Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

So who supplied the Sarin gas then? Does anyone know? Surely the UN would have been able to carry out tests to say which country manufactured it.

If they did that the UK would be in trouble as at least some of the primary chemicals used to make Sarin came from UK companies. Nobody supplied the Sarin to the Syrian Government, I believe they make it themselves.

[kimon07]

Thanks for the post Robin Hood.

[Get Real!]

If they did that the UK would be in trouble as at least some of the primary chemicals used to make Sarin came from UK companies.

That's like saying the Cosa Nostra' second in command may get into trouble for supplying their thugs with weapons.


Global Cosa Nostra
------------------------------
Capo dei capi – America
Capo dei Europe – Britain
Capo dei Puta - France

[Schnauzer]

Why do we not just try and judge for ourselves what the 'Truth' of the matter is instead of relying on the information 'Leaked' (in many cases purposely) from the very same sources that supplied all the information which has culminated in the destruction of many nations.

Who cares WHO fired the 'Gas' or WHERE the 'Helicopter' happened to be when shot down, the 'Liardy* Bastards' who (* good old Irish expression) control the distribution of anything related to the incidents, are the same 'LB's' that are responsible for them in the first place.

Thank 'God' for the current 'Russian' intervention in the latest 'Syrian Fiascos', were it not for the good sense and insistence of their representatives that the 'TRUTH' be made known prior to any further murderous actions by the 'Three Stooges' (US, UK and France) there would now be even more opportunities for the mighty 'Yanks' to circulate more 'LIES'.

The 'Russians' have put the block on the anticipated 'Biased' reports about to be published by the 'UN' weapons inspectors, it would appear that they are ordered (by 'Russia) to get back and have another look before committing themselves to yet another 'Falsification' AND, a stark warning to 'Obama' and the rest of his 'Clowns' that, THIS time, the objectives of all those expansionist/controlling ambitions will be scrutinised a little more closely.

On a lighter note, can you imagine the utter 'CHEEK' of the 'Yanks' wishing to impose their cultural attributes (if such exist) upon other nations whilst their OWN, is undoubtedly THE most 'Grotesque' on the face of the earth ?, as the old 'Red Indian Chief' famously said:-

"Before you tell me how to live in MY 'Tepee', go and learn how to live in your own !"

[Robin Hood]

Schnauzer:

Thank 'God' for the current 'Russian' intervention in the latest 'Syrian Fiascos', were it not for the good sense and insistence of their representatives that the 'TRUTH' be made known prior to any further murderous actions by the 'Three Stooges' (US, UK and France) there would now be even more opportunities for the mighty 'Yanks' to circulate more 'LIES'.

A good post and I’ll raise a glass to that! Irrespective of their motive's if it were not for Russian intervention in the US/Israeli plans we would now be in the middle of a war zone and a lot of innocent people would be dying.

I get the distinct feeling that through the information available on the Internet, more people are making up their own minds based on an abundance of available information and hopefully, we are going to see changes forced by the will of the people. I would like to see a block put on the US/Israel and I sincerely hope that the UN grows some testicles and insists that both these countries are made to toe the red lines they lay down for everyone else. The Israelis should be forced to give up their nuclear weapons and their chemical and biological arsenal. If they refuse then the UN should impose the same strict sanctions as the US has illegally and unjustifiably applied on the Iranian people.

[Paphitis]

So who supplied the Sarin gas then? Does anyone know? Surely the UN would have been able to carry out tests to say which country manufactured it.

If they did that the UK would be in trouble as at least some of the primary chemicals used to make Sarin came from UK companies. Nobody supplied the Sarin to the Syrian Government, I believe they make it themselves.

"g"IG should have been much more concise!

there is a hell of difference between supplying some compounds that were used by the regime to produce Sarin and actually supplying Sarin Gas!

Unfortunately, too many members are just full of shit in eagerness to rubbish anything British. That is how members lose their credibility!

[Paphitis]

Why do we not just try and judge for ourselves what the 'Truth' of the matter is instead of relying on the information 'Leaked' (in many cases purposely) from the very same sources that supplied all the information which has culminated in the destruction of many nations.

Who cares WHO fired the 'Gas' or WHERE the 'Helicopter' happened to be when shot down, the 'Liardy* Bastards' who (* good old Irish expression) control the distribution of anything related to the incidents, are the same 'LB's' that are responsible for them in the first place.

Thank 'God' for the current 'Russian' intervention in the latest 'Syrian Fiascos', were it not for the good sense and insistence of their representatives that the 'TRUTH' be made known prior to any further murderous actions by the 'Three Stooges' (US, UK and France) there would now be even more opportunities for the mighty 'Yanks' to circulate more 'LIES'.

The 'Russians' have put the block on the anticipated 'Biased' reports about to be published by the 'UN' weapons inspectors, it would appear that they are ordered (by 'Russia) to get back and have another look before committing themselves to yet another 'Falsification' AND, a stark warning to 'Obama' and the rest of his 'Clowns' that, THIS time, the objectives of all those expansionist/controlling ambitions will be scrutinised a little more closely.

On a lighter note, can you imagine the utter 'CHEEK' of the 'Yanks' wishing to impose their cultural attributes (if such exist) upon other nations whilst their OWN, is undoubtedly THE most 'Grotesque' on the face of the earth ?, as the old 'Red Indian Chief' famously said:-

"Before you tell me how to live in MY 'Tepee', go and learn how to live in your own !"

The Russians were shown the evidence and they fully know who is responsible and only the other day claimed that anything is possible and "stranger things have happened" as if to insinuate that the rebels could have infiltrated the Syrian Military Base from where the rockets were launched and stolen the Syrian CW Rockets and launched them.

Yes not a problem Russia. As to the 'evidence', it is not fit for public consumption. This intelligence was gained from people in Syria who are on the ground, Satellite Images, and Trajectory Analysis from the most top secret espionage installations in the world, such as the infamous Echelon Network in North America, and Australia.

Those that needed to be informed were, including Russia. The UK, France, Australia, Japan and some others have seen the evidence and have stated that there is no doubt!

However, the important thing is Weapons Inspectors are now doing their work, gaining more evidence and the CW arsenal will be surrendered. Game Over!

We can all say, that this is a good thing as Syrians will never again be killed from chemical weapons.

[Kikapu]

Fell in Syrian airspace. Pilots ejected in Syrian airspace. So why did the Turks shoot it in Syrian airspace?

Strong northerly winds perhaps!

Probably the helicopter's warning system alerted the pilots of the incoming missile fired from some 10-12 km away. So they start heading towards Syria before ejecting. A helicopter as such crusing at 125 knots would cover the 2 km in 30 seconds before being hit on Syrian side. If they had no radar warning about an incoming missile what chance did they have of ejecting in time? In any case, voice recordings of the warnings by Turkish airspace control to the helicopter as it approached and entered the Turkish airspace that had no response from the helicopter pilots are also on record. If the Syrians want to accuse anyone of an illegal attack, let them find the black box of the helicopter and hand it over to UN!

So bigOz, taking your above figures at face value, (a big mistake, I know), what you are telling us is, that the missile(s) fired by Turkish jets from about 10-12 km from it's target, the Syrian helicopter 2 km within Turkey's airspace from the border, and once the helicopter pilots detected missile(s) coming, they made a run for it at 125 knots/hr to get back into Syrian airspace, but since the helicopter was hit by the missile(s) within 1 km on Syrian territory from the Turkish border, then the helicopter would have had to fly 45 seconds to cover the 3 km from the time it had detected missile(s) coming it's way. The problem with your figures is, air to air missiles generally have a average speed of about Mach 3, or about 3,700 km/hr, or 2,300 mph, meaning, for the missile(s) to cover the 10-12 km range from it's target, the Syrian helicopter 2 km into Turkish airspace, it would have taken about 12 seconds at most, which means that the Syrian helicopter would have been hit at least 1 km in Turkish airspace the fallen helicopter would have crashed on Turkish territory, but in actuality, it crashed 2 km away in the Syrian territory 1 km from the Turkish border on Syrian territory.

And your explanation is what exactly as to how this could have happened?

Kikapu, the helicopter may have tried to escape well before any missiles were fired.

I don't know how well equipped the Syrian Chopper was, but they would have known about the inbound F-16s even if it was comms from their own radar controllers.

Also, the Turks had comms with the Chopper on the Emergency Frequency 121.5 which is always monitored.

That would only mean then, Paphitis, that the chopper was definitely shot down over Syria territory and not shot at while it was in Turkish territory as BigOz claims. It looks more like Turkey wanted to settle some score for the downing of the Turkish F4 last year by Syria over Syrian airspace. Look, the burned-out chopper came straight down onto Syrian territory after it had been shot, so there is no question that was a criminal act by the Turks for shooting down the chopper which had no imminent direct threat to them, regardless if the chopper was in Turkish airspace up to 2 kms from the shared border. If you shot at a criminal and killed him after he had run away from your home onto the street and who no longer a direct threat to you, you will be in jail for a very long time for murder, my friend. No different in what Turkey did here.

[Paphitis]

Maybe but that is hardly relevant. What is relevant is whether the Syrian Chopper violated Turkish Airspace. If it did, then the Turks had their right to protect their border.

Whether or not it did or not is very hard to prove. Only the Turks and Syrians know the truth. Perhaps the Americans also know with their Satellite and surveillance technology.

What I think is obvious is that the Chopper engaged FSA rebels near the border, and may have ventured into Turkish Airspace to engage the FSA that may have been using Turkey for protection.

The Turks picked up the activity from their sentries, and radar and scrambled a couple of jets. Syrian Chopper tries to leave, and departs Turkish Airpace but is hit in Syrian Airspace.

I don't think this is adequate revenge for the Phantom. So I do not believe that is the motive.

In order to avenge the Phantom, would mean at least 1 or 2 Syrian MIGs and within their airspace to send the regime a clear message!

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Unfortunately, too many members are just full of shit in eagerness to rubbish anything British. That is how members lose their credibility!

It is an offence under International Law to provide even the materials that can be used to make MWD’s. Think back to Saddam and his ‘special pipes ’supplied from the UK and all the controversy over them ..... which turned out to nothing in the end. It is even an offence to supply the know-how!

So my answer to GiG is correct ........... if the UK supplied the ingredient’s knowing they could be used to produce a chemical weapon, then they broke International law. In the same way as supplying weapons, information and support to terrorists is also an International offence but it doesn’t seem to worry the US and its Allies very much, does it? They just reclassify ‘terrorists’ as the 'good guys' and supply it anyway!

I am not rubbishing anything British, but I am certainly not blind to my Country’s numerous faults.

The Russians were shown the evidence and they fully know who is responsible and only the other day claimed that anything is possible and "stranger things have happened" as if to insinuate that the rebels could have infiltrated the Syrian Military Base from where the rockets were launched and stolen the Syrian CW Rockets and launched them.

Yes not a problem Russia. As to the 'evidence', it is not fit for public consumption. This intelligence was gained from people in Syria who are on the ground, Satellite Images, and Trajectory Analysis from the most top secret espionage installations in the world, such as the infamous Echelon Network in North America, and Australia.

Those that needed to be informed were, including Russia. The UK, France, Australia, Japan and some others have seen the evidence and have stated that there is no doubt!

If you were to read ALL the available evidence you would understand why the Russians and many other Nations refute the claims by the US/UK/France, who were hell bent on war. The MSM does not give you the full story. The rockets used were identified as Russian, by the Russians who say it is from 1950’s production as identified by the markings, they also said which factory made them and these would certainly not be standard inventory for Assad’s forces. The second larger rocket was a crude homemade device and again would not have been part of the Syrian army’s inventory. I have seen nowhere your claim that ‘.....rebels could have infiltrated the Syrian Military Base’.

You could say that ‘....of course it is obvious Assad would know this so he would use old stock so the he could blame it on the rebels’, which is no doubt what somebody will come up with to disprove the validity of the evidence?

Evidence can easily be provided without releasing details that would compromise National Security, so the argument that this conclusive evidence is ‘.....not fit for public consumption’, is rubbish. You only claim that sort of immunity when you have something to hide ...... or don’t have the ‘conclusive evidence’ to support the claims, which seems to be the case.

We can all say, that this is a good thing as Syrians will never again be killed from chemical weapons.

Has anybody told the rebels this? It also depends on your idea of chemical weapons! Do you exclude White Phosphorous and depleted/enriched Uranium from that classification?