Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Deniz said:

"Nikitas, so far you seem to be a fair person. BK has mentioned one incident involving the TMT, and you take this ONE incident as an 'iron grip over the TC community? Where is the sense of proportion here?"

Deniz, the chilling description of the attempt on his father, posted by Bir, and the later discussion in Nicosia to clear things up, shows a setup in which the people with the guns had a presence and influence which was almost institutional in nature. Note that Bir's father did not go to the police, or a member of parliament, or some relative connected with the administration. He went to clear it with the men in real power. At least that is my take on things.

That account made clear to me how the TCs were caught between the RoC and its attitude that they were mutineers, and the Turkish side which treated them as pawns in its policy on Cyprus. In these circumstance I am surprised the TCs do not show more anger and resentment against both sides, the RoC and Turkey.

[zan]

"IF the bomb was put here by Denktas then it was to counter the effects of the Akritas Plan."

Zan, the bomb in the Information Bureau was placed in 1958, the Akritas plan was formulated years later.

The plan to look for here is the KIP plan, the plan to regain Cyprus formulated by the Turkish General Staff. Greece did not have a coherent Cyprus policy until after 1960 when the American pushed for control of the GC community alarmed by the existence of a large communist party.

The Akritas plan was made before the signing of the Zurich agreement Nikitas and you know it.That is the only reason why it was signed because they knew what to do after.

[zan]

Deniz said:

"Nikitas, so far you seem to be a fair person. BK has mentioned one incident involving the TMT, and you take this ONE incident as an 'iron grip over the TC community? Where is the sense of proportion here?"

Deniz, the chilling description of the attempt on his father, posted by Bir, and the later discussion in Nicosia to clear things up, shows a setup in which the people with the guns had a presence and influence which was almost institutional in nature. Note that Bir's father did not go to the police, or a member of parliament, or some relative connected with the administration. He went to clear it with the men in real power. At least that is my take on things.

That account made clear to me how the TCs were caught between the RoC and its attitude that they were mutineers, and the Turkish side which treated them as pawns in its policy on Cyprus. In these circumstance I am surprised the TCs do not show more anger and resentment against both sides, the RoC and Turkey.

Perhaps we are just good little soldiers Nikitas. As some do on the island now, we understand the need but the sacrifices are hard to take.

[Nikitas]

My impression was the Akritas plan was inspired by Polykarpos Georkatzis the Interior Minister when he was a minister. Are you suggesting that by the mid fifites the GC side was sure of the outcome of the EOKA fight against the British that they formulated a plan for after their victory? You are attributing foresight and advance planning to a side which is not exactly famous for these qualities!

[Viewpoint]

My impression was the Akritas plan was inspired by Polykarpos Georkatzis the Interior Minister when he was a minister. Are you suggesting that by the mid fifites the GC side was sure of the outcome of the EOKA fight against the British that they formulated a plan for after their victory? You are attributing foresight and advance planning to a side which is not exactly famous for these qualities!

Independence was a stepping stone to enosis, dont act so naive.

[Nikitas]

A stepping stone but one that was regarded as guaranteed in the mid 50s? Sounds very unlikely!

[zan]

My impression was the Akritas plan was inspired by Polykarpos Georkatzis the Interior Minister when he was a minister. Are you suggesting that by the mid fifites the GC side was sure of the outcome of the EOKA fight against the British that they formulated a plan for after their victory? You are attributing foresight and advance planning to a side which is not exactly famous for these qualities!

I think you are doing them a disservice. I have often praised their ability to think ahead and quite accurately and yes they did know that independence was coming. If they thought otherwise then why start in the first place. The time was right and they knew it. The fight then was to get overall power and that was the stumbling block. That is what they knew they would not get by peaceful means and so it started. Britain needed it,s bases.

[Viewpoint]

A stepping stone but one that was regarded as guaranteed in the mid 50s? Sounds very unlikely!

Its natural you are a GC and cannot see reality on certain issues that how you are raised, the bottom line is the enosis dream fucked everything up.

[denizaksulu]

Oh dear its turning into the usual slanging match.

It's only natural that both sides wanted to safeguard their own community. Britain only had to kick-start the dormant Greek-Turkish emnity to justify keeping the island. The Cypriots fell into the trap and that is how we find ourselves with The Cyprus Problem. The colonial power could have just as easily said to the Turkish Cypriots "don't worry we will guarantee you are not disadvantaged in any future settlement" but Britain chose to use the people of Cyprus for its own "Rule Britannia" ends.

Going back to an earlier post about the ethnic roots of Cypriots, could it be that Turkey was not too interested in Cyprus before 1954 because it knew that many "TCs" were not in fact Turkish and could this explain why Turkish Cypriots are less religious than mainlanders and their forbears were in fact Linobambaki.

Jerry, any sort of Turkish nationalism was severely supressed by the British. Under colonial rule, Turkey was not allowed (uderstandably) to have any influence on its former subjects. My village had no Turkish school to begin with. The colonial powers were often asked for the provision of a school where TCs could go and learn to read and write. The answers they got were on the lines of, "there is agreek school2, "go and educate yourselves there". This explains why many of my village elders learnt to read and write fluent greek. On the birth of Turkish Consciosness (1920's and 1930's) some would walk everyday to the nearby Turkish village of Kophinou to attend the elementary school there. I think the current building was built in the late 1940's or early 1950's. This was narrated by my uncle who was the 9 year old walking to school to Kophinou. Later he got lodgings with the local midwife.

I hope I have the dates right. But you get the gist of the narrative.

Interesting Deniz. Take a look at this site:-

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514277511/ ... 277511.pdf

I have only glanced at it but it looks very interesting. Details about the history of Cyprus, there's reams of it.

Jerry, I have been reading the link. Am on page 53. Needless to say I am impressed. I wish Piratis and Phoenix would read it. Then, they might get suicidal. Everything I said to Piratis and with references. Naturally he will rubbish it.

Thanks again.

[boomerang]

This is why we need a reconciliation commission, so everything can come out in the open, once and for all...