Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

actually jokes aside then what you are saying is that your a turk in which case you are an occupier of Cyprus so get the hell out and stop crying isolation

The same goes for you.

[Kikapu]

I like many other TCs will continue to support what we believe is right, we obviously will never see eye to eye and therefore have to admit that we can never agree a solution as you wish to impose what you believe is right what is not good for me or other TCs. I am prepared to take my chaces rather that become a minority in a GC state how much you try to delay the process this will be the end result, as much as I love TCs and the TRNC and it will break my heart I would rather live among Brits as a minority than GCs. You and your likes will never understand where I and people like me are coming from.

VP,

Let me give you a very direct and stark warning, that unless the TC's decide NOW to become part of the Cypriot society under a True Democracy and True Federation to have a place on the island for their future, anything else will see the disappearance of the TC's from the island of Cyprus for good and eventually, the whole island will become "Greek". I have no doubts about this. Things will start to get bad for the north economically if these talks fail, because soon thereafter, you will see the north being challenged legally from all angles to destroy what little economy you have there right now, using the recent ECJ ruling as a base. This will become a major burden for Turkey to carry and since you rely way too much on Turkey to be always there for the TC's, things will turn ugly. That's way too much reliance on anyone for everything for the survival of the TC community, because Turkey also has other interests for her future which may or may not include the TC's in their plans.!

[Viewpoint]

I like many other TCs will continue to support what we believe is right, we obviously will never see eye to eye and therefore have to admit that we can never agree a solution as you wish to impose what you believe is right what is not good for me or other TCs. I am prepared to take my chaces rather that become a minority in a GC state how much you try to delay the process this will be the end result, as much as I love TCs and the TRNC and it will break my heart I would rather live among Brits as a minority than GCs. You and your likes will never understand where I and people like me are coming from.

VP,

Let me give you a very direct and stark warning, that unless the TC's decide NOW to become part of the Cypriot society under a True Democracy and True Federation to have a place on the island for their future, anything else will see the disappearance of the TC's from the island of Cyprus for good and eventually, the whole island will become "Greek". I have no doubts about this. Things will start to get bad for the north economically if these talks fail, because soon thereafter, you will see the north being challenged legally from all angles to destroy what little economy you have there right now, using the recent ECJ ruling as a base. This will become a major burden for Turkey to carry and since you rely way too much on Turkey to be always there for the TC's, things will turn ugly. That's way too much reliance on anyone for everything for the survival of the TC community, because Turkey also has other interests for her future which may or may not include the TC's in their plans.!

Who are you to warn me? please refrain from such arrogance as it only breeds and perpetuates negativity. Kikapu you have yet to reaize many stark facts which stare you in the face and I continually repeat but you choose to ignore. The doom and gloom crap you and your kind peddle just dont cut it because we have been hearing the same shit for 49 years, TCs have lived through much tougher times. The fact remains that TCs decided in 1974 to part ways with GCs and the only thing that would alter their viewpoint is union under something similar to the AP which is not acceptable to the GCs. Your belief that TCs carry this tourch for "Cypriotism" is unfounded and died in 1963. TCs have over the past 35 years become more and more Turkish than Cypriot the new generation Turkish Cypriots have changed, they know nothing of the south and dont give a rats arse about GCs and understand the main aim is to take control of the whole island using their numerical advantage to dominate and discriminate, so this arguement that we will dissapear is nonsense because our population of new generation TCs is on the increase and in 20 years time we will outnumber the GCs, who will at that time be begging for agreed partition or union which will the end of GCs as the new generation 1 million strong TCs absorb the GCs as well. You and people like you always say we are part of Turkey when it suits and when it does not you change direction saying they will dump us at the first chance like it is a threat. Can Turkey dump the black sea region? NO, it will never dump the TRNC unless we want to be "dumped" can they stop finanacial support for the city of Izmir? NO, they will never stop financial support for the TRNC eitherş so please try to use a bit more common sense and understand that this is not going to happen and try to concentrate on trying to find solutions in order to create a structure/solution that both sides can support otherwise like me more and more people on both sides of the divide will become disillusioned and opt for agreed partition.

[boulio]

opt for agreed partition

if its to deal with the likes of you absolutley 82-18% ok?

[Viewpoint]

opt for agreed partition

if its to deal with the likes of you absolutley 82-18% ok?

I personally would take the 18% but there are issues to be resolved that will effect this final figure. Do you accept these issues to be dealth with by an independent team of experts to judge and rule on land disputes claims etc?

[Kikapu]

I like many other TCs will continue to support what we believe is right, we obviously will never see eye to eye and therefore have to admit that we can never agree a solution as you wish to impose what you believe is right what is not good for me or other TCs. I am prepared to take my chaces rather that become a minority in a GC state how much you try to delay the process this will be the end result, as much as I love TCs and the TRNC and it will break my heart I would rather live among Brits as a minority than GCs. You and your likes will never understand where I and people like me are coming from.

VP,

Let me give you a very direct and stark warning, that unless the TC's decide NOW to become part of the Cypriot society under a True Democracy and True Federation to have a place on the island for their future, anything else will see the disappearance of the TC's from the island of Cyprus for good and eventually, the whole island will become "Greek". I have no doubts about this. Things will start to get bad for the north economically if these talks fail, because soon thereafter, you will see the north being challenged legally from all angles to destroy what little economy you have there right now, using the recent ECJ ruling as a base. This will become a major burden for Turkey to carry and since you rely way too much on Turkey to be always there for the TC's, things will turn ugly. That's way too much reliance on anyone for everything for the survival of the TC community, because Turkey also has other interests for her future which may or may not include the TC's in their plans.!

Who are you to warn me? please refrain from such arrogance as it only breeds and perpetuates negativity.

As I've said, you have been warned. What you do with is, is no concern of mine.!

Kikapu you have yet to reaize many stark facts which stare you in the face and I continually repeat but you choose to ignore. The doom and gloom crap you and your kind peddle just dont cut it because we have been hearing the same shit for 49 years, TCs have lived through much tougher times.

The times have changed, but you obviously refuse to see what has happened since 2004. This is the date you should be looking at from now on as to how this date started to effect the situations on the ground to the GC's direction. I'm in fact talking about the immense advantage the RoC have gotten from their EU membership. Before 2004, all you had to do was keep the doors close to the south and just live in the north under the Turkish Rule, but now all those advantages that the north and Turkey had over the south has evaporated, and with passing of time, the advantages can only move towards the GC's way. Look and see how much the north has achieved since 1974 to 2004 and look at how much the south has achieved in the same period, and if that wasn't bad enough, look at what the south has achieved since 2004 and what has the north achieved at the same time. For the GC's, there is no denying, that 2004 was the year that turned everything around for them. Had the Annan Plan was accepted, then that accomplishment would have gone to the TC's as a major achievement. It did not happen and nothing very much since either.

The fact remains that TCs decided in 1974 to part ways with GCs and the only thing that would alter their viewpoint is union under something similar to the AP which is not acceptable to the GCs.

That may have been the case, but you forgot something when you did that, and that was, that you took someone else’s property to make it your own and you were only able to keep it's the rightful owners away by force, but since 2004, you can't even keep the legal owners away from their properties any longer. They will use their legal rights to make the lives of those living in the north uncomfortable with time, which will be worse then before, if in fact you do not want to seek a Fair and Just solution, which you obviously do not if you think the AP is the way to go to finds a solution. That proposal was dealt with 5 years ago and look who has gained the most from the AP days, so stands the reasons as to why the future will bring more gains to the GC's and further loses to the TC's without a solution based on True Democracy and True Federation. If the TC's think they can negotiate something better, then show us what they are, otherwise, expect the worse for the TC community with time.

Your belief that TCs carry this tourch for "Cypriotism" is unfounded and died in 1963. TCs have over the past 35 years become more and more Turkish than Cypriot the new generation Turkish Cypriots have changed, they know nothing of the south and dont give a rats arse about GCs and understand the main aim is to take control of the whole island using their numerical advantage to dominate and discriminate, so this arguement that we will dissapear is nonsense

Cypriotism has not disappeared, since you yourself use it to identify yourself with, like all other Cypriots. You do call yourself Turkish Cypriot, do you not.? Why don't you call yourself a Turk if you do not think you are a Cypriot any longer. If the young TC generation do not know the rest of their country of Cyprus, it was a deliberate attempt by the Fascists such as Denktash and others to keep it that way, which I'm sure you have done the same with your kids. The Fascist have robbed their childrens rightful place in the whole of Cyprus where their ansestaors are from and not the "gecegondu" of the "trnc" without any foundations, other that using brute force to claim the north as their new "country" in Cyprus. You may be able to brainwash the young, but you cannot wash away history. Lets hope the new generation will not hate the fascist too much for denying them their whole country of Cyprus.

because our population of new generation TCs is on the increase and in 20 years time we will outnumber the GCs, who will at that time be begging for agreed partition or union which will the end of GCs as the new generation 1 million strong TCs absorb the GCs as well.

I hate to remind you who is the official government is in Cyprus and also who decides who is a Cypriot and who is a illegal alien in Cyprus. Officially, there are only about 90,000 TC's in Cyprus as of now, which it should have been 200,000 based on the 1960's 4:1 ratio. That is a 55% drop and the GC's numbers have gone up 100% to 800,000. Do you not see what is going on with this picture.? Even children born to TC mother from a Turk fathers are not considered to be a TC child unless it is agreed on during these settlements, therefore, don't look for added illegal aliens to somehow replace the Cypriots from the island, because that's how the settlers will always be seen as, illegal aliens. It just means there will be more foreigners, not more citizens in the north. With the recent ECJ rulings, you be lucky to find enough jobs for all those living in the north, let alone having another fictitious 1 million illegals on the island from Turkey. The only thing the settlers are replacing through OSMOSIS are the TC's which will see them become extinct. That's the way nature works, that the strong replaces the weak, and the TC's have become the weakest community on the island, so, they will be "eaten" by the settlers, no matter how much you want to claim that you are finally going back to your ancestral people.

This will in fact will be part of the process of the island of Cyprus of becoming pure "Greek" since in time, all they will see in the north only as illegal Aliens, and if and when another war breaks out, the GC's will be fighting the Turks and no longer the TC's. It changes the equation very much altogether. But lets not talk about war that no body really wants, so lets talk about Turkey trading the north by pulling her people out for the right top be in the EU. I did say her people, since you would have by then abdicated your Cypriotness and the True TC's numbers will be so low by then, Turkey will just take you with her to be with your ancestral people in Turkey, a dream come true for people like you, but a very broken heart for the remaining True TC's. Time does not stand still. All you have to do, is look at advances made by the north and the south since 2004 and see how the trajectory of those advances are. The south's progress trajectory is heading up as the trajectory progress of the north, is going down. You don't need to be a mathematician genius to know the difference of what's going UP and what's going DOWN. It is self explanatory.

You and people like you always say we are part of Turkey when it suits and when it does not you change direction saying they will dump us at the first chance like it is a threat.

The choice will be for Turkey to make and you won't have any say in the matter as time goes by, because most of the TC's will by then would have already become "comatose" and will not be able to function on their own. They will be lead by the nose to what ever deal Turkey will cut with the GC's. 2004 has changed the game plan, but you are still playing the pre 2004 game plan.

Can Turkey dump the black sea region? NO

Because it is part of their country, therefore they cannot and will not.

it will never dump the TRNC unless we want to be "dumped"

As in all "Dumper" and "Dumpee" satiations, it is the "Dumper" who makes the decision to dump and not the "Dumpee”. You will be the "Dumpee". You will be too "comatose" to even know what day of the week it will be, let alone make any decisions on what you want and not want, because you will not be thinking as a True TC anymore. You would have become a Turk through OSMOSIS, therefore you will do what ever Turkey will tell her people to do for the best interest of your motherland, Turkey. You will not say NO to your motherland, would you, VP.?

can they stop finanacial support for the city of Izmir? NO,

Izmir is part of her country, therefore the answer is, NO.!

they will never stop financial support for the TRNC eitherş so please try to use a bit more common sense and understand that this is not going to happen

Not as long as Turkey seen the occupying force in the north, which is their obligation to pay for you. It is not because Turkey wants to pay for it, but has no other choice. Why do you think Turkey wants International embargoes lifted, so that she does not have to pay for anything so that you can pay for everything yourself while she still remains on the island.

and try to concentrate on trying to find solutions in order to create a structure/solution that both sides can support otherwise like me more and more people on both sides of the divide will become disillusioned and opt for agreed partition.

I'm doing my part to make suggestions for a solution that will be respect Democracy, Human Rights and International Laws which this tread is dedicated to but I have yet to see anything from you other than your support for the AP which was contrary to the above principle I have mentioned. If you want to help the TC's, there can only be one solution that protects their place on the island of Cyprus, and it is those principles as I've described. Anything else, it will mean their extinction as TC's who would have been turned into becoming a Turks through osmosis, which may be what you want, but you would have also helped turn the island of Cyprus in to a "Greek" island, just because of the event that took place in 2004, and ever increasingly since.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu well done, your command of the English language is super and allows you to manipulate, ignore and twist issues to a degree that even I nearly believe what you are saying. But you forget one important fact that I am a Turkish Cypriot who live here in the TRNC, so I live and see the developments as they happen whereas you are a text book doctor who has read the books but has never performed and operation.

Lets start and would you do me the favour of actuallu absorbing what I have taken my time to write and explain to you.

As I've said, you have been warned. What you do with is, is no concern of mine.!

As you have no right to warn me then I will totally ignore your known arrogance.

The times have changed, but you obviously refuse to see what has happened since 2004. This is the date you should be looking at from now on as to how this date started to effect the situations on the ground to the GC's direction. I'm in fact talking about the immense advantage the RoC have gotten from their EU membership. Before 2004, all you had to do was keep the doors close to the south and just live in the north under the Turkish Rule, but now all those advantages that the north and Turkey had over the south has evaporated, and with passing of time, the advantages can only move towards the GC's way. Look and see how much the north has achieved since 1974 to 2004 and look at how much the south has achieved in the same period, and if that wasn't bad enough, look at what the south has achieved since 2004 and what has the north achieved at the same time. For the GC's, there is no denying, that 2004 was the year that turned everything around for them. Had the Annan Plan was accepted, then that accomplishment would have gone to the TC's as a major achievement. It did not happen and nothing very much since either.

I look at the effect the changes have had on the TRNC over the past 5 years as I do not care about the south Cyprus, they can have the best economy in the world it does not mean I want a part of it. I have tried to explain to you before that if I am happy where I am then why should I desire anything else. TCs can move south tomorrow to the promised land as you keep painting it but they dont, listen carefully TCs would prefere a TRNC a thousand times worse than it is today than live in a GC state like the south in its current form, if they are to move south they might as well go to other European countries with better economies and not be open to GC discrimination.

That may have been the case, but you forgot something when you did that, and that was, that you took someone else’s property to make it your own and you were only able to keep it's the rightful owners away by force, but since 2004, you can't even keep the legal owners away from their properties any longer. They will use their legal rights to make the lives of those living in the north uncomfortable with time, which will be worse then before, if in fact you do not want to seek a Fair and Just solution, which you obviously do not if you think the AP is the way to go to finds a solution. That proposal was dealt with 5 years ago and look who has gained the most from the AP days, so stands the reasons as to why the future will bring more gains to the GC's and further loses to the TC's without a solution based on True Democracy and True Federation. If the TC's think they can negotiate something better, then show us what they are, otherwise, expect the worse for the TC community with time.

They can try to physically claim the properties tomorrow if they wish in the "pseudo state" and facing "pseduo police" and of course even "pseduo jail" but hey nothing to worry about dont you think?

5 years since joining the EU and the GCs did not get the dream solution thet ditched the AP for and they never will all they will get is the Cyprus problem into a bigger mess than it already is, but hey they can feel good about letting the French Austrians and others use them as escape donkeys.

Cypriotism has not disappeared, since you yourself use it to identify yourself with, like all other Cypriots. You do call yourself Turkish Cypriot, do you not.? Why don't you call yourself a Turk if you do not think you are a Cypriot any longer. If the young TC generation do not know the rest of their country of Cyprus, it was a deliberate attempt by the Fascists such as Denktash and others to keep it that way, which I'm sure you have done the same with your kids. The Fascist have robbed their childrens rightful place in the whole of Cyprus where their ansestaors are from and not the "gecegondu" of the "trnc" without any foundations, other that using brute force to claim the north as their new "country" in Cyprus. You may be able to brainwash the young, but you cannot wash away history. Lets hope the new generation will not hate the fascist too much for denying them their whole country of Cyprus.

I cannot convince you as you have no first hand experience of meeting young new generation TCs and listening to their views, they only know the TRNC and the south is just like going to a foreign country to do a big of shopping thats all. They have no ambitions or desires to go live work or make friends with GCs, they return to the TRNc and call it home, why does that upset you so much, isnt it only natural? you really need to visit the TRNC to appreciate fully how wrong you have been in your judgement you so readily brush aside the positive developments in the north and immediately praise the south which has many problems of its own.

Never forget that many gece kondus have all been legalized and given their deeds.

I hate to remind you who is the official government is in Cyprus and also who decides who is a Cypriot and who is a illegal alien in Cyprus. Officially, there are only about 90,000 TC's in Cyprus as of now, which it should have been 200,000 based on the 1960's 4:1 ratio. That is a 55% drop and the GC's numbers have gone up 100% to 800,000. Do you not see what is going on with this picture.? Even children born to TC mother from a Turk fathers are not considered to be a TC child unless it is agreed on during these settlements, therefore, don't look for added illegal aliens to somehow replace the Cypriots from the island, because that's how the settlers will always be seen as, illegal aliens. It just means there will be more foreigners, not more citizens in the north. With the recent ECJ rulings, you be lucky to find enough jobs for all those living in the north, let alone having another fictitious 1 million illegals on the island from Turkey. The only thing the settlers are replacing through OSMOSIS are the TC's which will see them become extinct. That's the way nature works, that the strong replaces the weak, and the TC's have become the weakest community on the island, so, they will be "eaten" by the settlers, no matter how much you want to claim that you are finally going back to your ancestral people.

Im 20 30 years time and with no solution in sight the new generation TCs will be just that and new generation made up of Turks that arrived on this island 450 years and those that continue to arrive and call the TRNC their home. Do they GCs discriminate those who become citizens through out the years? I know they have a tendency to be racists but we feel that Turks who come to this island have shildren and grandchildren with whom we mingle work andplay with as our people, this maybe difficult for you to understand but thats how things are devloping in the TRNC and no amount of English vocabulary will make us believe this is a bad development as the young new generation of TCs are our future. Ask any TCs would they rather their children marry a Turk or a GC?? then you will be clearer on where TCs stand.

This will in fact will be part of the process of the island of Cyprus of becoming pure "Greek" since in time, all they will see in the north only as illegal Aliens, and if and when another war breaks out, the GC's will be fighting the Turks and no longer the TC's. It changes the equation very much altogether. But lets not talk about war that no body really wants, so lets talk about Turkey trading the north by pulling her people out for the right top be in the EU. I did say her people, since you would have by then abdicated your Cypriotness and the True TC's numbers will be so low by then, Turkey will just take you with her to be with your ancestral people in Turkey, a dream come true for people like you, but a very broken heart for the remaining True TC's. Time does not stand still. All you have to do, is look at advances made by the north and the south since 2004 and see how the trajectory of those advances are. The south's progress trajectory is heading up as the trajectory progress of the north, is going down. You don't need to be a mathematician genius to know the difference of what's going UP and what's going DOWN. It is self explanatory.

Turkiye helal olsun, your doom and gloom scenarios dont work Kikapu when will you realize this? Anything is better than becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs.

The choice will be for Turkey to make and you won't have any say in the matter as time goes by, because most of the TC's will by then would have already become "comatose" and will not be able to function on their own. They will be lead by the nose to what ever deal Turkey will cut with the GC's. 2004 has changed the game plan, but you are still playing the pre 2004 game plan.

As in all "Dumper" and "Dumpee" satiations, it is the "Dumper" who makes the decision to dump and not the "Dumpee”. You will be the "Dumpee". You will be too "comatose" to even know what day of the week it will be, let alone make any decisions on what you want and not want, because you will not be thinking as a True TC anymore. You would have become a Turk through OSMOSIS, therefore you will do what ever Turkey will tell her people to do for the best interest of your motherland, Turkey. You will not say NO to your motherland, would you, VP.?

I trust Turkey 100% and the GCs 0%: Turkey has shown by not opening her ports the support and national importance they attach to the TRNC and her people.

Not as long as Turkey seen the occupying force in the north, which is their obligation to pay for you. It is not because Turkey wants to pay for it, but has no other choice. Why do you think Turkey wants International embargoes lifted, so that she does not have to pay for anything so that you can pay for everything yourself while she still remains on the island.

She has paid long enough and we will always be indebted to her.

I'm doing my part to make suggestions for a solution that will be respect Democracy, Human Rights and International Laws which this tread is dedicated to but I have yet to see anything from you other than your support for the AP which was contrary to the above principle I have mentioned. If you want to help the TC's, there can only be one solution that protects their place on the island of Cyprus, and it is those principles as I've described. Anything else, it will mean their extinction as TC's who would have been turned into becoming a Turks through osmosis, which may be what you want, but you would have also helped turn the island of Cyprus in to a "Greek" island, just because of the event that took place in 2004, and ever increasingly since.

I have put forward many times what I think could be a possible solution which is a BBF with guaranteed political equality of the 2 founding states on a 25-29% 75-71% land distribution, where everyone is free to settle where ever they wish.

You like all GCs over rate this Cypriot angle we are Turkish in origin and returning to these roots cannot be used as some sort or evil, to be avoided at all costs scare mongering propoganda. This where you whole arguement falls on its face we have no problems with being Turkish obviously you and the GCs do as you all go around promoting "Cypriotism" as if its a new fashion accessory, the title that will solve all our problems, well for me its just to little to late, that boat left in 1963.

[Viewpoint]

Not like you Kikapu? thought you would have worked out your answers by now? or hasnt the GC administration gotten back to you yet?

[Kikapu]

Kikapu well done, your command of the English language is super and allows you to manipulate, ignore and twist issues to a degree that even I nearly believe what you are saying. But you forget one important fact that I am a Turkish Cypriot who live here in the TRNC, so I live and see the developments as they happen whereas you are a text book doctor who has read the books but has never performed and operation.

I may be only reading "Doctor’s Book" without having had to perform any operations, but unlike you, I do not practice in
"Witch Craft Medicine" either to cure the problems of the north by wishful events to happen as you seem to be doing, because unlike you, I keep my soles very close to the ground with reality and not chase or make a wish for the impossible every time I see a "shooting star". You on the other hand always seem to be expecting recognition of the north, but unlike you, I know it too well that, that beautiful shooting star will just fizzle away by the time you can blink. You however always continue to delude yourself in believing every time that the very next "shooting star" will make all your impossible dreams come true, so you continue to make your wishes. You either fall into the phrase of "a sucker born every minute" or just an Romantic Fool who chases Shooting Stars. Either way, your dreams can only get shattered with what you want to do with the north in the 21st century by not respecting True Democracy, Human Rights and International Laws.!

Lets start and would you do me the favour of actuallu absorbing what I have taken my time to write and explain to you.

I always respect all those who take their time to write back replies. I read and absorb them, and then I give a reply with my own opinions and comments.

I look at the effect the changes have had on the TRNC over the past 5 years as I do not care about the south Cyprus, they can have the best economy in the world it does not mean I want a part of it. I have tried to explain to you before that if I am happy where I am then why should I desire anything else. TCs can move south tomorrow to the promised land as you keep painting it but they dont, listen carefully TCs would prefere a TRNC a thousand times worse than it is today than live in a GC state like the south in its current form, if they are to move south they might as well go to other European countries with better economies and not be open to GC discrimination.

The economy of the south was not really what I was talking about, as far as in what the GC's have achieved since 2004, but certainly, it is a major plus for them. I was talking more on what they have achieved in the diplomatic and legal circles over what the north has done in the same time period, no matter how much you want to dismiss such gains as being "worthless shit", they are important, and if and when the north ever to become officially part of the EU eventually, their dividends will pay out big time.

The TC's can't go the south just like that even if they wanted, even if they were to ignore years of brain washing by Denktash on them as well as being labelled as "traitors" if they did make the move. No, the main reason why they cannot go is, they have already gave their property deeds to the "trnc" for GC property in the north for their property in the south, and some may have bought and sold stolen GC land in the north, so, how can they go to the south under those conditions before there is a settlement. Secondly, most of the TC property in the south are in the name of the original owners, which may be grandparents or parents who may be dead now and that they did not leave a will for their property with their children, in which case, all the children will need to go through probate in the south to sort out their properties in the south.

Some of the children will not want to cooperate with their siblings if some did wanted to move to the south by simply not agreeing to go through a probate. If one member of the family says NO, then the rest are stuck. Again, most of the children have shared their parents property in the south by each having taken GC land in the north by turning over their deeds as a whole to the "trnc", or that parents have left the GC properties given to them by the “trnc” as an estate to be distributed to their heirs. It is a blood mess, thanks to Denktash, so don't make it sound like that the TC's choose the north over the south with a blanket statement as if they are really happy with the situation in the north. For many, they have placed themselves into the hands of the "trnc" with their property in the south and now, it is way too difficult to get out of it until a solution is found.

They can try to physically claim the properties tomorrow if they wish in the "pseudo state" and facing "pseduo police" and of course even "pseduo jail" but hey nothing to worry about dont you think?

You can keep the rightful owners away from their property by force, which is all you can do really, which does not improve your image to the world as being a “compassionate society”, but rather being a "corrupted society" which the decent TC's do not deserve, but those are the results all the same. However, legally, the GC's have gotten their properties back which puts them in the drivers seat in any settlement when it comes to the property issues and freedom of movement, which no force in the world can keep them away once a settlement is reached.

5 years since joining the EU and the GCs did not get the dream solution thet ditched the AP for and they never will all they will get is the Cyprus problem into a bigger mess than it already is, but hey they can feel good about letting the French Austrians and others use them as escape donkeys.

Well, it is very arrogant of you to suggest that the GC's did not get anything in the last 5 years since ditching the AP. For one thing, they did not lose anything they had before the AP, and since the AP, they have gained a lot of political and legal capital by being a EU member as well as legal decisions going their way. The question you should be asking is, just what has the TC's gained since the last 5 years after the AP and what did they lose by AP not being accepted. If I were to compare the events between the TC's and the GC's since 1974, I would say that it has been very close to the Hare and the Tortoise race, in which the TC's is the Hare and the GC's is the Tortoise. We all know who will cross the finishing line in the end, just because the Hare got too cocky for his own good and took everything for granted that he was going to win the race, just because he was faster. The way I see things, the Hare is still in a deep sleep thinking he has all the time in the world to beat the Tortoise to the finishing line not even realising, that the Tortoise , although moving very slowly, has in fact passed the sleeping Hare long ago, well, in 2004 to be exact.!

I cannot convince you as you have no first hand experience of meeting young new generation TCs and listening to their views, they only know the TRNC and the south is just like going to a foreign country to do a big of shopping thats all. They have no ambitions or desires to go live work or make friends with GCs, they return to the TRNc and call it home, why does that upset you so much, isnt it only natural? you really need to visit the TRNC to appreciate fully how wrong you have been in your judgement you so readily brush aside the positive developments in the north and immediately praise the south which has many problems of its own.

I believe you in what you say above, which is all the reasons why I believe, it will be this situation what is going on in the north that will make the island of Cyprus a "Greek" island in the future, since the TC's are becoming more like Turks than Cypriots. There will come a time, when the RoC and Turkey will make a deal or there will be another war, but in either case, there won't be enough TC's left to worry about, because there won't be enough of you to raise your voices to anything that Turkey may decide on your behalf that you may not like. You would have become a Turk with Turkey as your motherland, therefore, you will do what ever your motherland will say. Accept that to be fact or else tell me why I'm wrong in this.

Never forget that many gece kondus have all been legalized and given their deeds.

Sure, fake deeds and fake promises to the gullible and the morally corrupted, until the ECJ legal notice showed up to tell them that those fake deeds are not worth anything any longer.!

I don't think you have ever heard of the phrase "gecegondu" before until I told you a while back. As a kid living on a hill overlooking Ankara, we had a lot of open space around us in the mid 60’s, and often, very simple houses would be built from sun down to sun up, and very soon after, usually the same day, the authorities would come and knock it down, just because they were illegally built on others private land or state's land without a permit. This is the same for the "trnc", and the only reason it has not been knocked down yet, it is because of the corrupted authorities and the Turkish Army, which is hardly a foundation for any thing to be counted on for the long term.

Im 20 30 years time and with no solution in sight the new generation TCs will be just that and new generation made up of Turks that arrived on this island 450 years and those that continue to arrive and call the TRNC their home. Do they GCs discriminate those who become citizens through out the years? I know they have a tendency to be racists but we feel that Turks who come to this island have shildren and grandchildren with whom we mingle work andplay with as our people, this maybe difficult for you to understand but thats how things are devloping in the TRNC and no amount of English vocabulary will make us believe this is a bad development as the young new generation of TCs are our future. Ask any TCs would they rather their children marry a Turk or a GC?? then you will be clearer on where TCs stand.

They will be always considered by the GC's as Illegal Aliens no matter how long it will take, and as long as they control the official government in Cyprus, you cannot change this. No doubt some will be allowed to stay and even made into Cypriot citizenship, but don't keep your hopes too high, that just because you can import more settlers you can become a majority in this way. As for a TC being asked whether they would marry a GC or a settler, I’m almost certain all would say NO to the GC’s, but also, most would say NO to the settlers too, unless of course, parents are looking after their own interest by trying to marry their girls off with a well to do settler in a form of a arranged marriage, no matter how bad they may miss treat their daughter in the future. It was you who was telling us that the TC’s would be marrying rich Turks in the future. How is it going so far.? Are there many rich Turks coming any marrying our TC girls or is it mostly the settlers who are wanting the TC girls. I have a very beautiful family member in the north who is still single and refuses to marry anyone just yet, no matter if they are a TC, GC or a settler. Perhaps she is waiting for one of those rich Turks to show up that you have talked about.?

Turkiye helal olsun, your doom and gloom scenarios dont work Kikapu when will you realize this? Anything is better than becoming a minority in a GC state run by GCs.

No body has asked you to become a minority in Cyprus, only an equal citizen with equal rights, the same with all other citizens. It is you who is demanding to be treated as a minority by demanding special treatment and rights, therefore by definition, by claiming such privileges will make you a minority. But even if you want to claim minority rights, you are still not entitled to step all over other Democratic Rights, so that you can gain on others constitutional rights. Be careful what you ask for, or else, you will make yourself to be considered being a minority.!!!

I trust Turkey 100% and the GCs 0%: Turkey has shown by not opening her ports the support and national importance they attach to the TRNC and her people.

Then you should be asking to "unite" with Turkey and not with the GC's, if you do not trust them, so why are you wasting everyone's time by going through the motions in wanting a so called "settlement". The days of the AP are long gone, if that's what you expecting to happen by some miraculous conception. We already had that 2009 years ago and it might be another millennium or two if and when the next one comes.!

Timing is everything. Lets see what will happen in December of this year between Turkey and the EU.

She has paid long enough and we will always be indebted to her.

Don't worry, because Turkey is keeping a tab on what she spent on you and she will one day want it back. There is no such thing as a "free ride" I'm afraid. As the bumper sticker on a old beat up Hippy VW camper van I use to see in Venice Beach, California with hand painted PEACE signs all over it would say, "Gas, Grass or Ass, nobody rides for free".! Well, you don’t have any Gas, except what you spout, no Grass I hope, or else it might be jail time for you, but what you do have a lot of, is ASS.! Be prepared for it when the time comes. It may not be a very pleasant experience for you. You have been warned……again.!

I have put forward many times what I think could be a possible solution which is a BBF with guaranteed political equality of the 2 founding states on a 25-29% 75-71% land distribution, where everyone is free to settle where ever they wish.

There cannot be 2 founding states if it means for people to lose part of their country in a form of a permanent division and lets not try to fool people what 2 founding states means. You own so much land in Cyprus that belongs to you. This cannot be converted into your own country and denying others from their land or allow them to settle there as foreigners in their own country. Just how long will it take before you drive them out little by little as the case was with the Armenians and the Maronites in Cyprus so that the north becomes fully Turkish. This will never be accepted by the GC’s and the 2004 AP proved it, so there is no point even discussing this formula. The only way the land distribution can work out as you have stated above, to be in a True Federation under the plan I gave you on page one on this thread.!

You like all GCs over rate this Cypriot angle we are Turkish in origin and returning to these roots cannot be used as some sort or evil, to be avoided at all costs scare mongering propoganda. This where you whole arguement falls on its face we have no problems with being Turkish obviously you and the GCs do as you all go around promoting "Cypriotism" as if its a new fashion accessory, the title that will solve all our problems, well for me its just to little to late, that boat left in 1963.

No one is telling you not to become a Turk. We all know you are not a True Cypriot, so please kindly remove the phrase “Cypriot” after Turkish Cypriot and stop calling yourself a Turkish Cypriot. This goes to all those who wish to become a Turk, just kindly leave out the word “Cypriot” and just call yourselves , Turk, Turkish, Anatolian, whatever. I will respect you all more if you did that than calling yourselves a TC but not a Cypriot if you do not value your Cypriotness. Then you can all go to Turkey and become the 47th ethnic group making up the Turkish society in Turkey. You may even become the privileged chosen ethnic group amongst the other 46 ethnic groups and be given 50% of everything in Turkey, just because you feel that you are entitled for them.!!

[Viewpoint]

Thank you for finally responding in detail to my post, which I have read with interest but am again dissapointed to find you still are engrossed with your usual one sidedness and sarcasm to a point exceeding nausia. You choose to continue your crusade for the GC cause by using child like scenarios and inuendos which do nothing but exsasberate any type of constructive debate one can generate with someone of your one sided mentality.

I will not respond to each of your responses as then you will be obliged to generate more of the same GC propaganda which will get us nowhere.

The TRNC will continue to exsist as long as people like you who are the majority of GCs continue to show your inflexiblity and narrow stance, so Id like to thank you and wish you keep banging your head against that wall thinking that it will resolve matters, the real fact is you will die of brain damage but of course you will be none the wiser because you do not have the visionnor the desire to break free of your habit of hitting your head against a brick wall. Thank you once again keep up the good work.