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POLITICAL EQUALITY IS CRUCIAL FOR TURKISH CYPRIOTS

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Bananiot » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:23 am

Piratis

And what this "survey" showed exactly? Where are the questions asked and its results?


You have a nerve asking the above question Piratis. Do you remember your own pseudo scientific questionnaire on "acceptionism" "rejectionism"?

Metron Analysis is a serious firm and it did many surveys during the Papadopoulos era and I do not remember Piratis questioning their questinnaires when they showed high approval rates for Papadopoulos.

Times change, do they not?

Piratis

Of course we would accept a BBF solution that would have the right content, the right land distribution and the right power sharing. Not just anything labeled as "BBF" though, and this is something shown with the referendum which is better than any survey.


The King is dead, long leave the King!
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Postby Oracle » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:43 am

My take on Piratis' "Poll" was that it was set up precisely to show that you can attain any answer you wish by how you frame your question .... So it was a useful exercise!

And that is precisely why Bananiot should provide the survey he refers to instead of making such pseudo-responses as above.
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:48 am

Good for you Oracle, do you know of anything else that goes on in the mind of Piratis?
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:45 am

Bananiot wrote:It is really frustrating to hear people talk about the form of the solution as if we are the only player in this issue. Some people seriously believe that we can get anything we ask, as long as we remain steadfast. This shows gross ignorance on how this world is run.


It is very frustrating to hear how people like yourself incinuate that President X has agreed to a BBF arising from a virgin birth of 2 politically equal states. There is no evdence whatsoever that X will be accepting the virgin birth idea. Perhaps your comments are wishful thinking on your part but it is definately not something Cypriots will accept in majority.

A disriminatory solution towards the GCs will ineviatably lead to another tragedy down the track and perhaps permanent partition. I am amazed that you support a virgin birth BBF as the consequences can and will be severe, as history will inevitably repeat itselt since a GC vote will equal 0.2 of a TC vote.

You also avoided my question concerning the SBAs. President X made comments recently that if a virgin birth materialises, then the 1959 Zurich Agreement which provided the UK with 2 SBAs, will also be null and void. I can tell you that the British will not be too happy with this scenario. Do you think that the British will oppose the virgin birth idea and promote the RoC evolution model?

Here is some background to help you answer this complex question:


The British territories on Cyprus

Another fascinating revelation, only hinted at until now, was that Britain wished to give up its territories on Cyprus (the "Sovereign Base Areas") and the retained sites dotted throughout the island. As early as 1964, a secret FO paper stated that the bases and retained sites depended in large measure on Greek Cypriot co-operation, and that a "Guantanamo position" was out of the question. The paper added: "Our sovereign rights in the SBAs and treaty rights in Republic territory will be considered increasingly irksome by the Greek Cypriots and will be regarded as increasingly anachronistic by world public opinion". In 1970, the FCO was admitting that the bases were hostages to Cypriot good will, while in 1974 it was stating that the bases were an embarrassment. More significantly, in 1975, a secret paper stated that a solution would be difficult as long as Britain retained a physical presence in the bases, and that British strategic interests in Cyprus were now minimal. Extraordinarily, the paper admitted: "A

Although our own preferred policy is for a complete British military withdrawal from Cyprus, we recognise that we cannot do so at present, given the global importance of working with the Americans." In this connexion, a senior US official even assured the British that the US would be able to finance the bases, secretly if necessary.

Dr William Mallinson, a former British diplomat, teaches British history, culture and literature at the Ionian University, Corfu and is the author of Cyprus, A Modern History, I. B. Tauris, London and New York


Perhaps President X is being quite clever in stirring the interests of the superpowers in order to destroy the virgin birth model.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:32 pm

Bananiot wrote:Back to the basics. This is the declaration after the Christofias - Talat meeting:

The Leaders today had genuine and fruitful discussions, and reviewed the results achieved pursuant to the 21st of March agreement. They reaffirmed their commitment to bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with political equality, as defined by relevant Security Council resolutions. This partnership will have a Federal Government with a single international personality, as well as a Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and a Greek Cypriot Constituent State, which will be of equal status. They instructed their representatives to examine, within 15 days, the results of the technical committees. The Representatives will consider civilian and military confidence – building measures. They will also pursue the opening of Limnitis/Yeşilirmak and other crossing points. The Leaders decided to come together again in the second half of June to make a new assessment.


Solution means adopting the above principles. There is no other way about it. We have discussed this so many times. Now, we should wait and see if the Cypriot people (both sides of the divide) can say yes to a new plan encompassing these principles.


This does not seem to be the case. President X does not support a BBF based on a virgin birth of 2 politically equal states.

AKEL deputy Nicos Katsourides, who was yesterday asked to comment on the fact that 28 per cent of the public supported a two-state solution to the Cyprus problem, said this was worrying but added that in last year’s polls, this percentage was higher.

“We need to fight this wrong impression, which some of our fellow Cypriots have that the two-state solution is a viable solution,” said Katsourides.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008


Bananiot, you seem to be contradicting the political party which you say you support. As you can see, the statement made by Nicos Katsourides is very clear in rejecting the virgin birth BBF as a viable solution.

I think you have some explaining to do.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:44 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Why don't you give us some examples VP, where the majority voted as a "block" against a minority, when all the political parties colluded with each other to bring harm to one ethnicity over another in this day and age and particularly in the EU club. In the first place, such a move would be against the constitution if such a move would be against someones Human Rights as well as other constitutional rights, so stop blowing hot air in the wind VP. You just hate the idea of True Democracy for Cyprus, plain and simple.


You still choose to avoid answering the real question can the GCs block vote in their own party? a simple YES or NO will do. If you expect us to take this risk then you are more crazy than I thought you were.


I'm not avoiding anything. If anyone is avoiding in answering questions, it's you. You make this generic scenario about a
"block veto" by the GC's, but you don't give us any examples what it is that they will be blocking that will be detrimental to the TC's, that is going to violate their civil, Democratic and Human Rights, as well as all the other rights that you may ask for, that will be added to the constitution. Therefore VP, you have no idea what it is that you want or that you are afraid of. You are just making noise to be heard, but you are not telling us anything. So don't blame me for ignoring your concerns when you are not telling us what they really are, which brings me back to my comment, and that is, you are not willing to live in a True Democratic society in the country of Cyprus because the numerical numbers of the TC's are less than the GC'c. Do you have a country where all the ethnic groups numerical numbers are the same. I don't think so.

The only thing you are worried about is, that if the relationship between Turkey and Cyprus remains unfriendly after a settlement is reached, then Cyprus may not want to trade with Turkey and that the GC's might vote as a block in the Parliament to make it happen..

We can make Union with another country illegal and have it in the constitution, therefore no referendum can take place, so that there are no dangers of the GC's voting as a "block". I think you will find almost all GC's will welcome this law.

Did I miss anything anything else.??


You are still avoiding the question, this leads us to be very suspiscious about why you will not give a YES NO answer, Can they block vote?
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Postby Magnus » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:45 pm

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why can't they devise a system where the Turkish Cypriots get a proportional vote in issues affecting the whole of Cyprus, but an equal vote in decisions that specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community?

For example, government elections are set up on the principle of '1 man, 1 vote'. People vote for whomever they support.

When the government makes a decision that will specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community, then power is split 50/50 between the government and something like a Council of Turkish Cypriots selected by the TC community to represent their interests.

Again, sorry if this is a stupid question.
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:44 pm

Magnus wrote:Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why can't they devise a system where the Turkish Cypriots get a proportional vote in issues affecting the whole of Cyprus, but an equal vote in decisions that specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community?

For example, government elections are set up on the principle of '1 man, 1 vote'. People vote for whomever they support.

When the government makes a decision that will specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community, then power is split 50/50 between the government and something like a Council of Turkish Cypriots selected by the TC community to represent their interests.

Because there's no such thing as issues affecting ONLY the TCs or the GCs. I challenge anyone to come up with something that fits that description. Even 100% Muslim issues such as those on circumcision for example, will be subject to Human Rights complications by the EU.
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Postby roseandchan » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:47 pm

i'm interested in how many settlers you have in the roc, as part of the e.u you have lots of non cypriot people so whats the difference with settlers from turkey. you have lots of indian and chinese settlers i see every week when i go shopping. how many brits do you have ?
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:53 pm

roseandchan wrote:i'm interested in how many settlers you have in the roc, as part of the e.u you have lots of non cypriot people so whats the difference with settlers from turkey. you have lots of indian and chinese settlers i see every week when i go shopping. how many brits do you have ?

Go look up the definition of "settlers" and then come back and ask that question again if needed... :lol:
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