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Australians are committing War Crimes...

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Postby Get Real! » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:40 pm

What’s this world coming to if you can’t even go about your daily War Crimes in peace! :roll:

WikiLeaks founder warned of action

Australia may pressure Sweden to prosecute Julian Assange or others linked to his whistleblower website WikiLeaks if planned releases of military documents outlining the Iraq and Afghanistan wars pose a risk to serving forces.

Attorney-General Robert McClelland warned Mr Assange, who is an Australian citizen but runs his rogue website from Sweden, that he could not ''from the comforts of his office'' release sensitive information that endangered people on the front line.

WikiLeaks published 77,000 Afghan war documents in July and plans to release another 15,000 related documents soon.


http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/lo ... 55942.aspx
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:25 am

I am so proud of my boys!

In the ADF, we preach one in all in!

'God' bless the SAS! :D

Great to see serving brothers coming to their aid with eyewitness testimony! This is the legend on which the ANZAC spirit bases itself.

Image

Of course, in order to prove the man slaughter charges, the prosecution will need to prove criminal intent. So definitely NOT a War Crime, and the allegations put forward are NOT talking of a deliberate attempt at killing civilians. At the very most, a violation on the rules of engagement.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:03 am

The ANZAC legend immortalized at Galipoli, the Kokoda Track and at Long Tan is alive and well. This legend is alive and well within our SAS, as serving members throw their hats into the line of fire to assist their fellow accused ANZACS who are being framed by an Australian Minority Government hanging onto power with its teeth and nails by dishing out the most absurd and falsified allegations in a last ditch attempt to gain favor with a disenfranchised Australian people.

They of course underestimated the ANZAC spirit within the ranks of the ADF, and very soon these trumped up charges will be dropped like a hot potato, as serving members line up to defend their fellow ANZACS!

Watch these charges get dropped like a hot potato.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:25 am

Two Australian soldiers have been charged with manslaughter following the deaths of five children in Afghanistan last year, the Director of Military Prosecutions says.

"The accused persons will be charged with various service offences, including manslaughter, dangerous conduct, failing to comply with a lawful general order and prejudicial conduct," the director said in a statement.

Special Forces soldiers charged with manslaughter over deaths in Afghanistan
September 27, 2010

A member of Australia's Special Operations Task Group in southern Afghanistan. Photo: Defence Media
Two Australian soldiers have been charged with manslaughter following the deaths of five children in Afghanistan last year, the Director of Military Prosecutions says.

"The accused persons will be charged with various service offences, including manslaughter, dangerous conduct, failing to comply with a lawful general order and prejudicial conduct," the director said in a statement.

A third soldier will be charged on his return to Australia.

The director, Brigadier Lyn McDade, had been considering whether to lay charges against the soldiers, who conducted a night-time raid on a residential compound believed to harbour Taliban insurgents on February 12 last year.

Defence said previously the deaths occurred as the soldiers conducted clearance operations using gunfire and hand grenades.

One suspected insurgent and five children were killed, while another two children and two adults were wounded.

The soldiers, formerly of the Special Operations Task Group, were to be charged with service offences, Brigadier McDade said. The soldiers were not named in the statement.

Brigadier McDade said her investigations had been completed only recently and only after "careful, deliberate and informed consideration".

"The accused persons will be charged with various service offences, including manslaughter, dangerous conduct, failing to comply with a lawful general order and prejudicial conduct," Brigadier McDade said in a statement.

In a statement released the day after the attack, Defence said the deaths occurred as Special Operations Task Group soldiers conducted clearance operations through a number of compounds.

"During the conduct of this operation the soldiers were fired upon by Taliban insurgents," it said.

"The SOTG engaged the insurgents, returning fire in accordance with their rules of engagement."

The two soldiers, A and B, have issued a statement in response, promising to fight the charges.

"We will strenuously defend the charges and we look forward to the opportunity of publicly clearing our reputations, as well as the reputation of the Australian Defence Force," the pair said through the law firm Kennedys.

Soldiers A and B attacked the media for "many cases" of inaccurate reporting of the clearance operations.

"Words will never adequately express our regret that women and children were killed and injured during the incident on 12 February 2009," they said.

"These were people we were risking our lives to protect."

The soldiers blamed the deaths on the enemy.

"It should not be forgotten that the casualties were ultimately caused by the callous and reckless act of an insurgent who chose to repeatedly fire upon us at extreme close range from within a room he knew contained women and children," the pair said.

Soldiers A and B said when the full facts of the battle became public, their decision would be vindicated.

"It will be clear to everyone that we made the correct decision under truly awful circumstances."

Defence Minister Stephen Smith said Brigadier's McDade's decision was a matter for the "independent military legal process".

"It is not appropriate for me to comment on the decision of the military prosecutor, the incident itself, or to prejudge in any way the outcome which will be heard before a service tribunal or tribunals," he said in a statement.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/special- ... 15t96.html
Last edited by Paphitis on Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:29 am

'We risked our lives to protect them': soldiers

Here, in full, is today's statement by two Australian commandos who are to be charged with manslaughter over an operation in Afghanistan that ended in the deaths of five children.

PUBLIC STATEMENT BY TWO MEMBERS OF THE ADF TO BE CHARGED WITH OFFENCES ARISING FROM INCIDENT IN AFGHANISTAN ON FEBRUARY 12, 2009

The Director of Military Prosecutions has decided to charge two Australian commandos with offences arising from a civilian casualty incident in Afghanistan on February 12, 2009.

The soldiers wish to make the following public statement:

In view of the extensive and, in many cases, inaccurate reporting of this incident in the media over the last 18 months, we have been advised to take the unusual step of making a public statement. We have cleared this statement with Special Operations Headquarters.

We are deeply disappointed by the decision of the Director of Military Prosecutions to charge us with offences arising from the incident in Afghanistan on the night of 12 February 2009. We will strenuously defend the charges and we look forward to the opportunity of publicly clearing our reputations, as well as the reputation of the ADF.

Words will never adequately express our regret that women and children were killed and injured during the incident on 12 February 2009. These were people we were risking our lives to protect. However, it should not be forgotten that the casualties were ultimately caused by the callous and reckless act of an insurgent who chose to repeatedly fire upon us at extreme close range from within a room he knew contained women and children. This forced us to make split-second decisions, under fire, which almost certainly saved the lives of our fellow Australian and Afghan soldiers. We believe that when all the facts of this incident are made known to the public, it will be clear to everyone that we made the correct decision under truly awful circumstances.

We would like to express our gratitude for the strong support we have received throughout this process from the CDF, Chief of Army, Special Operations Commander Australia, our commanding officer and the members of the Special Operations Command, who along with many other members of the ADF, continue to serve under demanding and dangerous conditions in Afghanistan.


Soldier A and Soldier B

1st Commando Regiment

http://www.smh.com.au/national/we-riske ... 15tdv.html
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:37 am

The soldiers apparently have the backing of the Chief of Defence Force, Air Marshal Angus Houston. Also, many of their mates from their unit have stated that they will testify for the defence should the case proceed further.

There is certainly far more to the story than GR! has led on, and later I look forward to rubbing his nose into the ground. These soldiers have lots of support, and this would not be the case if they did infact callously slaughter 5 civilians. The word within the ranks is that the soldiers were very diligent in their work, and not the murdering types!. That is not the ANZAC or Australian way!

There are also reports of eyewitness accounts that generally support the 2 soldier's statements!

This to me smells just like an Labor Australian Government populist publicity stunt! It is very sad that ADF soldiers are now being used by politicians as their little pawns in a desperate, and hideous attempt to maintain power.

The ADF, Military Prosecutions and MPs are on a collision course!

Expect this to fizzle out very quickly!
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Postby Paphitis » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:10 am

The positive thing about all this is the fact that these civilian casualties in Afghanistan must be a very rare occurrence for the ADF as great care and due diligence is taken. Every combatant that is killed, or wounded is meticulously recorded. Every time a bullet is fired, there is paperwork to be filled out. Unauthorised discharge of weapons or violations against the Rules of Engagement are not tolerated!

The soldiers are saying that they were NOT aware of the presence of civilians within the building whilst they sustained enemy fire and were forced to respond. But I can't comment about the Rules of Engagement as this will no doubt come out in the wash.

"God bless the ADF, and in true Aussie ANZAC fashion, we look after our mates on the battlefield and in the court rooms.

One in, all in! :D

this reminds me of my time during Officer training, when a group of us got into a bar fight over some girls at the local pub on ANZAC day after the parade and in uniform. Some locals called the MPs so we had to quickly leave. The next day on the parade ground, the Flight Sergeant was pretty down right irate and they decided to collectively punish us all over the actions of 4, unless we fessed up. Well, the 4 of us stepped forward, and then after that the entire Unit also stepped forward.

The Flight Sergeant was upset and pissed, but deep down he was very impressed, that the entire unit decided to stick by the guilty 4. The entire unit was collectively punished with exhaustive sleep deprivation, physical activity, drill, painting curbs, and rations. But the bonds that were built on that day, last for a life time!

Once again, at the ADF, it is one in, all in! That's how we roll in the ADF!

You look after you mates, and your mates look after you. That is the ANZAC way!

The CNG can learn from this!

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Postby gauss » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:25 am

Geez this paphitis must be one serious bozo...even the ozzie press are calling this for what it is:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/afghan-charges-stalled-hague-war-crimes-case-20100929-15xik.html

Afghan charges stalled Hague war crimes case
Dan Oakes
September 30, 2010

THE charging of Australian commandos over the deaths of six Afghan civilians headed off an international investigation into the killings.

A spokeswoman for the International Criminal Court told the Herald yesterday that investigators from the court had begun inquiries into the killings, which happened when the commandos threw grenades into a room containing five children and an armed man.
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However, she said the ICC's interest in the case would end with the charging of the commandos by the Australian military prosecutor, as the court takes action only if the country in question is unwilling or unable to prosecute.

There has been speculation that the Director of Military Prosecutions charged the three commandos - one with manslaughter - partly because there was a risk that they could be charged with war crimes by the ICC prosecutor if no action was taken in Australia.

Australia is a signatory to the Rome Statute on war crimes and consequently has an obligation to prosecute its nationals in Australia or risk having suspects prosecuted separately by the ICC in The Hague.

Defence sources have said they could not be certain how much the prospect of the ICC prosecuting the commandos influenced Brigadier Lyn McDade's decision to charge them.

But they said she would undoubtedly have been aware that the ICC was taking an interest in the case.


In other words, a disgracefully cynical attempt at deflecting war-crimes charges by bringing minimal action against these murderous butchers of children under civilian statutes. Fair bloody dinkum, cobber!
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:22 am

gauss wrote:Geez this paphitis must be one serious bozo...even the ozzie press are calling this for what it is:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/afghan-charges-stalled-hague-war-crimes-case-20100929-15xik.html

Afghan charges stalled Hague war crimes case
Dan Oakes
September 30, 2010

THE charging of Australian commandos over the deaths of six Afghan civilians headed off an international investigation into the killings.

A spokeswoman for the International Criminal Court told the Herald yesterday that investigators from the court had begun inquiries into the killings, which happened when the commandos threw grenades into a room containing five children and an armed man.
Advertisement: Story continues below

However, she said the ICC's interest in the case would end with the charging of the commandos by the Australian military prosecutor, as the court takes action only if the country in question is unwilling or unable to prosecute.

There has been speculation that the Director of Military Prosecutions charged the three commandos - one with manslaughter - partly because there was a risk that they could be charged with war crimes by the ICC prosecutor if no action was taken in Australia.

Australia is a signatory to the Rome Statute on war crimes and consequently has an obligation to prosecute its nationals in Australia or risk having suspects prosecuted separately by the ICC in The Hague.

Defence sources have said they could not be certain how much the prospect of the ICC prosecuting the commandos influenced Brigadier Lyn McDade's decision to charge them.

But they said she would undoubtedly have been aware that the ICC was taking an interest in the case.


In other words, a disgracefully cynical attempt at deflecting war-crimes charges by bringing minimal action against these murderous butchers of children under civilian statutes. Fair bloody dinkum, cobber!


You better stop making a fool of yourself because the ICC is ONLY making enquiries and this is pretty much standard procedure!

A spokeswoman for the International Criminal Court told the Herald yesterday that investigators from the court had begun inquiries into the killings, which happened when the commandos threw grenades into a room containing five children and an armed man.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/afghan-c ... 15xik.html


And that they DO NOT believe that anything will develop from those enquiries:

However, she said the ICC's interest in the case would end with the charging of the commandos by the Australian military prosecutor, as the court takes action only if the country in question is unwilling or unable to prosecute.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/afghan-c ... 15xik.html


Meaning that this case is NOT a War Crime and because Australia will give the soldiers a fair trial NOT for War crimes. Please read the charges!

Why?

Because the gunfight was reported by the charged soldiers themselves (in the ADF, if you fire a weapon then you better make sure there was a good reason to do so and that the Rules of Engagement are adhered to), revealing that there were indeed civilian casualties which they claim they were not aware of their presence when the insurgents opened fire.

I also beg to differ with you. There is much speculation over this case, and public opinion is very much undecided. The soldiers released a statement, and there is much merit in what they have to say, and this is apparently well supported and backed up by others who were present in the field, which is why the ICC will take no interest!

So who is the bozo now? :D

Sorry, but I got to laugh at all this bullshit.
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Postby Paphitis » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:36 am

Furthermore, I think you will find that every member in the ADF will support any prosecution if there was indeed an act of callous murder. But this is a very grey area at the moment because of the statement the soldiers have released to the media, and also because it appears apparent that the soldiers in question have the support of their Unit, their Commander and the Chief of Defence Force, Air Marshall Angus Houston of all people!

There is a little more to this story that you or the media are aware of. The soldiers received fire from a building at night and they threw a grenade killing 1 insurgent and 5 civilians. They claim that they did not know of any civilians and that some of them were very nearly killed on that night from enemy fire! The soldiers are adamant about their innocence, and I think you will find that it was them who reported the incident! This is pretty much all we know so far!

The ADF likes to think that they are a bit better than the Americans and even better than the Brits. They are well trained and are not in the business of killing civilians. In fact, they don't even like to kill enemy insurgents! Killing someone is something every soldier in the ADF would be quite happy to avoid if they can! Great care and diligence is taken, but things can get out of hand when you are being shot at! Our soldiers are very well trained and follow very strict Rules of Engagement. They do not take the American Approach on matters. They are selected from the best performing High School and University graduates. It is very competitive because for most people, the ADF is a good career prospect. No one wants to kill willy nilly, and those that have to are never the same.

I have worked with Vietnam Vets in the RSL. The mental condition of some of our soldiers was quite heart breaking. What they went through I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. Within this group I have managed to take a former Cyprus National Guardsman who suffers very similar mental symptoms and is Bipolar to boot. But the road to recovery is long and hard, even for Huey Pilots! Drugs, alcoholism, domestic violence etc are common. Some need to take antidepressants to get through the day!
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