Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Cooperline,

The GC mindset represented here by Piratis and the many others was what made me stop and think about the whole situation...I was horrified to realise these people held us (TCs) responsible for 1571...They are still burning with anger and bitterness...The whole ENOSIS episode was about getting even...I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..." There is nothing we can say to change this deep-rooted hatred...Another notorious Turk-hater believes we have no right or place in Cyprus...Yet another one is actively planning to blow us to Hell with his war machine...Thank heavens there are other decent,sensible GCs here who lighten the darkness of these twisted souls...But unfortunately,history has proven that it is the fanatical extremists who win the day during any inter- communal conflict...I was proven wrong,and the TC viewpoint represented by Viewpoint here was proven right...It is far too early to trust the majority of the GCs with our lives and the lives of our children...Hence the TC redlines...And the agony will continue for another few generations...

People like you (not all TCs) are rightfully hated for your own criminal stance of today against Cyprus, just like your similarly minded ancestors were rightfully hated in the past for the crimes they committed in their own time.

I don't hate you for what the Ottomans did, and that is a very lame excuse. If we were like that we would also hate the Latin minority. I am simply pointing out that, unlike the Latin minority, people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages. You still want to discriminate against us and have gains on our expense, and it is for these racist actions of yours today that you are rightfully hated.

In our history we have shown how forgiving we can be, which is why we managed to have those 80 years of peace and coexistence. And if it was only up to us, then we could forgive you again and have peace again.

Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses from half a century ago in order to continue violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of innocent people. You are a shameless racist and then you wonder why you are hated! You want to make the GCs "pay the price" - of course we should all love you!! Your position of what you want to do against the GCs is a clear admission that not only you hate GCs, but you also seek revenge and you want to punish us!

Now tell me Bir, how is your mentality any different from the criminal Ottoman scam that committed this crime against innocent Cypriot people, simply because they dared to ask for their freedom:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

It was correct that the "nice" Ottomans made those "evil" GCs" pay the price" to punish them for dare thinking about their freedom, right Bir?

[BirKibrisli]

Cooperline,

The GC mindset represented here by Piratis and the many others was what made me stop and think about the whole situation...I was horrified to realise these people held us (TCs) responsible for 1571...They are still burning with anger and bitterness...The whole ENOSIS episode was about getting even...I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..." There is nothing we can say to change this deep-rooted hatred...Another notorious Turk-hater believes we have no right or place in Cyprus...Yet another one is actively planning to blow us to Hell with his war machine...Thank heavens there are other decent,sensible GCs here who lighten the darkness of these twisted souls...But unfortunately,history has proven that it is the fanatical extremists who win the day during any inter- communal conflict...I was proven wrong,and the TC viewpoint represented by Viewpoint here was proven right...It is far too early to trust the majority of the GCs with our lives and the lives of our children...Hence the TC redlines...And the agony will continue for another few generations...

People like you (not all TCs) are rightfully hated for your own criminal stance of today against Cyprus, just like your similarly minded ancestors were rightfully hated in the past for the crimes they committed in their own time.

I don't hate you for what the Ottomans did, and that is a very lame excuse. If we were like that we would also hate the Latin minority. I am simply pointing out that, unlike the Latin minority, people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages. You still want to discriminate against us and have gains on our expense, and it is for these racist actions of yours today that you are rightfully hated.

In our history we have shown how forgiving we can be, which is why we managed to have those 80 years of peace and coexistence. And if it was only up to us, then we could forgive you again and have peace again.

Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses from half a century ago in order to continue violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of innocent people. You are a shameless racist and then you wonder why you are hated! You want to make the GCs "pay the price" - of course we should all love you!! Your position of what you want to do against the GCs is a clear admission that not only you hate GCs, but you also seek revenge and you want to punish us!

Now tell me Bir, how is your mentality any different from the criminal Ottoman scam that committed this crime against innocent Cypriot people, simply because they dared to ask for their freedom:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

It was correct that the "nice" Ottomans made those "evil" GCs" pay the price" to punish them for dare thinking about their freedom, right Bir?

Stop harping on about the Ottomans,Piratis...Let history decide and rule on the Ottoman times...I am talking about
our own time,my lifetime...You had to be opportunistic...You had to be trecherous...You wanted to give my homeland on a plate to my historical "arch enemy"...You didnt have forgiveness in your heart...You had bitternesss and hatred and the desire for revenge...That is evident in every post you write...You failed in 1950s...You tried it again in 1963 even after we managed to become an independent country...You destroyed the Republic and made the TCs second class citizens in their own country...Not giving a second thought about their democratic and human rights...As if that wasn't enough,you tried again in 1974 to achieve your sick dream...You failed again miserably...Yes,now if you want a solution,you will pay the price...The price is the acceptance of the TC's red lines...If you don't pay this price you will kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...
I can't put it any more plainly than this...

[Piratis]

Cooperline,

The GC mindset represented here by Piratis and the many others was what made me stop and think about the whole situation...I was horrified to realise these people held us (TCs) responsible for 1571...They are still burning with anger and bitterness...The whole ENOSIS episode was about getting even...I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..." There is nothing we can say to change this deep-rooted hatred...Another notorious Turk-hater believes we have no right or place in Cyprus...Yet another one is actively planning to blow us to Hell with his war machine...Thank heavens there are other decent,sensible GCs here who lighten the darkness of these twisted souls...But unfortunately,history has proven that it is the fanatical extremists who win the day during any inter- communal conflict...I was proven wrong,and the TC viewpoint represented by Viewpoint here was proven right...It is far too early to trust the majority of the GCs with our lives and the lives of our children...Hence the TC redlines...And the agony will continue for another few generations...

People like you (not all TCs) are rightfully hated for your own criminal stance of today against Cyprus, just like your similarly minded ancestors were rightfully hated in the past for the crimes they committed in their own time.

I don't hate you for what the Ottomans did, and that is a very lame excuse. If we were like that we would also hate the Latin minority. I am simply pointing out that, unlike the Latin minority, people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages. You still want to discriminate against us and have gains on our expense, and it is for these racist actions of yours today that you are rightfully hated.

In our history we have shown how forgiving we can be, which is why we managed to have those 80 years of peace and coexistence. And if it was only up to us, then we could forgive you again and have peace again.

Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses from half a century ago in order to continue violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of innocent people. You are a shameless racist and then you wonder why you are hated! You want to make the GCs "pay the price" - of course we should all love you!! Your position of what you want to do against the GCs is a clear admission that not only you hate GCs, but you also seek revenge and you want to punish us!

Now tell me Bir, how is your mentality any different from the criminal Ottoman scam that committed this crime against innocent Cypriot people, simply because they dared to ask for their freedom:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

It was correct that the "nice" Ottomans made those "evil" GCs" pay the price" to punish them for dare thinking about their freedom, right Bir?

Stop harping on about the Ottomans,Piratis...Let history decide and rule on the Ottoman times...I am talking about
our own time,my lifetime...You had to be opportunistic...You had to be trecherous...You wanted to give my homeland on a plate to my historical "arch enemy"...You didnt have forgiveness in your heart...You had bitternesss and hatred and the desire for revenge...That is evident in every post you write...You failed in 1950s...You tried it again in 1963 even after we managed to become an independent country...You destroyed the Republic and made the TCs second class citizens in their own country...Not giving a second thought about their democratic and human rights...As if that wasn't enough,you tried again in 1974 to achieve your sick dream...You failed again miserably...Yes,now if you want a solution,you will pay the price...The price is the acceptance of the TC's red lines...If you don't pay this price you will kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...
I can't put it any more plainly than this...

Take your threats elsewhere. You talk about leaving the past behind and then you talk about "historical arch enemies" We are Greeks, and if we are your arch enemies that is because you invaded us, not because we want our freedom! What is sick is your invasions against our island, and you imposing by force your will on the Cypriot people. Not the Cypriot people democratically choosing were they want their own island to belong - absolutely nothing wrong with that.

We will never "kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus". It is our homeland for 1000s of years and we have seen many foreign invaders come and go.

[DTA]

Cooperline,

The GC mindset represented here by Piratis and the many others was what made me stop and think about the whole situation...I was horrified to realise these people held us (TCs) responsible for 1571...They are still burning with anger and bitterness...The whole ENOSIS episode was about getting even...I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..." There is nothing we can say to change this deep-rooted hatred...Another notorious Turk-hater believes we have no right or place in Cyprus...Yet another one is actively planning to blow us to Hell with his war machine...Thank heavens there are other decent,sensible GCs here who lighten the darkness of these twisted souls...But unfortunately,history has proven that it is the fanatical extremists who win the day during any inter- communal conflict...I was proven wrong,and the TC viewpoint represented by Viewpoint here was proven right...It is far too early to trust the majority of the GCs with our lives and the lives of our children...Hence the TC redlines...And the agony will continue for another few generations...

People like you (not all TCs) are rightfully hated for your own criminal stance of today against Cyprus, just like your similarly minded ancestors were rightfully hated in the past for the crimes they committed in their own time.

I don't hate you for what the Ottomans did, and that is a very lame excuse. If we were like that we would also hate the Latin minority. I am simply pointing out that, unlike the Latin minority, people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages. You still want to discriminate against us and have gains on our expense, and it is for these racist actions of yours today that you are rightfully hated.

In our history we have shown how forgiving we can be, which is why we managed to have those 80 years of peace and coexistence. And if it was only up to us, then we could forgive you again and have peace again.

Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses from half a century ago in order to continue violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of innocent people. You are a shameless racist and then you wonder why you are hated! You want to make the GCs "pay the price" - of course we should all love you!! Your position of what you want to do against the GCs is a clear admission that not only you hate GCs, but you also seek revenge and you want to punish us!

Now tell me Bir, how is your mentality any different from the criminal Ottoman scam that committed this crime against innocent Cypriot people, simply because they dared to ask for their freedom:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

It was correct that the "nice" Ottomans made those "evil" GCs" pay the price" to punish them for dare thinking about their freedom, right Bir?

Stop harping on about the Ottomans,Piratis...Let history decide and rule on the Ottoman times...I am talking about
our own time,my lifetime...You had to be opportunistic...You had to be trecherous...You wanted to give my homeland on a plate to my historical "arch enemy"...You didnt have forgiveness in your heart...You had bitternesss and hatred and the desire for revenge...That is evident in every post you write...You failed in 1950s...You tried it again in 1963 even after we managed to become an independent country...You destroyed the Republic and made the TCs second class citizens in their own country...Not giving a second thought about their democratic and human rights...As if that wasn't enough,you tried again in 1974 to achieve your sick dream...You failed again miserably...Yes,now if you want a solution,you will pay the price...The price is the acceptance of the TC's red lines...If you don't pay this price you will kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...
I can't put it any more plainly than this...

Take your threats elsewhere. You talk about leaving the past behind and then you talk about "historical arch enemies" We are Greeks, and if we are your arch enemies that is because you invaded us, not because we want our freedom! What is sick is your invasions against our island, and you imposing by force your will on the Cypriot people. Not the Cypriot people democratically choosing were they want their own island to belong - absolutely nothing wrong with that.

We will never "kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus". It is our homeland for 1000s of years and we have seen many foreign invaders come and go.

when was the last time the 'greeks' ruled the whole of cyprus?

You produce a compelling argument about one man one vote, fair play.. but we are the majority in the north of the island so if we vote for a separate state would you accept this?

Before you talk about ethinic cleansing to produce the majority in the north, by the same token were not the TC of south cyprus Ethnically cleansed in 1974 as well?

Or was it population exchange? what was the population exchange 'deal'? that is a genuine question as i dont know much about it.

Do you claim that 45,000 refugees from Maras were ethincally cleansed even though they all left before the Turkish army got near the city?

How many GCs were forceably removed out of their homes and forced South... I meant at gunpoint and with them not wanting to leave their houses? and how many left because of fear etc etc.

Did you know there are still GC living in the TRNC inparticularly in the Karpas region?

[Kikapu]

The price is the acceptance of the TC's red lines...If you don't pay this price you will kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...

If I may interject here, Bir. The TCs so called "Red Lines" are to keep 29% of the north to become "Turkish Land" only and become independent sovereign EU state with a simple majority vote in the north to seek their own "self determination" when ever they want, keep the Turkish Guarantors and troops, keep all of the settlers, become 50% partner with the RoC, have a veto power, have their own FIR, and so on. So, do you expect the GCs to accept return of 8% of land and agree to all of the above TCs "Red Lines" so to make it legal from what it's illegal today, or else the GCs will "pay the price" and lose all 37%.???

Well, let me venture a guess here and say, that the GCs would say to the TCs and Turkey,"in your dreams, pal".!

Why would the GCs for the sake of 8% land returned officially lose the other 29%, and lose their leverage by keeping the north illegal, politically unrecognised, and economically deprived.??

Why would they do such a thing, that would free Turkey to continue with her EU chapters and accession talks and if she should make it , then come and flood the RoC with more Turks legally this time around.??

Why would they want to share everything with the TCs, when in fact, the TCs would have a veto vote over them, and feel like they have lost the remaining 63% of the island to the TCs and the Turks, just to risk getting 8% land back.

Well, I don't believe they will want that 8% and risk the whole house. They would just keep the status quo going as it is now, and keep the 37% illegal, politically unrecognised and economically deprived. Keep Turkey out of the EU, and continue winning EU court cases against the TCs and the Turks, all the while keep enjoying the recognition of the RoC and it's economic success. They can afford to wait the Turks and the TCs out, because the last 36 years has shown, that while the RoC gets stronger with time, the "trnc" gets weaker. So, I don't think the 8% is enough of an incentive to risk losing 100% of Cyprus.

Perhaps I'm wrong and that the GCs are willing to do all of the above and accept all the so called TCs "Red Lines" just so to lose 100% of Cyprus to Turkey.!!.

[CopperLine]

"people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages."

The enraged Piratis does it again (he can't help himself, poor chap). Piratis, again, assigns a characteristic to an internet forum poster whom he presents as all TCs and then with even wilder imagination asserts that these virtual and fictional people are the same as ("have not changed") medieval Cypriots. Only Piratis could make up this nonsense. Oh yes, and before I forget, these virtual, fictional, un-named present-and-past characters are also accused of crimes which they couldn't possibly have committed and can only be forgiven by the likes of Piratis.

Bullshit from beginning to end.

[Piratis]

"people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages."

The enraged Piratis does it again (he can't help himself, poor chap). Piratis, again, assigns a characteristic to an internet forum poster whom he presents as all TCs and then with even wilder imagination asserts that these virtual and fictional people are the same as ("have not changed") medieval Cypriots. Only Piratis could make up this nonsense. Oh yes, and before I forget, these virtual, fictional, un-named present-and-past characters are also accused of crimes which they couldn't possibly have committed and can only be forgiven by the likes of Piratis.

Bullshit from beginning to end.

Yet more crap from CopperLine who is trying to defend his fellow crime supporters. Yet another person with a middle age mentality.

Or maybe CopperLine is a fictional character so he doesn't count?

[Piratis]

Cooperline,

The GC mindset represented here by Piratis and the many others was what made me stop and think about the whole situation...I was horrified to realise these people held us (TCs) responsible for 1571...They are still burning with anger and bitterness...The whole ENOSIS episode was about getting even...I could see the glint in Piratis' eye..."Wait till we get you on your own,then you will pay for the sins of the Ottomans..." There is nothing we can say to change this deep-rooted hatred...Another notorious Turk-hater believes we have no right or place in Cyprus...Yet another one is actively planning to blow us to Hell with his war machine...Thank heavens there are other decent,sensible GCs here who lighten the darkness of these twisted souls...But unfortunately,history has proven that it is the fanatical extremists who win the day during any inter- communal conflict...I was proven wrong,and the TC viewpoint represented by Viewpoint here was proven right...It is far too early to trust the majority of the GCs with our lives and the lives of our children...Hence the TC redlines...And the agony will continue for another few generations...

People like you (not all TCs) are rightfully hated for your own criminal stance of today against Cyprus, just like your similarly minded ancestors were rightfully hated in the past for the crimes they committed in their own time.

I don't hate you for what the Ottomans did, and that is a very lame excuse. If we were like that we would also hate the Latin minority. I am simply pointing out that, unlike the Latin minority, people like you have not changed at all since the middle ages. You still want to discriminate against us and have gains on our expense, and it is for these racist actions of yours today that you are rightfully hated.

In our history we have shown how forgiving we can be, which is why we managed to have those 80 years of peace and coexistence. And if it was only up to us, then we could forgive you again and have peace again.

Unfortunately you are trying to find excuses from half a century ago in order to continue violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of innocent people. You are a shameless racist and then you wonder why you are hated! You want to make the GCs "pay the price" - of course we should all love you!! Your position of what you want to do against the GCs is a clear admission that not only you hate GCs, but you also seek revenge and you want to punish us!

Now tell me Bir, how is your mentality any different from the criminal Ottoman scam that committed this crime against innocent Cypriot people, simply because they dared to ask for their freedom:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.

It was correct that the "nice" Ottomans made those "evil" GCs" pay the price" to punish them for dare thinking about their freedom, right Bir?

Stop harping on about the Ottomans,Piratis...Let history decide and rule on the Ottoman times...I am talking about
our own time,my lifetime...You had to be opportunistic...You had to be trecherous...You wanted to give my homeland on a plate to my historical "arch enemy"...You didnt have forgiveness in your heart...You had bitternesss and hatred and the desire for revenge...That is evident in every post you write...You failed in 1950s...You tried it again in 1963 even after we managed to become an independent country...You destroyed the Republic and made the TCs second class citizens in their own country...Not giving a second thought about their democratic and human rights...As if that wasn't enough,you tried again in 1974 to achieve your sick dream...You failed again miserably...Yes,now if you want a solution,you will pay the price...The price is the acceptance of the TC's red lines...If you don't pay this price you will kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...
I can't put it any more plainly than this...

Take your threats elsewhere. You talk about leaving the past behind and then you talk about "historical arch enemies" We are Greeks, and if we are your arch enemies that is because you invaded us, not because we want our freedom! What is sick is your invasions against our island, and you imposing by force your will on the Cypriot people. Not the Cypriot people democratically choosing were they want their own island to belong - absolutely nothing wrong with that.

We will never "kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus". It is our homeland for 1000s of years and we have seen many foreign invaders come and go.

when was the last time the 'greeks' ruled the whole of cyprus?

You produce a compelling argument about one man one vote, fair play.. but we are the majority in the north of the island so if we vote for a separate state would you accept this?

Before you talk about ethinic cleansing to produce the majority in the north, by the same token were not the TC of south cyprus Ethnically cleansed in 1974 as well?

Or was it population exchange? what was the population exchange 'deal'? that is a genuine question as i dont know much about it.

Do you claim that 45,000 refugees from Maras were ethincally cleansed even though they all left before the Turkish army got near the city?

How many GCs were forceably removed out of their homes and forced South... I meant at gunpoint and with them not wanting to leave their houses? and how many left because of fear etc etc.

Did you know there are still GC living in the TRNC inparticularly in the Karpas region?

It is not about who "ruled" Cyprus. Greeks are the vast majority of the native population of this island, and this is what counts. We are not living in the age of empires. Or are you another person with a mentality from the middle ages?

The Greek Cypriots are the majority of the whole island, even if the Turkish troops illegally prevent them to inhabit part of their homeland at this time.

TCs are the minority, and they have always been so. Even when TCs lived in the southern part of the island they were again the minority.

Ethnic cleansing is when the population is forcefully removed, which is what happened with the GC refugees. Partition has been the aim of TCs since the 1950s. The TCs were not forcefully removed, they went to the occupied areas to take twice as much than what they left behind and in this way fulfill their own aim.

[CopperLine]

And again, Piratis writes :

"What is sick is your invasions against our island, and you imposing by force your will on the Cypriot people."

He accuses another person who is TC of invading his island and of that same TC of imposing by force his will.... Again from a virtual individual Piratis assigns responsibility for a historical crime which the virtual individual couldnot have committed. Armed with that virtual and fictional crime Piratis then turns round and accuses real living TCs of their commission. Not content with this interminable bullshit, in some attempt at distraction, Piratis invents another equally tendentious target from his febrile imagination.

[Piratis]

The price is the acceptance of the TC's red lines...If you don't pay this price you will kiss goodbye to 37% of Cyprus...

If I may interject here, Bir. The TCs so called "Red Lines" are to keep 29% of the north to become "Turkish Land" only and become independent sovereign EU state with a simple majority vote in the north to seek their own "self determination" when ever they want, keep the Turkish Guarantors and troops, keep all of the settlers, become 50% partner with the RoC, have a veto power, have their own FIR, and so on. So, do you expect the GCs to accept return of 8% of land and agree to all of the above TCs "Red Lines" so to make it legal from what it's illegal today, or else the GCs will "pay the price" and lose all 37%.???

Well, let me venture a guess here and say, that the GCs would say to the TCs and Turkey,"in your dreams, pal".!

Why would the GCs for the sake of 8% land returned officially lose the other 29%, and lose their leverage by keeping the north illegal, politically unrecognised, and economically deprived.??

Why would they do such a thing, that would free Turkey to continue with her EU chapters and accession talks and if she should make it , then come and flood the RoC with more Turks legally this time around.??

Why would they want to share everything with the TCs, when in fact, the TCs would have a veto vote over them, and feel like they have lost the remaining 63% of the island to the TCs and the Turks, just to risk getting 8% land back.

Well, I don't believe they will want that 8% and risk the whole house. They would just keep the status quo going as it is now, and keep the 37% illegal, politically unrecognised and economically deprived. Keep Turkey out of the EU, and continue winning EU court cases against the TCs and the Turks, all the while keep enjoying the recognition of the RoC and it's economic success. They can afford to wait the Turks and the TCs out, because the last 36 years has shown, that while the RoC gets stronger with time, the "trnc" gets weaker. So, I don't think the 8% is enough of an incentive to risk losing 100% of Cyprus.

Perhaps I'm wrong and that the GCs are willing to do all of the above and accept all the so called TCs "Red Lines" just so to lose 100% of Cyprus to Turkey.!!.

Well said Kikapu!

Basically what is on offer now is not for us to get back the 37% of Cyprus, but just the 8%, while at the same time officially losing the rest 29%. And for that 8% we would have to pay all of the above you just said.

Bir thinks that we have to "pay the price" but then he always complaints how the TCs are the biggest losers. So what does he expect us to do? To make ourselves the biggest losers and make the TCs the winners? Not a chance in a billion pal. It will either be a "win - win" or a "loss - loss", with the TCs losing the most. Continue demanding from us to "pay the price" by sacrificing our human and democratic right, and you will only have yourself to blame for TCs being the biggest losers.