Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis

And what this "survey" showed exactly? Where are the questions asked and its results?

You have a nerve asking the above question Piratis. Do you remember your own pseudo scientific questionnaire on "acceptionism" "rejectionism"?

Metron Analysis is a serious firm and it did many surveys during the Papadopoulos era and I do not remember Piratis questioning their questinnaires when they showed high approval rates for Papadopoulos.

Times change, do they not?

Piratis

Of course we would accept a BBF solution that would have the right content, the right land distribution and the right power sharing. Not just anything labeled as "BBF" though, and this is something shown with the referendum which is better than any survey.

The King is dead, long leave the King!

So WHERE is this survey?? Why you have a problem to show to us what the exact questions and the exact results have been?

[Magnus]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but why can't they devise a system where the Turkish Cypriots get a proportional vote in issues affecting the whole of Cyprus, but an equal vote in decisions that specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community?

For example, government elections are set up on the principle of '1 man, 1 vote'. People vote for whomever they support.

When the government makes a decision that will specifically affect the Turkish Cypriot community, then power is split 50/50 between the government and something like a Council of Turkish Cypriots selected by the TC community to represent their interests.

Because there's no such thing as issues affecting ONLY the TCs or the GCs. I challenge anyone to come up with something that fits that description. Even 100% Muslim issues such as those on circumcision for example, will be subject to Human Rights complications by the EU.

Thanks for the reply GR. The reason I asked this question is because I've seen other threads where people are saying TCs should have equal representation because they don't want GCs overriding them in issues that affect the TC community.

I thought they might be referring to things such as Turkish schools or what might be the curriculum in schools that have pupils from both GC and TC backgrounds. I know that the interpretation of Cypriot history lessons might be a source of contention, and thought that maybe in this case the TC Council and government would work together.

Never mind, I can see it's not as clear-cut as that. I must have misinterpreted some of the other posts.

[Rebel.Without.A.Pause]

Magnus, I think your idea had waaaay too much common sense for Cypriots.

The Turkish Cypriots dont really care about their warped version of 'political equality' (not that many knows what the phrase means - its just a common terminology for them now), its all abuot one upmanship for them. A good idea such as yours probably wouldnt be accepted because it means the Turkish Cypriots losing some kind of petty battle.

[bill cobbett]

i'm interested in how many settlers you have in the roc, as part of the e.u you have lots of non cypriot people so whats the difference with settlers from turkey. you have lots of indian and chinese settlers i see every week when i go shopping. how many brits do you have ?

Hi R&C. The differences to my mind are very simple.

After the '74 invasion, the "settlers" were (and probably still are) encouraged by the RoT to settle in the north in a foul and deliberate policy to alter the demographics in Cy to the RoT's advantage and in many, many cases these people were allowed to set up home in other people's homes, often on the strength of dodgy kochans. All of these are clear violations of the Geneva Convention and other international laws.

So there is a world of difference between this and the legitimate and perfectly legal immigration and settlement that you may see in the Free Areas where people have come to live and work in a thriving economy or who may have bought holiday or retirement homes in a sunnier clime.

[Kikapu]

Why don't you give us some examples VP, where the majority voted as a "block" against a minority, when all the political parties colluded with each other to bring harm to one ethnicity over another in this day and age and particularly in the EU club. In the first place, such a move would be against the constitution if such a move would be against someones Human Rights as well as other constitutional rights, so stop blowing hot air in the wind VP. You just hate the idea of True Democracy for Cyprus, plain and simple.

You still choose to avoid answering the real question can the GCs block vote in their own party? a simple YES or NO will do. If you expect us to take this risk then you are more crazy than I thought you were.

I'm not avoiding anything. If anyone is avoiding in answering questions, it's you. You make this generic scenario about a
"block veto" by the GC's, but you don't give us any examples what it is that they will be blocking that will be detrimental to the TC's, that is going to violate their civil, Democratic and Human Rights, as well as all the other rights that you may ask for, that will be added to the constitution. Therefore VP, you have no idea what it is that you want or that you are afraid of. You are just making noise to be heard, but you are not telling us anything. So don't blame me for ignoring your concerns when you are not telling us what they really are, which brings me back to my comment, and that is, you are not willing to live in a True Democratic society in the country of Cyprus because the numerical numbers of the TC's are less than the GC'c. Do you have a country where all the ethnic groups numerical numbers are the same. I don't think so.

The only thing you are worried about is, that if the relationship between Turkey and Cyprus remains unfriendly after a settlement is reached, then Cyprus may not want to trade with Turkey and that the GC's might vote as a block in the Parliament to make it happen..

We can make Union with another country illegal and have it in the constitution, therefore no referendum can take place, so that there are no dangers of the GC's voting as a "block". I think you will find almost all GC's will welcome this law.

Did I miss anything anything else.??

You are still avoiding the question, this leads us to be very suspiscious about why you will not give a YES NO answer, Can they block vote?

That's because there isn't a YES or NO answer to something that does not exists. You are not giving us any examples. Why are you afraid to give us some examples that are worrying you. You are acting more suspicious than any one else on the forum. If it's against Human Rights, Democratic rights or any of the Constitutional rights of the TC's, there won't be any vote allowed to take place if it's in violation of those rights, because what ever measure is put up for a vote, it will effect every Cypriot and not just the TC's, since every citizen is equal. So stop wasting my time and give me an example.

I'll give you an example and see what happens.

An initiative is passed by the parliament to make the TC's a second class citizens in Cyprus. Right away that ruling will be challenged by the TC's and the GC's to the supreme court to strike it down. Let say the whole supreme court is racist and they allow it to go forward. Then this will be challenged at the ECHR, and they will strike it down, unless of course you do not believe the ECHR to do the right thing. It will not come to a referendum to even give it a chance to become a "block vote".

So VP, give us your worse case scenario that will get a "Block vote" and lets talk about it.

You just want to create a "buggy man" and not talk honestly. You want a partition, therefore you will do and say anything to get it. I understand that, so keep it up, but without examples to tell us how any "block" voting is going to be detrimental to the TC's, you are on a losing battle on this one.

[Bananiot]

Paphitis, have you really read what I said about virgin birth a couple of pages ago in this thread? I do not think you have. Also, where did you get the idea that I support AKEL? Everybody in this forum knows that I support EDI, it is no secret.

[roseandchan]

bill what i was getting at was that both sides are such an ethnic mix now that i don't rearly see where the problem is. whats done is done. i hear what your saying but being thrown out of your home is not good for anyone, all cypriots should know better than anyone. the turkish people on this side get a hard time from the cypriots all of the time. most of my friends in the village want them to go back to turkey. where are they supposed to go back to? many have lived here for many years, and generation of turkish families are here. most work very hard. sending them back would be like ethnic cleansing, how can anyone think thats ok?

[Oracle]

Sounds to me like someone is trying to question the ethics of residing in the north ...

A long way to go to getting it right yet: not that the EC should help them soon ... and I am going to get a front seat to hear all roseandchan's pathetic excuses ... whilst trying to stop myself shouting "We told them so ..."

[Kifeas]

It was revealed today that the racist TC leadership is proposing for the federal government a rotating presidency among a cabinet of 6 ministers, two of which must be TCs. In other words, every 10 months we will have a different president for the federal State. The funny thing is that even though the TC community is only the 18% of the population, they want the presidency for 33% of the time, in other words almost twice as long as their share. The racist TC leadership wants every TC member (presumably because they are Turks and thus in their view they are a superior race to that of the Greeks,) to have almost twice as much probability of being the presidents, than their GC counterparts.

The GC side is proposing a president and a vice president, which will come from different communities, and if the president is a GC and the vice president is a TC (like the 1960 constitution,) the two will be shifting roles in one out of the 5 years of the government’s term, i.e. 4/5 of the time the president will be a GC (80%,) and 1/5 of the time it will be a TC (20%.) The racist TC leadership rejects this idea, and says they are doing us a favor for not demanding the presidency on a 50:50 basis instead! Now tell me if this leadership wants a solution?

[umit07]

Kifeas where did you hear this crap? I only just heard this from you. I for one accept what you say is being offered by the GC's . But I don't think they would offer such a formula anyway. Do you find it OK?