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POLITICAL EQUALITY IS CRUCIAL FOR TURKISH CYPRIOTS

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:18 am

Viewpoint wrote:
DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT. wrote:sam way every other country in the world does it. With law and order. You can't freeze frame your mind to the 60's you need to think in terms of what is important and feasible now. An EU member state has other priorities in 2008 than a fledgling reluctant republic of the 60's. None of the objectives of the 60's are not worth anything anymore, not enosis and not taksim.

There is no more enosis than can already be accomplished with Greece thanks to the EU while taksim on the other hand is something that the TC"s need to be re-programmed to forget.

add to this a EU member state Turkey and what more do you need?


Then the compromise would be having Turkeys guarantee for the north state only to expire when they are a full member of the EU.


Only if followed by a transformation of the BBF to a unitary republic. What will be the need for a federation then?


The 2 area solution is a basic TC requirement and a unitary state would mean that Turkey could intervene in your affairs as well as mine, why not restrict this just to the north state? until we have built up trust and Turkey enters the EU.


On entry of Turkey in the EU gaurantees of north statelet lifted and BBF becomes unitary state.
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:25 am

The "north state" will not be another country VP, so how can Turkey have a legitimate right to only intervene in the north without violating sovereignty of Cyprus.?? And what happens if Turkey does not get into the EU at no fault of Cyprus.?? The best protection for the TC's will be the EU rules. It may take a while to adjust to this new "security", but it will become second nature in a very short time. A good relationship between Turkey and Cyprus will also be a positive feeling of security for the TC's and GC's for the future.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:32 am

DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT. wrote:sam way every other country in the world does it. With law and order. You can't freeze frame your mind to the 60's you need to think in terms of what is important and feasible now. An EU member state has other priorities in 2008 than a fledgling reluctant republic of the 60's. None of the objectives of the 60's are not worth anything anymore, not enosis and not taksim.

There is no more enosis than can already be accomplished with Greece thanks to the EU while taksim on the other hand is something that the TC"s need to be re-programmed to forget.

add to this a EU member state Turkey and what more do you need?


Then the compromise would be having Turkeys guarantee for the north state only to expire when they are a full member of the EU.


Only if followed by a transformation of the BBF to a unitary republic. What will be the need for a federation then?


The 2 area solution is a basic TC requirement and a unitary state would mean that Turkey could intervene in your affairs as well as mine, why not restrict this just to the north state? until we have built up trust and Turkey enters the EU.


On entry of Turkey in the EU gaurantees of north statelet lifted and BBF becomes unitary state.


Why unitary?
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:36 am

Kikapu wrote:The "north state" will not be another country VP, so how can Turkey have a legitimate right to only intervene in the north without violating sovereignty of Cyprus.?? And what happens if Turkey does not get into the EU at no fault of Cyprus.?? The best protection for the TC's will be the EU rules. It may take a while to adjust to this new "security", but it will become second nature in a very short time. A good relationship between Turkey and Cyprus will also be a positive feeling of security for the TC's and GC's for the future.


How will these EU rules protect me physically if the "majority" adopt a policy of bombing and killing? Do they have a force to step and deal with the situation or will they be arranging numerous meetings before deciding to do anything which they cannot do? We are all aware of how the protectors all sat on their fat arses while people were being slaughtered in the heart of Europe.

Sorry EU protection is not good enough, the compromise would be an interim period until Turkey enters the EU after which we will all be under on roof anyway.
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:53 am

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The "north state" will not be another country VP, so how can Turkey have a legitimate right to only intervene in the north without violating sovereignty of Cyprus.?? And what happens if Turkey does not get into the EU at no fault of Cyprus.?? The best protection for the TC's will be the EU rules. It may take a while to adjust to this new "security", but it will become second nature in a very short time. A good relationship between Turkey and Cyprus will also be a positive feeling of security for the TC's and GC's for the future.


How will these EU rules protect me physically if the "majority" adopt a policy of bombing and killing? Do they have a force to step and deal with the situation or will they be arranging numerous meetings before deciding to do anything which they cannot do? We are all aware of how the protectors all sat on their fat arses while people were being slaughtered in the heart of Europe.

Sorry EU protection is not good enough, the compromise would be an interim period until Turkey enters the EU after which we will all be under on roof anyway.


If you are referring to Bosnia and Serbia in general, they were not in the EU club, so lets not compare apples and elephants.!! That is the reason why the EU has put those countries in that region on a "fast track" for EU membership, to prevent them from having future conflicts. How often do you see ethnic clashes in the nature of sectarian violence in any of their EU Club countries.? If you do not believe EU will act in the defence of any gross violations on the TC's, then why would you want Turkey to cancel her intervention rights, once Turkey becomes part of the EU Club. Who is going to protect the TC's then. :wink:
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:00 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The "north state" will not be another country VP, so how can Turkey have a legitimate right to only intervene in the north without violating sovereignty of Cyprus.?? And what happens if Turkey does not get into the EU at no fault of Cyprus.?? The best protection for the TC's will be the EU rules. It may take a while to adjust to this new "security", but it will become second nature in a very short time. A good relationship between Turkey and Cyprus will also be a positive feeling of security for the TC's and GC's for the future.


How will these EU rules protect me physically if the "majority" adopt a policy of bombing and killing? Do they have a force to step and deal with the situation or will they be arranging numerous meetings before deciding to do anything which they cannot do? We are all aware of how the protectors all sat on their fat arses while people were being slaughtered in the heart of Europe.

Sorry EU protection is not good enough, the compromise would be an interim period until Turkey enters the EU after which we will all be under on roof anyway.


If you are referring to Bosnia and Serbia in general, they were not in the EU club, so lets not compare apples and elephants.!! That is the reason why the EU has put those countries in that region on a "fast track" for EU membership, to prevent them from having future conflicts. How often do you see ethnic clashes in the nature of sectarian violence in any of their EU Club countries.? If you do not believe EU will act in the defence of any gross violations on the TC's, then why would you want Turkey to cancel her intervention rights, once Turkey becomes part of the EU Club. Who is going to protect the TC's then. :wink:


The example I was trying to give which I may have not explained to clearly was the beau racy and inadequacy of bodies like the UN and EU, it take meeting upon meeting to buy a pen let alone intervene to save lives. As to your question as to why we will accept this arrangement after an interim period as it will give us time to see that there is nothing to fear and build trust.
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Postby DT. » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:03 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The "north state" will not be another country VP, so how can Turkey have a legitimate right to only intervene in the north without violating sovereignty of Cyprus.?? And what happens if Turkey does not get into the EU at no fault of Cyprus.?? The best protection for the TC's will be the EU rules. It may take a while to adjust to this new "security", but it will become second nature in a very short time. A good relationship between Turkey and Cyprus will also be a positive feeling of security for the TC's and GC's for the future.


How will these EU rules protect me physically if the "majority" adopt a policy of bombing and killing? Do they have a force to step and deal with the situation or will they be arranging numerous meetings before deciding to do anything which they cannot do? We are all aware of how the protectors all sat on their fat arses while people were being slaughtered in the heart of Europe.

Sorry EU protection is not good enough, the compromise would be an interim period until Turkey enters the EU after which we will all be under on roof anyway.


If you are referring to Bosnia and Serbia in general, they were not in the EU club, so lets not compare apples and elephants.!! That is the reason why the EU has put those countries in that region on a "fast track" for EU membership, to prevent them from having future conflicts. How often do you see ethnic clashes in the nature of sectarian violence in any of their EU Club countries.? If you do not believe EU will act in the defence of any gross violations on the TC's, then why would you want Turkey to cancel her intervention rights, once Turkey becomes part of the EU Club. Who is going to protect the TC's then. :wink:


The example I was trying to give hich I may have not explained to clearly was the beauracy and inadequacy of bodies like the UN and EU, it take meeting upon meeting to buy a pen let alone intervene to save lives. As to your question as to why we will accept this arrangement after an interim period as it will give us time to see that there is nothing to fear and build trust.


So Turkey joining has nothing to do with it. Just attach a timeline. Say in 5 years all gaurantees and restrictions of movement and settement end.

The prolem would then be...how do you gaurantee this to us?
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:09 pm

DT. wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The "north state" will not be another country VP, so how can Turkey have a legitimate right to only intervene in the north without violating sovereignty of Cyprus.?? And what happens if Turkey does not get into the EU at no fault of Cyprus.?? The best protection for the TC's will be the EU rules. It may take a while to adjust to this new "security", but it will become second nature in a very short time. A good relationship between Turkey and Cyprus will also be a positive feeling of security for the TC's and GC's for the future.


How will these EU rules protect me physically if the "majority" adopt a policy of bombing and killing? Do they have a force to step and deal with the situation or will they be arranging numerous meetings before deciding to do anything which they cannot do? We are all aware of how the protectors all sat on their fat arses while people were being slaughtered in the heart of Europe.

Sorry EU protection is not good enough, the compromise would be an interim period until Turkey enters the EU after which we will all be under on roof anyway.


If you are referring to Bosnia and Serbia in general, they were not in the EU club, so lets not compare apples and elephants.!! That is the reason why the EU has put those countries in that region on a "fast track" for EU membership, to prevent them from having future conflicts. How often do you see ethnic clashes in the nature of sectarian violence in any of their EU Club countries.? If you do not believe EU will act in the defence of any gross violations on the TC's, then why would you want Turkey to cancel her intervention rights, once Turkey becomes part of the EU Club. Who is going to protect the TC's then. :wink:


The example I was trying to give hich I may have not explained to clearly was the beauracy and inadequacy of bodies like the UN and EU, it take meeting upon meeting to buy a pen let alone intervene to save lives. As to your question as to why we will accept this arrangement after an interim period as it will give us time to see that there is nothing to fear and build trust.


So Turkey joining has nothing to do with it. Just attach a timeline. Say in 5 years all gaurantees and restrictions of movement and settement end.

The prolem would then be...how do you gaurantee this to us?


Turkeys joining is a factor as erasing this guarantee after 5 years would leave no incentive for you to accept Turkey into the EU. In times of crisis with Turkey in the EU we would feel more comfortable as they would have the opportunity to get the EU to act, without them Greece could use her weight in your favor to stop the EU from taking action just like she did when she got you into the EU.
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Postby humanist » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:14 pm

Why unitary? you questionned VP

Because Cyprus is and always has been one Whole and United country for its Cypriot people. ;) have a nice day
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:24 pm

humanist wrote:Why unitary? you questionned VP

Because Cyprus is and always has been one Whole and United country for its Cypriot people. ;) have a nice day


It can also be the same under a federation or confederation just as the USA or Switzerland.
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