Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

You have discussed partition 100 times,not partition with a tc state is the EU .very big difference.All land will be pre requisite for the agreement to go thru.it will not be 71-29 % split but closer to 80-20

Re Greek pezevenk, the partition of your mom's rear end is the most likely scenario.

You off your meds again xoriati?

[Pyrpolizer]

Actually in the beginning very few will go back not even 1%. It will be a slow process that may take many years. Nevertheless that's a plus so that the TCs taste what it means BBF to satisfy their fear Vs the GCs and feel for once in their lives what it means to hold your fate in your hands and raise taxes out of your own pocket -not from the pocket of Turkey's tax payers- to sustain a VERY costly Federal structure.
BBF has EVERY potential to evolve into something better, partition is like signing our death sentence and giving away part of our own country to who-the Turkish cypriots???? That's myopic.

[MR-from-NG]

Look at the reality. It has been you lot that have refused to empower us as TCs to further our existence and now you use it against us.

It’s not in any country’s interests to empower minorities of any kind… why don’t you take some tips from Turkey which you are so fond of?

In every country of the world and throughout the history of mankind, if a minority peacefully coexists it is left alone but if it seeks autonomy it is persecuted.

Call it “natural selection”, call it man’s control-freak nature, call it whatever you want I don’t care… but that’s how it is.

If Cyprus was to grant a handful of TCs power then what happens next year when the Russian community wants power too? And what about 5 years from now when the Jewish community grows and wants partition too?

You think we’re going to be playing cut & paste for the rest of out existence so us to respect “your rights”? What about the rights of that country’s identity and existence? You think you’re more important?

You think that’s how the world works? What are you stupid?

Here’s how it normally works… you get a couple of warnings from the government to cut the crap and if you don’t they send their national guard and cut you to pieces… but don’t take it from me just ask the Kurds in east Turkey.

So just because you have Turkey foolishly interfering in the natural order of this country (and against the interests of everybody including Turkey) doesn’t mean that you have special rights now.

So get over yourselves!

There is a lot of truth in what you say. However, if the 2 communities are made up of cats and dogs then its highly likely it wont work.

[Pyrpolizer]

It seems in the last few months that various journalist and think tanks are writing and putting forward the great taboo that maybe the best solution for cyprus is truly a agreed partition.I know many in this forum will be up in arms but would a tc state within the EU be better than a dis function confederal model because let's face it that's what has been discussed the last forty years by all cypriot presidents from all ideological spectrums.i have three articles by stavros lygeros a well respected greek journalist,Yusuf Kanli that always believed the cyprus problem ended in 1974 but has come to the realization that maybe two cypriot states working within the EU would be better and the ICG that is turkey's biggest supporter .

All three articles place the tc state within the EU and recognized,however for this recognition the tc state would need to be drastically reduced,respect the EU acquis and property rights of gc that the land is in the tc state.the turkish military would be withdrawn however the tc state can have a defense pact with turkey which is allowed within the EU.Lygeros idea even goes further stating that the two cypriot states even separate would hold on vote in the EU,when the both agree or disagree they vote,bg when the two disagree about something they abstain.guarantees rights would be abolished most likely the sba as well.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ality.aspx

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/cyprio ... sCatID=425

http://strategyreports.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/κυπριακό-η-επιστροφή-του-σχεδίου-ανάν/

I know people are going to go ballistic but won't both sides really get what they want and don't say it aloud.the Turks get their recognition and state the gc get a lot of territory back the rest get their property rights and the turkish military threat is gone.the island would become a coop of two states with a wide range of cooperation and in the future if the bonds materialize they can formally join as a true federation with pressure and cohesion with third party rights ahead of cypriot either greek or turkish.

We discussed this hundreds of times in this forum.
By the minute we even accept to discuss partition, the pseudo will be recognized.
Then all that will be left is territory to be given back. Negotiations will drag for eternity and in the end we will get not an inch back.

The worst BBF is better than partition. Because is has the potential to evolve into Unitary state over time.

You have discussed partition 100 times,not partition with a tc state is the EU .very big difference.All land will be pre requisite for the agreement to go thru.it will not be 71-29 % split but closer to 80-20

You don't understand. This is NOT how politics work. You submit a proposal the other side submits it's own. I tell you they will agree to discuss partition but not the form you describe. From there on what? COMMON DENOMINATOR for both proposals is PARTITION. There you have it you get a cucumber pointing straight in your axx if you ever manage to escape from it send me a postcard.

[boulio]

It seems in the last few months that various journalist and think tanks are writing and putting forward the great taboo that maybe the best solution for cyprus is truly a agreed partition.I know many in this forum will be up in arms but would a tc state within the EU be better than a dis function confederal model because let's face it that's what has been discussed the last forty years by all cypriot presidents from all ideological spectrums.i have three articles by stavros lygeros a well respected greek journalist,Yusuf Kanli that always believed the cyprus problem ended in 1974 but has come to the realization that maybe two cypriot states working within the EU would be better and the ICG that is turkey's biggest supporter .

All three articles place the tc state within the EU and recognized,however for this recognition the tc state would need to be drastically reduced,respect the EU acquis and property rights of gc that the land is in the tc state.the turkish military would be withdrawn however the tc state can have a defense pact with turkey which is allowed within the EU.Lygeros idea even goes further stating that the two cypriot states even separate would hold on vote in the EU,when the both agree or disagree they vote,bg when the two disagree about something they abstain.guarantees rights would be abolished most likely the sba as well.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regions/e ... ality.aspx

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/cyprio ... sCatID=425

http://strategyreports.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/κυπριακό-η-επιστροφή-του-σχεδίου-ανάν/

I know people are going to go ballistic but won't both sides really get what they want and don't say it aloud.the Turks get their recognition and state the gc get a lot of territory back the rest get their property rights and the turkish military threat is gone.the island would become a coop of two states with a wide range of cooperation and in the future if the bonds materialize they can formally join as a true federation with pressure and cohesion with third party rights ahead of cypriot either greek or turkish.

We discussed this hundreds of times in this forum.
By the minute we even accept to discuss partition, the pseudo will be recognized.
Then all that will be left is territory to be given back. Negotiations will drag for eternity and in the end we will get not an inch back.

The worst BBF is better than partition. Because is has the potential to evolve into Unitary state over time.

You have discussed partition 100 times,not partition with a tc state is the EU .very big difference.All land will be pre requisite for the agreement to go thru.it will not be 71-29 % split but closer to 80-20

You don't understand. This is NOT how politics work. You submit a proposal the other side submits it's own. I tell you they will agree to discuss partition but not the form you describe. From there on what? COMMON DENOMINATOR for both proposals is PARTITION. There you have it you get a cucumber pointing straight in your axx if you ever manage to escape from it send me a postcard.

Common denominator in the articles is vast territory returned for recognition.YOu need the ROC signature for this to go thru.

[Kikapu]

Boulio,

I'm afraid I need to agree with GR, DT and Pyro comments on this tread. The proposals presented by Mr Bloody (Kanli) a neo partitionist, ICG (on Turkey’s payroll) and who ever the foreign Greek person was with the article, since it was all-Greek to me, all they are doing is regurgitating the Annan Plan of 2004. BBF is on the table, so what's wrong with True Federation, True Democracy Human Rights, EU Principles and International laws for a settlement, much what I had proposed before. It works just fine in the USA for over 200 years now consisting of 50 states. It will be a walk in the park with just 2 states in Cyprus. Why isn't Turkey allowing the TCs to agree on a BBF based on the above principles? The north still be in the EU, so why not. The 2 state solution proposal you are talking about in the EU is a 100% partition, so how does that differ from the AP had it been voted in? There's no difference.

Turkey will use the north state as a proxy in the EU. I mean, you don't think the TCs have a voice in what goes on in the north do you when the Illegal Alien settlers outnumber them? With your proposal, all Turkey needs to do is to convert all it's population in becoming EU citizens thanks to the north's EU state status. Then these Turks as EU citizens will flood the south EU state over time and settle there. Before you know it, it's “check-mate” for the GCs and the TCs in Cyprus as we know it and Turkey becomes the masters on the island again under a different name than the Ottomans. However, with a BBF with the above principles where the Federal government looks over the Federal states of the north and south, Turkey cannot do a thing in Cyprus and kept out of the EU matters. These are just one or two points. There are many more. I'm surprise at you for not thinking this out for yourself.

[MR-from-NG]

Boulio,

I'm afraid I need to agree with GR, DT and Pyro comments on this tread. The proposals presented by Mr Bloody (Kanli) a neo partitionist, ICG (on Turkey’s payroll) and who ever the foreign Greek person was with the article, since it was all-Greek to me, all they are doing is regurgitating the Annan Plan of 2004. BBF is on the table, so what's wrong with True Federation, True Democracy Human Rights, EU Principles and International laws for a settlement, much what I had proposed before. It works just fine in the USA for over 200 years now consisting of 50 states. It will be a walk in the park with just 2 states in Cyprus. Why isn't Turkey allowing the TCs to agree on a BBF based on the above principles? The north still be in the EU, so why not. The 2 state solution proposal you are talking about in the EU is a 100% partition, so how does that differ from the AP had it been voted in? There's no difference.

Turkey will use the north state as a proxy in the EU. I mean, you don't think the TCs have a voice in what goes on in the north do you when the Illegal Alien settlers outnumber them? With your proposal, all Turkey needs to do is to convert all it's population in becoming EU citizens thanks to the north's EU state status. Then these Turks as EU citizens will flood the south EU state over time and settle there. Before you know it, it's “check-mate” for the GCs and the TCs in Cyprus as we know it and Turkey becomes the masters on the island again under a different name than the Ottomans. However, with a BBF with the above principles where the Federal government looks over the Federal states of the north and south, Turkey cannot do a thing in Cyprus and kept out of the EU matters. These are just one or two points. There are many more. I'm surprise at you for not thinking this out for yourself.

Show me one thread (not tread) that you are not in agreement with Greeks on this forum and I promise you I will hand you over the keys to a nice convertible to drive to Cyprus in style with. This is a legally binding statement from me. One post that is against the Greeks and the car is yours.

[boulio]

Boulio,

I'm afraid I need to agree with GR, DT and Pyro comments on this tread. The proposals presented by Mr Bloody (Kanli) a neo partitionist, ICG (on Turkey’s payroll) and who ever the foreign Greek person was with the article, since it was all-Greek to me, all they are doing is regurgitating the Annan Plan of 2004. BBF is on the table, so what's wrong with True Federation, True Democracy Human Rights, EU Principles and International laws for a settlement, much what I had proposed before. It works just fine in the USA for over 200 years now consisting of 50 states. It will be a walk in the park with just 2 states in Cyprus. Why isn't Turkey allowing the TCs to agree on a BBF based on the above principles? The north still be in the EU, so why not. The 2 state solution proposal you are talking about in the EU is a 100% partition, so how does that differ from the AP had it been voted in? There's no difference.

Turkey will use the north state as a proxy in the EU. I mean, you don't think the TCs have a voice in what goes on in the north do you when the Illegal Alien settlers outnumber them? With your proposal, all Turkey needs to do is to convert all it's population in becoming EU citizens thanks to the north's EU state status. Then these Turks as EU citizens will flood the south EU state over time and settle there. Before you know it, it's “check-mate” for the GCs and the TCs in Cyprus as we know it and Turkey becomes the masters on the island again under a different name than the Ottomans. However, with a BBF with the above principles where the Federal government looks over the Federal states of the north and south, Turkey cannot do a thing in Cyprus and kept out of the EU matters. These are just one or two points. There are many more. I'm surprise at you for not thinking this out for yourself.

Im sorry Kikapu but what is being negotiated now and for the last 40 years is not a federation its a confederation or a very loose federation which will evolve to a partition with turkish intervention rights attached to make the roc and for that matter the north prtectarates of Turkey.it varys with the annan plan because the gurantees will be gone the SBA will be gone,each country will run its own affairs.THe Greek Journelist that you refer to is Stavros Lygeros who is a well respected journelist and also caught flak for writing this article but his thinking as is mine is that if its going to be another annan plan its better for a clean partition and the tc entity fast tracked into the EU.HE writes in his article about the population derogation on both side for the gc state and tc state with a popilation ratio to be 4 to 1 and adresses many other things as well.IM not A proponent of partition but its better what what is being negotiated now.THis is my opinion and to be honest im afraid that there will be a "accident" in the eastern Med and we see weird things at the UNSC against cyprus in the future.

[zan]

Look at the reality. It has been you lot that have refused to empower us as TCs to further our existence and now you use it against us.

It’s not in any country’s interests to empower minorities of any kind… why don’t you take some tips from Turkey which you are so fond of?

In every country of the world and throughout the history of mankind, if a minority peacefully coexists it is left alone but if it seeks autonomy it is persecuted.

Call it “natural selection”, call it man’s control-freak nature, call it whatever you want I don’t care… but that’s how it is.

If Cyprus was to grant a handful of TCs power then what happens next year when the Russian community wants power too? And what about 5 years from now when the Jewish community grows and wants partition too?

You think we’re going to be playing cut & paste for the rest of out existence so us to respect “your rights”? What about the rights of that country’s identity and existence? You think you’re more important?

You think that’s how the world works? What are you stupid?

Here’s how it normally works… you get a couple of warnings from the government to cut the crap and if you don’t they send their national guard and cut you to pieces… but don’t take it from me just ask the Kurds in east Turkey.

So just because you have Turkey foolishly interfering in the natural order of this country (and against the interests of everybody including Turkey) doesn’t mean that you have special rights now.

So get over yourselves!

I/we are fully paid up equal member of the Cyprus Republic not a minority. It is not your say to demote us to minority status. The "RoC" however has the option to recognise this fact and pull the rug from under turkey by empowering the TCs in the talks. Two separate issues. Of course you won't because you believe the two to be one because it suits you. Then moan to the world. They have become much wiser these days as to the truth GR. You are sitting upside down on a donkey. Even Nasretin Hoca sat on top but back to front.

[repulsewarrior]

..and why boulio do you think the same old farts, our "elite", tend to debate the same argument for all these years. why the lie that they are "Cypriots", seeking to better themselves? as you say, they are more preoccupied with their "Greekness", or their "Turkishness", because they can manipulate this adversity, and as such they can stay in power.

...I don't want to be a "Greek", I am Greek, I want to be a better Human being. and as a Cypriot I know what that means, one Flag flies higher, I will not sacrifice my Freedom as an Individual, for the Persons who demand instead their Liberty.

...the reality that no one dares talk about is the fact that never has there been a voice of Greeks as Greeks in Cyprus; this is what is asked for by the Turcophones, (in effect, by demanding a voice of their own), and in my opinion, Cyprus would be better for it. beyond these distinctions a People, united because they seek to demonstrate the Universal Principals all Mankind shares, in one Government, as well as a love for Cyprus, the island for which, they, are the stewards.

boulio, the Republic exists. it is for our benefit, not as Greeks or as Turks, but as Cypriots (as is our responsibility, toward all Mankind). if you believe in Cyprus, fight for its political reform, and clearly it is dysfunctional since its appeal to the population as a whole, fails. where is the Greek Constituency, I ask. even if we were to return to the Constitution of 1960, it would remain the obligation of the Greek Community to fill the seats in the Communal Chamber.

...all these experts, (so called), now focused on butchering the word Bizonal, now that they are done with Bicommunal, as far as they are concerned done in and not worth repeating as a word. wake up. new thinking, and intent, is needed. more of the same is this war that will be forever, if we divide ourselves willingly, so that we are Cypriots, no more.