Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Zan,

The aarchbishop of Cyprus could have taken a vow on anything he wanted. The attitude of Greece is another matter. I provided the evidence for my point of view. I will let it rest there until Bir goes on with this side of the events.

[zan]

once upon a time there was an island called Cyprus :

İt is true Birkibrisli Gardash,

Now , whats happening in this island . This is very new sample of the situation in old Cyprus. İ wonder how your dream will work in Cyprus.(1960 Consitution )

Potato farmers make new claim on north produce

TURKISH CYPRIOT potatoes are being processed in the Republic and exported to Greece bearing Cypriot labels, media reports claimed yesterday.

Phileleftheros newspaper yesterday reported that in the past two days alone, three containers with 50 tonnes of fresh potatoes passed through the Astromeritis checkpoint and were sent to a Kokkinotrimithia processing factory. From there they were sent to Greece and put on the market.

According to accusations made to the paper by potato growers who were present during the process, the Customs Department and other state services did not check the contents of each container, just the documents and certifications.

The paper’s sources added that Turkish Cypriot potatoes were being sold at 25 cents per kilo packaged, compared to Greek Cypriot potatoes, which are sold at 27.5 cents per kilo unpackaged.

Greek Cypriot potato farmers also claimed that the labelling on Turkish Cypriot potatoes did not specify which part of the island they originated from, just that they were made in Cyprus.

Representing potato farmers, Andreas Karyos said the relevant authorities were not exercising the necessary checking measures, having a knock-on effect on local potato farming.

Agriculture Minister Fotis Fotiou was yesterday unavailable for comment.



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2007




BİRKİBRİSLİ = ONE CYPRİOT

Bravo Halil...........I nearly missed this.

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

You mentioned internment camps for TCs, something which is totally new to me. It is the first time I hear of preventive detention for TCs and have never seen any reference to it in any sources, including the British ones I have researched.

Where were these camps? The biggest ones for GCs were in Kokkinotrimithia northwest of Nicosia. They were big camps and plainly visible from the road. About 3000 GCs spent some time in these "Kratitiria".

IF people were arrested and held why were there no TCs charged with anything as were many GCs? Why was the TC community still pro British? These are genuine question and not rhetorical challenges. In this forum we need to define these things!

[zan]

Zan,

The aarchbishop of Cyprus could have taken a vow on anything he wanted. The attitude of Greece is another matter. I provided the evidence for my point of view. I will let it rest there until Bir goes on with this side of the events.

The vow is one thing that was a direct consequence of the Megali idea......That was from Greece wasn't it. The fact that they then put them in positions of power is another indicator of the dreams of ENOSIS, Crete being the latest example by which the Turkish people judged what was coming next. Speech after speech by Makarios, leader of the church and the president of Cyprus, in which he said that he would not shy veer away from that goal. The evidence you provided does not tally with what happened so it is pointless. Actions speak louder than words as they say.....

[Jerry]

Oh dear its turning into the usual slanging match.

It's only natural that both sides wanted to safeguard their own community. Britain only had to kick-start the dormant Greek-Turkish emnity to justify keeping the island. The Cypriots fell into the trap and that is how we find ourselves with The Cyprus Problem. The colonial power could have just as easily said to the Turkish Cypriots "don't worry we will guarantee you are not disadvantaged in any future settlement" but Britain chose to use the people of Cyprus for its own "Rule Britannia" ends.

Going back to an earlier post about the ethnic roots of Cypriots, could it be that Turkey was not too interested in Cyprus before 1954 because it knew that many "TCs" were not in fact Turkish and could this explain why Turkish Cypriots are less religious than mainlanders and their forbears were in fact Linobambaki.

Jerry, any sort of Turkish nationalism was severely supressed by the British. Under colonial rule, Turkey was not allowed (uderstandably) to have any influence on its former subjects. My village had no Turkish school to begin with. The colonial powers were often asked for the provision of a school where TCs could go and learn to read and write. The answers they got were on the lines of, "there is agreek school2, "go and educate yourselves there". This explains why many of my village elders learnt to read and write fluent greek. On the birth of Turkish Consciosness (1920's and 1930's) some would walk everyday to the nearby Turkish village of Kophinou to attend the elementary school there. I think the current building was built in the late 1940's or early 1950's. This was narrated by my uncle who was the 9 year old walking to school to Kophinou. Later he got lodgings with the local midwife.

I hope I have the dates right. But you get the gist of the narrative.

Interesting Deniz. Take a look at this site:-

http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514277511/ ... 277511.pdf

I have only glanced at it but it looks very interesting. Details about the history of Cyprus, there's reams of it.

[zan]

Thanks Jerry and the opening paragraph answers a few of the questions asked on this thread.
The rise of competing nationalisms in Cyprus first drew world attention in the 1950's, yet the origins
of nationalism in Cyprus can clearly be traced to the closing stages of Ottoman rule on the island
during the nineteenth century. While the earlier development of nationalism in the Greek Orthodox
community of Cyprus is commonly acknowledged, the pre-World War II evolution of nationalism
amongst Cyprus' Moslem Turks is consistently overlooked or misrepresented. Contrary to the
conventional wisdom, this work contends that Turkish nationalism in Cyprus did not first emerge in
the 1950's, but instead grew gradually from the late nineteenth century onwards; that nationalism
amongst the island's Turks was first discernible in a 'civic' form founded on Ottomanism which was
gradually, though progressively replaced by Turkish ethno-nationalism; and that while both British
colonial policies and especially the threat perceived from the rise of Greek nationalism on the island
may have helped spur nationalism amongst the Turks, the continued cultural and political interaction
with Ottoman, and even non-Ottoman Turks, and later with the Turkish Republic was at least as
influential in fostering nationalist sentiments and prompting their expression in political actions.
While particular note is made of the often neglected impact of the Young Turk movement in the early
twentieth century, this study acknowledges and seeks to elucidate a complex assortment of variegated
stimuli that ranged from international developments, such as the recurring crises in the Balkans and
President Wilson's speech on the 'Fourteen Points', to the personal attitudes and attributes of British
administrators and domestic inter-ethnic relations, and local and international economic trends and
developments. Together, it is maintained, these influences had made Turkish nationalism a
perceptible phenomenon amongst the Turks of Cyprus by the time of the October Revolt of 1931.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

As far as I know Megali Idea was for Greece that would span two continents and five seas. It conerned expansion of the modern Greek state into Asia Minor so that Greece would have coast line in the Black Sea, Marmara, the Aegean etc. All this was in the 1910s and 20s. Crete had already happened.

By 1923 it was all over. Greece had been defeated and had to deal with 1.2 millio refugees in a population of 8 million. Then came WWII and the Civil War. The climate after WWII was totally different from the 20s. To keep insisting that Enosis was part of some Greek expansion plan is totally out of step with history.

Would Greece like it if the Cypriots managed to defeat the British and ask for union? Most likely yes. Would Greece go to war to gain Cyprus? Most definitely no. After the manpower drain of the 40s and the destruction Greece did not have the means to go to war.

Makarios is famous for his go it alone attitude. He is not as higly thought of in Greece as you like to think. His vows are his, they did not bind anyone else. There is a statement by Averoff, the Greek politician, who plainly states that Greece cannot jeopardise her future for Cyprus. You cannot state it any more plainly than that.

[Piratis]

Could you please elaborate on the 'greed' you talk about.

The TCs collaborated against the Greek Cypriots for two reasons:

The first one, was the fear that if Cyprus became part of the Greek Republic they would have suffered what the Muslim minorities in Greece and the Greek minorities in Turkey suffered a few decades earlier. This fear was justified and therefore I can understand this as a reason for TCs sidding with the colloniliasts.

However the collaboration of TCs and the British didn't stop there. After the fears of TCs were removed by GCs accepting to abandon enosis, then the next thing the British exploited to maintain the division and conflict among Cypriots was the TC greed. Based on what were the TCs given 30% of civil servant positions and many other of the undemocratic, racist and unfair privilages on the loss of the rest of Cypriots? The British offered those gains to TCs in order to keep them on their side and against the rest of Cypriots even after an "independent" Cyprus was established, and the TCs accepted those gains on our loss out of pure greed this time.

T_C, the EOKA struggle started in 1955 and had as only aim the British colonialists. The conflict with TCs started 3 years later when TMT was formed and with the initiation of TCs.

Here is the British video about that time:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=pT4EpCV2ysk[/youtube]

So what is certain is that it was not EOKA who started the inter communal-conflict. So you can not blame EOKA for that.

If you blame Greek Cypriots for forming EOKA in 1955 to fight for the liberation of Cyprus and its integration to the GReek state, then I wait for you to answer the questions I made to Zan earlier. Should no Hellenic territory revolted to gain its independence and become part of a Greek state? Or this rule applies only to Cyprus, and if yes why?

Had the British and Turks allowed for a true independence and a true democracy to come to Cyprus, then that would be the ideal solution that would give to Cypriots there freedom and self-determination they were fighting for, and at the same time remove the valid fears that TCs had regarding Cyprus becoming part of the Greek state.

Unfortunately this didn't happen however, what we were given was neigher a true independence nor a true democracy, and it was intentionally divisive in order to maintain the conflict and enmity between the two sides, something that soon exploited into another hot conflict.

In that conflict maybe you know only of your own suffering because thats how it was taught to you. However GCs had an about equal number of casualties and also suffered, but most importantly non of that would have happened if a true stable democracy was established in Cyprus in the first place.
Nobody is excusing the crimes that GCs committed during that time, but you should not try to excuse the about equal crimes committed by TCs. And if you talk about the EOKA of that time (EOKA B) and enosis, you should also talk about TMT and partition if you want to say the whole truth.

[Nikitas]

That video brought back that all too familiar smell of tear gas! Nothing more effective in refreshing memories than the sense of smell!

[Nikitas]

Bir has started a thread that despite the usual slanging is bringing to the fore some useful insights.

One such insight is the difference between the two community leaders, Makarios and Denktash. Maybe I am slow and dumb, but it crossed my mind that Makarios was the type of man who mesmerised his followers. Denktash was the type of leader who manipulate and controlled his people with an iron fist. The planted bomb at the Information Bureau, after the preparations were made for a riot, a scene already tried in Istanbul. The use of the TMT, the fines on TCs who spoke Greek, the change of place names to prove that there was a "historic footprint" in Cyprus.

And to put it another way, the GCs are people who let themselves be mesmerised and the TCs let themselves be manipulated or forced. It is not flattering for either one.