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Iranians rioting for democracy

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Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:48 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Iranian HR and civil liberty violations are all American propaganda,

That's something you've just manufactured. The issue at hand is the erroneous thread title... "Iranians rioting for democracy". Rioting; the destruction of other people's property spurred on by the US, has nothing to do with "democracy"!!! If anything it VIOLATES democracy.

whilst HR abuses by democratic nations such as Greece are fact.... :lol:

Democratic nations don't behave this way...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus24484.html

You've lost the plot! :roll:

It looks like the "democratic" Greeks have...

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus24484.html


There youy go again! Your childish brain is dismissing Iranian HR violations whilst acusing Greece of even worse HR abuses.... :lol:

I am intrigued on how your brain works...


According to this, Greece is a democratic country:

Map of Freedom 2008:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

Civil Liberties and Press Freedom score card:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:09 pm

Paphitis wrote:There youy go again! Your childish brain is dismissing Iranian HR violations whilst acusing Greece of even worse HR abuses.... :lol:

I am intrigued on how your brain works...


According to this, Greece is a democratic country:

Map of Freedom 2008:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

Civil Liberties and Press Freedom score card:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

You should read up about unauthorized junk sites like the “Freedom House” before you utilize their garbage data…

“About Us

Freedom House is a clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world. Since its founding in 1941 by prominent Americans concerned with the mounting threats to peace and democracy…”


http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=2

If you stick to internationally accepted HR authorities like the UNHCR, Amnesty International, the Human Rights Watch, etc, you can’t go wrong.
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:13 pm

DT. wrote:The only thing wrong with this thread is my choice of words on the title which was mistakenly written as rioting instead of demonstrating which is what they are clearly doing.

The second mistake is that the treatment of Iranians by this autocratic regime is being excused by you.

You thread is a TOTAL misrepresentation of facts because you became an accessory to the US who easily sucked you in.

When the demonstrations turned into RIOTS that’s when the Iranian government moved in as happens all over the world but you didn’t bother to check.
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Postby DT. » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:20 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:There youy go again! Your childish brain is dismissing Iranian HR violations whilst acusing Greece of even worse HR abuses.... :lol:

I am intrigued on how your brain works...


According to this, Greece is a democratic country:

Map of Freedom 2008:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

Civil Liberties and Press Freedom score card:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

You should read up about unauthorized junk sites like the “Freedom House” before you utilize their garbage data…

“About Us

Freedom House is a clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world. Since its founding in 1941 by prominent Americans concerned with the mounting threats to peace and democracy…”


http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=2

If you stick to internationally accepted HR authorities like the UNHCR, Amnesty International, the Human Rights Watch, etc, you can’t go wrong.


Its no use I've posted articles from human rights watch and you just ignore it. Listen, you've reached a level where you're saying that these people who are demonstrating in Iran against the Mullahs are breaking the law and should be reprimanded. Thats a difficult thing for me to swallow.

For your sake go and pick up something like Newseek's June 29th issue and read why the reformists such as previous supreme leader Khatami is siding with the street.

Have a look around at most editorials out there that are explaining how Obama's cautious approach has made it difficult for Khameini to fly the nationalistic flag because the enemy is just sitting back and watching.

Don't you see that if the USA had something to do with this then it would all have been over. All you need to do in these states in the middle east is tell the people that they're following US instructions and they'll fall in line faster than a row of ducks.
The problem is that no one will believe him now because they can see this is not from the west but a deep desire of the people of Iran.

You close your eyes to crime after crime that the mullahs, the ayatollahs, the clerics and the supreme leaders are committing JUST because you've spent too much energy already on a conflicting argument.

You've argued your life out against US involvement in the area and you've argued to death the fact that Greece betrayed Cyprus in the 70's and is henceforth worse today than Iran. :roll:

The first argument stops you from thinking beyond the US and its motives and the second seems to stop you thinking all together.
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:39 pm

Get Real! wrote:Theocracy, is a system you grew up with Miltiades… how easily you forget the role and influence of the Cypriot Orthodox church during the 20th century! :lol:


Not just in the 20th centerary.

Cyprus is still very much a theocracy in the 21st century, but it can never be compared to Iran.

You could discuss many things in theocratic societies, such as Greece and Cyprus. Homophobia is endemic, but at least Cyprus and Greece do not hang gays in public, or stone women on suspicion of adultery.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:41 pm

DT,

The US’s meddling in most countries of the world, is the PRIMARY cause of global Human Rights abuses!

Here’s how it works using the recent Iranian example…

When the Iranian election was approaching, the US moved in and funded the strongest opposition with promises to support and even make them the new government.

The funding included a strategy to immediately raise an outcry of a “rigged election” and thugs to start demonstrations and riots to get the momentum going. This in turn angers the Iranian government who by now, have no other option but to crack down on the American-backed trouble makers with a show of force.

This show of force now gives the American propaganda machine the perfect “excuse” to criticize and “expose” the “cruel and undemocratic” Iranian government by spreading the news via YouTube videos and other mass media.

You are unable to see this vicious cycle being played on many countries of the world by the wealthy and criminal US, because of your naivety and ignorance of contemporary world affairs.
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Postby DT. » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:45 pm

Get Real! wrote:DT,

The US’s meddling in most countries of the world, is the PRIMARY cause of global Human Rights abuses!

Here’s how it works using the recent Iranian example…

When the Iranian election was approaching, the US moved in and funded the strongest opposition with promises to support and even make them the new government.

The funding included a strategy to immediately raise an outcry of a “rigged election” and thugs to start demonstrations and riots to get the momentum going. This in turn angers the Iranian government who by now, have no other option but to crack down on the American-backed trouble makers with a show of force.

This show of force now gives the American propaganda machine the perfect “excuse” to criticize and “expose” the “cruel and undemocratic” Iranian government by spreading the news via YouTube videos and other mass media.

You are unable to see this vicious cycle being played on many countries of the world by the wealthy and criminal US, because of your naivety and ignorance of contemporary world affairs.


The growing cycle of ending autocratic regimes is invisible to you and you call me naive and ignorant?

the more you type the more you're starting to sound like a time capsule. :roll:

So tell me oh wise one. DO these people ever deserve democracy or should they be guarded from it for perpetuity in case it has something to do with the Americans?

Answer it.
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:48 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Paphitis wrote:There youy go again! Your childish brain is dismissing Iranian HR violations whilst acusing Greece of even worse HR abuses.... :lol:

I am intrigued on how your brain works...


According to this, Greece is a democratic country:

Map of Freedom 2008:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

Civil Liberties and Press Freedom score card:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cf ... &year=2008

You should read up about unauthorized junk sites like the “Freedom House” before you utilize their garbage data…

“About Us

Freedom House is a clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world. Since its founding in 1941 by prominent Americans concerned with the mounting threats to peace and democracy…”


http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=2

If you stick to internationally accepted HR authorities like the UNHCR, Amnesty International, the Human Rights Watch, etc, you can’t go wrong.


It was founded by prominent Americans in 1941.... :roll:

So what?

America has just as much right to comment on HR abuses around the world and probably has much more credibility than Amnesty International and I'm talking from experience.

Some illegal immigrants are now incarcerated in Australia because I helped catch them, since I work within Australia's Border Protection Surveillance program. Amnesty International accuses Australia of permanently incarcerating these illegal immigrants. What rubbish, since the illegal immigrants have the option of not claiming refugee status and elect for immediate deportation without the need to await for a Department of Immigration hearing. :roll:

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL IS AS CREDIBLE AS GR! and HIS UPSTANDING DEFENCE OF IRANIAN HR ABUSES!
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:54 pm

Iran cleric urges executing some protesters
Meanwhile, opposition leader shies away from street protests

Iranian authorities have barred journalists for international news organizations from reporting on the streets and ordered them to stay in their offices. This report is based on the accounts of witnesses reached in Iran and official statements carried on Iranian media.

TEHRAN - A senior cleric on Friday urged Iran's protest leaders to be punished "without mercy" and said some should face execution — harsh calls that signal a nasty new turn in the regime's crackdown on demonstrators two weeks after its disputed election.

Hard-liners have ordered long sentences and hangings before, and some fear those awaiting trial by a judiciary whose verdicts reflect the will of supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei could face the most severe punishments the Islamic system can dish out.

"Anyone who takes up arms to fight with the people, they are worthy of execution," Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami, a ranking cleric, said in a nationally broadcast sermon at Tehran University.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31564910/ns ... tn_africa/

:shock: Iran cleric urges the execution of protesters..... :shock:
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Postby Paphitis » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:11 pm

Iran: Journalists detained as news restrictions tighten

26 June 2009

The Iranian authorities must immediately release dozens of journalists arrested since 12 June and who are at risk of torture in detention, Amnesty International said today as it adopted all of them as prisoners of conscience.

“It is shocking that journalists – whose job it is to provide information to others - are being detained, on top of all the other draconian measures the authorities have taken to restrict the free flow of information about what is really happening in Iran. Rather than trying to investigate alleged abuses, the only message the authorities are sending is that they are seeking to hide the truth, both from their own citizens and the rest of the world.”

Dozens of journalists – some who also campaigned for either Mir Hossein Mousavi or Mehdi Karroubi, both candidates in the presidential election, have been detained in the past fortnight with their whereabouts mostly unknown.

For example, around 20 of 25 employees of the newspaper Kalameh Sabz arrested at their office in Haft Tir Square on 22 June are still detained and their whereabouts remain unknown. Kalameh Sabz is a newspaper established by presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi in 2009, and which has not been published since 14 June.

Since the announcement on 13 June that President Ahmadinejad had won the election, the Iranian authorities have imposed severe restrictions on freedom of expression. Access to the internet has been blocked or significantly interrupted. Iranian publications have been banned from publishing information about the unrest. Foreign news journalists have been banned from the streets, and some foreign reporters have been expelled from the country.



“If nothing else, the authorities must immediately disclose the whereabouts of these journalists, ensure that they are not tortured or otherwise ill-treated and allow their families and lawyers access to them,” said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui. “Unless the authorities lift all unlawful restrictions on freedom of expression – which includes the right of journalists to report on events – and release all the journalists arrested, we can only assume they are trying to hide evidence of abuse and further silence any critical voice”.

Background:

Hundreds of politicians, journalists, academics, students and human rights defenders, have been detained, some briefly, across Iran since the election. Most are either supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi or Mehdi Karroubi, or are close to ex-President Khatami who supported Mir Hossein Mousavi’s campaign. Others have been critical of incumbent President Ahmadinejad’s policies. On 24 June, 70 academics who had met Mir Hossein Mousavi that day were arrested as they left his office. All but four were released later. Those still detained include Dr Ghorban Behzadian, the head of Mir Hossein Mousavi’s election campaign. According to official statements, well over a thousand others have been arrested during demonstrations against the outcome of the election which have been met with excessive use of force by security forces. Many were beaten, and according to the authorities, up to 21 people have been killed, although the true number is likely to be higher.

Among journalists detained in the past fortnight are:

Mahsa Amrabad, a journalist for the Etemad-e Melli newspaper founded by presidential candidate Mehdi Karroubi, who was arrested from her home on 14 June.
Abdolreza Tajik, editor of the weekly magazine Farhikhtegan, who was arrested from the magazine’s offices on 14 June.
Keyvan Samimi Behbehani, editor of the banned Nameh magazine, who was also arrested at home on 14 June. He is also a member of the Centre for Human Rights Defenders’ Arbitrary Arrests Committee.
Mojtaba Pourmohsen, editor of the newspaper Gilan-e Emrooz, from the northern city of Rasht from where he hosted a programme for the Netherlands-based Radio Zamaneh, who was arrested on 15 June.
Fariborz Soroush, a freelance journalist who has given interviews to the Prague-based Radio Farda, who was reported to have been arrested on 16 June.
Saeed Laylaz, a prominent economic journalist who writes for Sarmayeh and who had been very critical of incumbent President Ahmadinejad’s economic policies was arrested on 17 June.
Mohammad Ghochani, the editor of Etemad-e Melli was arrested on 18 June at his home. According to information received by Amnesty International, he is believed to be held in Section 209 of Evin Prison in Tehran, which is controlled by the Ministry of Intelligence.
Karim Arghandehpour, a freelance journalist and blogger who used to write for various now-banned reformist newspapers, who was arrested on 14 June.

Journalists reporting for foreign news outlets have also been arrested: Maziar Bahari, who has dual Canadian and Iranian nationality who reported for Newsweek from Iran, was arrested on 21 June. Iason Athanasiadis-Fowden, a Greek national who was covering the election for the Washington Times, was arrested when trying to leave Iran on or around 19 June.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/pre ... n-20090626
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