsibility of EVERY death, howsoever caused, MUST be attributed to that onslaught.

Very simple when you think about it, it certainly does not make me a terrorist sympathiser, do you not agree ?. :?:



As usual, miltiades sidesteps the question, preferring to offer insult to a member who has antagonised him in some way. :roll:
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Postby sweetie pie » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:19 am

turkish_cypriot wrote:2 bombs????? :roll:

What about the THOUSANDS the UK has been dropping into Iraq??? Doing EXACTLY the same thing but on a MASSIVE SCALE!!! If you're upset over 2 bombs imagine how people in Iraq feel over the THOUSANDS that have ripped their country apart...

Miltiades mate, I don't think you'll ever get it but I have a feeling deep down you're slightly racist... :?


I have a colleague who is an Iraqi. He is educated and intelligent and a thoroughly nice man. He and his family (who still live in Baghdad) welcomed the intervention of the USA and UK into Iraq. When those in the UK were protesting and saying 'Not in my name'. He was saying that those people should not be protesting in the name of the Iraqi people.

He and his family still believe it was the right thing to do. His family are living with it every day but still believe it was the right thing to do. They are not stupid and knew that it would be a long time before things would start to improve.

They understood that there would be innocent casualties and that there would be soldiers killed. They are thankful that those young men were prepared to die to make his country whole again. (his words not mine)

This is the view of an Iraqi. A view that I respect as he understands the issues far more than any armchair commentator.
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Postby miltiades » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:06 am

Eliko wrote:
Eliko wrote:miltiades, I have informed you time and again that I do not HATE the USA nor do I harbour hatred for anyone, it is a destructive emotion and should not be allowed to enter your heart as it will make a home there.

I condemn the ACTIONS of that nation, I think the culture is predominantly hedonistic and believe that to be wrong.

I have experienced life in other cultures and have found them to be superior, (in my opinion), that does not make me right, it makes me aware of differences and enables me to make choices.

I DO make comparisons in crime and moral standards between OUR society and those of which I have had experiences with, I must inform you that WE fall far short and I am sure you are aware of that.

Whereas I have the capacity to understand the motivations of some cultures, OURS bewilders me and thus I am as entitled to advance my views as you are.

I cannot accept the murderous onslaught of the USA/UK, it has been proven wrong and the responsibility of EVERY death, howsoever caused, MUST be attributed to that onslaught.

Very simple when you think about it, it certainly does not make me a terrorist sympathiser, do you not agree ?. :?:


As usual, miltiades sidesteps the question, preferring to offer insult to a member who has antagonised him in some way. :roll:

Is there no end to your absurditidy Eliko , this GaRos has called me all names under the sun and you say its "antagonise "

This individual , with whom you are in utter concurrence on practically everything is full of shit and I'm merely exposing him on the forum for what he is. It is Cypriots such as him that denigrate and help to invalidate Cyprus's claim to an independent and representative of all communities. The guy has no scrubbles , consumed , just as you are , with immense hatred for the USA , and in full support of the enemies of civilization , just as you are.
You are prepared at a drop of a hat to come to the support of any disgusting uncivilized act , and I'm certain you will also have some comforting words for paedophiles and any other group of people that live in the gutter by their choice and their reluctance either through lack of education or sheer ignorance . Your preponderance in supporting vile uncivilized acts under the flimsy pretext of "understanding " their culture is profoundly insulting to any decent human being. The killing of babies that you rush to explain that in some cultures girls are seen as of lesser human importance , is the ultimate in hot air stats.
As for this "I DO make comparisons in crime and moral standards between OUR society and those of which I have had experiences with, I must inform you that WE fall far short and I am sure you are aware of that."""

I'm aware that in some of your favourite cultures stoning to death , removing limbs with a sharp knife , in public , breaking children's limbs to enhance their beggar status , disregarding and abandoning of children as young as 2 and 3 years old , eating the brains of a live animal , skinning dogs alive , depriving people of their democratic rights and forcing mass emigrations to the dreaded West , these indeed are cultures that we in the West should feel jealous about !!!
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Postby miltiades » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:00 am

Here is an interesting article appearing in todays Sunday Times written by a Muslim.
From The Times July 14, 2007

Muslim heads stuck firmly in the sand
Hassan Butt, a former jihadist, demands some fresh thinking
In the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings I remember having a passionate discussion with some friends about who was responsible for the attacks. “It’s the work of the security services; I can put my life on it!” one said. “In fact, I think they’ve killed off these guys, planted their stuff on the trains and then just blamed it on the Muslims again.” Then came a timid voice of opposition. “Shaf, I don’t think they’d kill their own people, I mean Tony Blair isn’t that evil. I think Mossad had a hand in it.”

The theories in the Muslim community were wide and varied: some believed the bombings were orchestrated by the Government in order to justify ever more draconian laws. Others believed it was near-impossible for four British-born Muslims to be behind such indiscriminate violence, so the first suicide attacks on British soil must have been the work of other terrorist organisations. Two years on I still hear the same conspiracy theories being clung to by a Muslim community that is living in a comforting state of denial.

Denial by definition is a psychological defence system by which people protect themselves from things that threaten them or make them feel uncomfortable. People do this by refusing to acknowledge the awkward person, thing or event, or by attacking any allegation of the existence of such difficulties.

I spent many years in the British Jihadi Network. While I was a member of that extremist group, I was told to encourage the spread of such theories because they created a useful, murky state of confusion. Propagating the idea that the Government was victimising Muslims by painting them as the bogeymen of the 21st century recruited young men to the radical camp.


The Brits that plotted to wreak death and carnage
Five men who hoped to kill thousands with a fertiliser bomb were described as ruthless misfits who betrayed their country

British bombers and the lost links to 7/7
Background
Brown to get tough on terror
More than Vigilance
'Dirty bomb' mastermind plotted wave of atrocities across Britain
Three terror suspects 'are on the run'
The jihadi house parties of hate
This deeply imbedded culture of denial is not a new phenomenon in the Muslim community. Within Muslim families like any kind of family where its members are expected to live up to demanding traditional standards of behaviour there has always been a habit of burying their heads in the sand whenever there is something unfavourable happening.

For instance, there was a guy in my year at college who was a known drug dealer. He wasn’t at all subtle in displaying the wealth he had obtained from selling drugs and it was widely known that his family knew what he was up to but had decided it was easier to pretend it wasn’t happening, rather then confront the problems within their household. The same happens in our communities if someone’s sister or daughter is seen at a club or in the company of males, the first response will always be: “No, my daughter isn’t that type of girl! How dare you accuse my daughter and stain her untainted reputation.”

This tendency towards denial is now writ large with the problem of terrorism and Muslims. Let’s remember that the older generation of Muslims emigrated to Britain aspiring to work hard and to better their standard of living. They had always been law-abiding citizens whose loyalties lay with Britain in the main. Muslim involvement in terrorism here in Britain carries as much or even more shame for them as a drug-dealing son or a promiscuous daughter. Muslims do not deal with shame very well or anything that tarnishes their honour or reputation.

Just alcoholics or drug addicts must acknowledge that they have an addiction problem, we Muslims need to accept that there is a problem within our communities. Only when Muslims admit that 9/11 and 7/7 were the work of Muslim terrorists can we move forward to the next juncture: which is recognising the hard truth that Islam does permit the use of violence. Muslims who deny this, preferring instead to mouth easy platitudes about how Islam is nothing but a religion of peace, make the job easier for the radicals who can point to passages in the Koran, set down in black and white, that instruct on the killing of unbelievers.

I disagree with those who say the pressing problem is simply how do we deal with an aberrant, extreme minority who have unleashed a reign of terror on Britain rather, I believe the heart of the matter is Islam itself and how its teachings are interpreted. If we isolate the problem to that of the extreme fringe, then we are merely skimming the surface.

What we Muslims need to do is go back to our books: we need to debate the teachings that are used to radicalise young men and legitimise the killing of innocent people. We need to discuss and refashion the set of rules that govern how Muslims whose homes and souls are firmly planted in the West � live alongside nonMuslims. Only when we do this can we successfully dissect the radicals’ interpretation of Islam and fight back against terrorism.

We can no longer turn a blind eye to the driving force behind terror attacks both at home and abroad. It should not matter how painful or embarrassing this admission may be, and nor should it matter how taboo this subject is.
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Postby Eliko » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:07 am

My God miltiades, I would never have believed that there could be a man of your age SO incapable of reading and understanding a simple topic.

Whatever the issue, your response is invariably the same as you veer off on a tangent and introduce your favourite dislikes into the frame.

How you manage to arrive at the weird conclusions you do, is beyond my ken, it MUST be thus:-

I like swimming = I am a fish. I like a glass of beer = I am an alcoholic. I like pasta = I am an Italian.

I like to drive = I am a road hog. I like the stars = I am an astronomer. I like fish = I am a sea-lion.

THAT is how your perceptions come across, you home in on a small section of whatever matter is being discussed, pick out a few words, form your weird opinions and BINGO, your OFF, ( like a greyhound) no idea of which direction you are heading, all you can see is miltiades's rabbit, out comes all the abuse and you have the classic response, a 'miltiades special'.

Whereas you may find me an annoyance, I must tell you that I find you quite interesting and entertaining, I do hope that you will answer some of the questions put to you some day, it will make a substantial difference to be able to discuss a subject without insult.

Best wishes. :)
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Postby miltiades » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:41 am

Eliko wrote:My God miltiades, I would never have believed that there could be a man of your age SO incapable of reading and understanding a simple topic.

Whatever the issue, your response is invariably the same as you veer off on a tangent and introduce your favourite dislikes into the frame.

How you manage to arrive at the weird conclusions you do, is beyond my ken, it MUST be thus:-

I like swimming = I am a fish. I like a glass of beer = I am an alcoholic. I like pasta = I am an Italian.

I like to drive = I am a road hog. I like the stars = I am an astronomer. I like fish = I am a sea-lion.

THAT is how your perceptions come across, you home in on a small section of whatever matter is being discussed, pick out a few words, form your weird opinions and BINGO, your OFF, ( like a greyhound) no idea of which direction you are heading, all you can see is miltiades's rabbit, out comes all the abuse and you have the classic response, a 'miltiades special'.

Whereas you may find me an annoyance, I must tell you that I find you quite interesting and entertaining, I do hope that you will answer some of the questions put to you some day, it will make a substantial difference to be able to discuss a subject without insult.

Best wishes. :)


But you are not making any sense Eliko , I mean just look at this tripe "I like swimming = I am a fish. I like a glass of beer = I am an alcoholic. I like pasta = I am an Italian.

I like to drive = I am a road hog. I like the stars = I am an astronomer. I like fish = I am a sea-lion.

Now ask the question properly and I may just respond that's provided that the question you pose IS a question and NOT a statement requiring my corroboration in endorsing your weird interpretation of some peculiar culture like eating the brains of a live monkey or parents proudly mutilating their children . Some questions require one only answer , please dont solicit the use of profanity to satisfy some cryptic appetite that I'm certain exists within you .
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Postby Eliko » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:55 am

miltiades, are you unable to understand the meaning of what I have just written ?, I tried to illustrate in simple terms how YOUR interpretations of comments form.

You immediately respond by stating :- "But you are not making any sense Eliko"

That is exactly what I am trying to impress upon YOU Sir, read it again, the penny may drop. :wink:
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