Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

VP, you are the one who does not want to share equally. You want each TC to have 4.5 times more voting power than each GC, somehting which is undemocratic and a racist discrimination.

Equality means for each citizen to be equal to another, regardless of his ethnic background, religion or anything else. If some citizen is given more voting power because he speaks Turkish and he is Muslim, that is called inequality

I want 2 equal communities where we can say no on sensative issues, whats wrong with that, what have you to fear? or have you got hidden agendas?

The equality should be among citizens, not among groups of citizens. Citizens should be equal to each other regardless of their ethnic background, language or anything else. Anything else is racist.

If you want veto power on certain issues thats a different issue. Say on what issues you want to have veto power and we can discuss them. I didn't say no to this. What I don't accept is the inequality among the citizens.

Inequality amongst citizen is far from our aim, I'm glad that you have at least acknowledged that alternative solutions can be developed to ensure that TCs will not be brushed to one side especially on issues which will effect one community more negatively than the other.

VP, if there is no forced segregation, then the issues that can affect TCs differently than GCs are those of language, religion, culture and history. If there is somehting else tell me, and if it is indeed somehting that can affect TCs differently then I would be glad to add it to the list.

[Viewpoint]

VP, you are the one who does not want to share equally. You want each TC to have 4.5 times more voting power than each GC, somehting which is undemocratic and a racist discrimination.

Equality means for each citizen to be equal to another, regardless of his ethnic background, religion or anything else. If some citizen is given more voting power because he speaks Turkish and he is Muslim, that is called inequality

I want 2 equal communities where we can say no on sensative issues, whats wrong with that, what have you to fear? or have you got hidden agendas?

The equality should be among citizens, not among groups of citizens. Citizens should be equal to each other regardless of their ethnic background, language or anything else. Anything else is racist.

If you want veto power on certain issues thats a different issue. Say on what issues you want to have veto power and we can discuss them. I didn't say no to this. What I don't accept is the inequality among the citizens.

Inequality amongst citizen is far from our aim, I'm glad that you have at least acknowledged that alternative solutions can be developed to ensure that TCs will not be brushed to one side especially on issues which will effect one community more negatively than the other.

VP, if there is no forced segregation, then the issues that can affect TCs differently than GCs are those of language, religion, culture and history. If there is somehting else tell me, and if it is indeed somehting that can affect TCs differently then I would be glad to add it to the list.

Economy, stopping trade with Turkey or enforcing fines and penalties, demanding GC partners in every new business deal, selling of land to only GC buyers, discrimination of government contracts to GC firms, blocking tourists from Turkey, banning casinos etc, there are many ways which GC if let to do will exploit to cause the north economic hardship.

[Nikitas]

If you exclude banning casinos, which is a whole separate chapter, the rest cannot happen without serious EU repercussions. This is 2008 as Halil often points out, it is not 1963. Wake up!

Projecting this phobia of what might happen if..... is not realistic. The government cannot exclude ANY EU registered company from public tenders and government contracts, neither can it ask to see the shareholder list of a public company. Greece has been warned several times when it tried to get a names list of companies operating TV and Radio stations and was forced to withdraw laws regulating media ownership. Athens airport was built by a German company who won the tender, the Metro by a a consortium of foreign firms.

[Viewpoint]

If you exclude banning casinos, which is a whole separate chapter, the rest cannot happen without serious EU repercussions. This is 2008 as Halil often points out, it is not 1963. Wake up!

Projecting this phobia of what might happen if..... is not realistic. The government cannot exclude ANY EU registered company from public tenders and government contracts, neither can it ask to see the shareholder list of a public company. Greece has been warned several times when it tried to get a names list of companies operating TV and Radio stations and was forced to withdraw laws regulating media ownership. Athens airport was built by a German company who won the tender, the Metro by a a consortium of foreign firms.

Can this be manipulated? of course it can the name of the Co can be a give away or previous contacts can ensure that GC companies win all the tenders by giving inside information to fix prices. Anything and everything is possible and the GCs are experts at pushing us out of the picture, this "phobia" as you put it derives from past experiences and not out of thin air.

[Nikitas]

VP,

You honestly think that you can fiddle about with companies like Hochtig and Wimpey and get away with it for very long? These guys are the big fish in the pond. they rule construction. The Rio bridge in Greece is one of the biggest civil engineering projects in the history of modern Greece, the big boys won the tender, one French, one British (Wimpey) and one Japanese company got the tender. Greek companies had to accept sub contracts.

Since May 2004 it is a whole different ball game. The tricks of the locals will always be tried on, but only in small things, like minor civil service appointments because that is a Cypriot tradition.

Now let us put in another way. What is there to stop TCs buying shares in major companies doing works in Cyprus, shares which are available in stock exchanges throughout Europe, anonymously (which is why these companies are called Societes Anonymes in French) and thus profiting from works all over Cyprus, including the GC part? Nothing at all! This is how Europe works. And it is a violation of EU law to try and get the names of shareholders of Societes Anonymes.

[Viewpoint]

VP,

You honestly think that you can fiddle about with companies like Hochtig and Wimpey and get away with it for very long? These guys are the big fish in the pond. they rule construction. The Rio bridge in Greece is one of the biggest civil engineering projects in the history of modern Greece, the big boys won the tender, one French, one British (Wimpey) and one Japanese company got the tender. Greek companies had to accept sub contracts.

Since May 2004 it is a whole different ball game. The tricks of the locals will always be tried on, but only in small things, like minor civil service appointments because that is a Cypriot tradition.

Now let us put in another way. What is there to stop TCs buying shares in major companies doing works in Cyprus, shares which are available in stock exchanges throughout Europe, anonymously (which is why these companies are called Societes Anonymes in French) and thus profiting from works all over Cyprus, including the GC part? Nothing at all! This is how Europe works. And it is a violation of EU law to try and get the names of shareholders of Societes Anonymes.

You obviously under estimate your own people which is very dangerous, the problem is not with international tenders but local awards, or decisions that would stop us from trading with with our biggest business partner Turkey, this would of course effect our economy more heavily than yours. A tax or new entry requirements of Turkish holiday makers coming into the north state could also be a sensitive issue which would again curb income coming into the north. Apart from these there are other social issues which ingenious GCs will try to manipulate in order to get the upper hand as they have always done, why not allow safeguards which will deter anyone from attempting such acts, what have you got to fear? the more GCs resist the more suspicious we become and the more safeguards we require. We cannot leave anything to chance or goodwill as we have experienced this is always open to manipulation and exploitation.

[Piratis]

VP, you are the one who does not want to share equally. You want each TC to have 4.5 times more voting power than each GC, somehting which is undemocratic and a racist discrimination.

Equality means for each citizen to be equal to another, regardless of his ethnic background, religion or anything else. If some citizen is given more voting power because he speaks Turkish and he is Muslim, that is called inequality

I want 2 equal communities where we can say no on sensative issues, whats wrong with that, what have you to fear? or have you got hidden agendas?

The equality should be among citizens, not among groups of citizens. Citizens should be equal to each other regardless of their ethnic background, language or anything else. Anything else is racist.

If you want veto power on certain issues thats a different issue. Say on what issues you want to have veto power and we can discuss them. I didn't say no to this. What I don't accept is the inequality among the citizens.

Inequality amongst citizen is far from our aim, I'm glad that you have at least acknowledged that alternative solutions can be developed to ensure that TCs will not be brushed to one side especially on issues which will effect one community more negatively than the other.

VP, if there is no forced segregation, then the issues that can affect TCs differently than GCs are those of language, religion, culture and history. If there is somehting else tell me, and if it is indeed somehting that can affect TCs differently then I would be glad to add it to the list.

Economy, stopping trade with Turkey or enforcing fines and penalties, demanding GC partners in every new business deal, selling of land to only GC buyers, discrimination of government contracts to GC firms, blocking tourists from Turkey, banning casinos etc, there are many ways which GC if let to do will exploit to cause the north economic hardship.

VP, the northern part of Cyprus belongs by 80% to Greek Cypriots (just like the south, east and west). Why would they want to cause any economic hardship on any part of their own country?

Again you are thinking in terms of segregation and division. Here we are talking about a true solution where people will not be segregated, and the whole Cyprus will be the country of all Cypriots.

stopping trade with Turkey or enforcing fines and penalties

And why would we want to stop trade with Turkey?

demanding GC partners in every new business deal

That is again EU laws, which are above Cyprus laws.

selling of land to only GC buyers

State land is sold to nobody. Private land is owned by citizens and each citizen can sell his own land wherever he wants.

discrimination of government contracts to GC firms

Government contracts can be reviewed by all sides. I don't have a problem if you want the TC community to have the power to send each case it wants for an independent review. The issue with goverment contracts is not a TC/GC one. It is far more general.

blocking tourists from Turkey

Why would we want that? If you had tourists from Greece would you block them and their money because they are Greek??

banning casinos

That is again a general issue, not GC/TC one.

[Viewpoint]

VP, you are the one who does not want to share equally. You want each TC to have 4.5 times more voting power than each GC, somehting which is undemocratic and a racist discrimination.

Equality means for each citizen to be equal to another, regardless of his ethnic background, religion or anything else. If some citizen is given more voting power because he speaks Turkish and he is Muslim, that is called inequality

I want 2 equal communities where we can say no on sensative issues, whats wrong with that, what have you to fear? or have you got hidden agendas?

The equality should be among citizens, not among groups of citizens. Citizens should be equal to each other regardless of their ethnic background, language or anything else. Anything else is racist.

If you want veto power on certain issues thats a different issue. Say on what issues you want to have veto power and we can discuss them. I didn't say no to this. What I don't accept is the inequality among the citizens.

Inequality amongst citizen is far from our aim, I'm glad that you have at least acknowledged that alternative solutions can be developed to ensure that TCs will not be brushed to one side especially on issues which will effect one community more negatively than the other.

VP, if there is no forced segregation, then the issues that can affect TCs differently than GCs are those of language, religion, culture and history. If there is somehting else tell me, and if it is indeed somehting that can affect TCs differently then I would be glad to add it to the list.

Economy, stopping trade with Turkey or enforcing fines and penalties, demanding GC partners in every new business deal, selling of land to only GC buyers, discrimination of government contracts to GC firms, blocking tourists from Turkey, banning casinos etc, there are many ways which GC if let to do will exploit to cause the north economic hardship.

VP, the northern part of Cyprus belongs by 80% to Greek Cypriots (just like the south, east and west). Why would they want to cause any economic hardship on any part of their own country?

Again you are thinking in terms of segregation and division. Here we are talking about a true solution where people will not be segregated, and the whole Cyprus will be the country of all Cypriots.

stopping trade with Turkey or enforcing fines and penalties

And why would we want to stop trade with Turkey?

demanding GC partners in every new business deal

That is again EU laws, which are above Cyprus laws.

selling of land to only GC buyers

State land is sold to nobody. Private land is owned by citizens and each citizen can sell his own land wherever he wants.

discrimination of government contracts to GC firms

Government contracts can be reviewed by all sides. I don't have a problem if you want the TC community to have the power to send each case it wants for an independent review. The issue with goverment contracts is not a TC/GC one. It is far more general.

blocking tourists from Turkey

Why would we want that? If you had tourists from Greece would you block them and their money because they are Greek??

banning casinos

That is again a general issue, not GC/TC one.

Your answers do not instill much confidence and are rather hit and miss as the issues I have raised off the top of my head which are open to manipulation to squeeze TCs out of business and the put the northern economy into dire straights allowing GC business to prosper in the north and finally take over drawing in a bigger popuation and thus taking control. There are many ways to skin a cat and you guys are experts so we have to take every precaution that will not allow you the opportunity to use the the system to push us out.

[Piratis]

What is the "northern economy" VP?

You are still thinking in terms of division and segregation.

A truly united Cyprus would mean one Cyprus for all Cypriots. Not northern for TCs and southern for GCs. Thats the whole point of unification isn't it?

[Viewpoint]

What is the "northern economy" VP?

You are still thinking in terms of division and segregation.

A truly united Cyprus would mean one Cyprus for all Cypriots. Not northern for TCs and southern for GCs. Thats the whole point of unification isn't it?

You arent really addressing my issues here, the northern state is where the majority of TCs will live, if manipulative measures are taken to effect the TCs more than the GCs these will squeeze us out, what will you do to stop us being brushed to one side not only economically but also power sharing wise? what if we are faced with Akritas 2 backed by the EU where our sharing rights will be watered down because the GCs have twisted and manipulated in other words blackmailed the EU into giving them what they want? We need safeguards to guarantee you will not do the above in any shape way or form if you have no intention then you should have no objections but quite the opposite you do not want to even entertain safeguards which makes us even more suspisious than we already are. I hope you try to understand our viewpoint and address our concerns otherwise no TC in their right mind will take a big leap of faith into the arms of a solution where there are dangers and future pitfalls.