Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

there is a new subject in the world of economics borrower lender relationship which the world has not quite fully grasped.
if you owe the bank 1 million and cant pay it back you have a problem the bank has collateral worth 4 million from you and will take it from you

on the other hand if you owe the 240 billion and the bank has no collateral then it is the bank that has the problem.

no doubt the lenders will recover quickly, but the price will be paid by the griik peobol.

has terggy collapsed yet kikapu

[Jerry]

It's all very well to hypothesise about the consequences of "yes" or "no" but negative vote will mean there's no cash in the banks next week and it will be the ordinary citizen who goes hungry not the smart-arse politicians. I saw the Greek Finance Minister last night on TV, he said the banks will be open on Monday regardless, they are playing poker with people's lives. Most Greeks want to stay in the Euro, to do that they must cave in to the lenders and vote yes and then in the light of the IMF statement that the "debt repayments are unsustainable" the terms will have to be renegotiated.

Interesting insight into IMF thinking means that better terms have to be offered.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... 50bn-euros

[Pyrpolizer]

Does the European Central Bank have the legal right to refuse liquidity to any Bank in the Eurozone when the Bank itself is healthy?

The Euros of a Greek person either deposited in Greece or in France are still money of that person. He should be able to withdraw them from anywhere in Europe .Unless the Bank in which he has his deposits has gone bankrupt in which case both the local Central Bank and the European Central Bank still share EQUAL responsibility of happening and are BOTH equally liable for damages. Isn't this what they THEMSELVES have done to Cyprus by loading us with 9 billions dept from Ex Laiki Bank when she was actually bankrupt by only half a billion? Whose fault was it the rest of the 8.5 billions, wasn't it the fault of the EU central Bank who continued supplying Laiki with ELA while she was Bankrupt?

If the Banks in Greece have to close because the EU central Bank refuses liquidity to them, then the Greek depositor could claim his deposits either directly from the EU Central Bank or indirectly from any other EU Bank the EU central Bank has under her authority. And if liquidity problem arises in ALL EUROZONE Banks, then they should ALL close ,or ALL apply capital controls, not just the Greek ones.

[B25]

I cannot vouch for its credibility but read this:

http://wire.novaramedia.com/2015/06/in- ... hs-busted/

It makes some interesting and valid points

[Nikitas]

"Yes, Greece does have options"

Kikapu, it does have options, but not with these narcissistic dogmatic neostalinists in power.

Listening to them on the radio through the day is frightening. To give some sample statements from the last 48 hours-

People gather at the ATMS, so what, they will get used to it, Lapavitsas

We chose the referendum as an experiment, Lafazanis (that name gets me every time)

We did have an agreement but we could not bring it to parliament because our party would not vote for it and that would cause an election, so we chose a referendum instead, Tsakalotos

Monday, with a yes or a no, we start negotiating , Baroufakis (no you don't replied Daisselbloom)

The military guarantee internal and external stability, Kammenos (that was a chilling one)

This is a circus, not a government that can lay an organized plan with pre determined goals.

[Jerry]

Does the European Central Bank have the legal right to refuse liquidity to any Bank in the Eurozone when the Bank itself is healthy?

The Euros of a Greek person either deposited in Greece or in France are still money of that person. He should be able to withdraw them from anywhere in Europe .Unless the Bank in which he has his deposits has gone bankrupt in which case both the local Central Bank and the European Central Bank still share EQUAL responsibility of happening and are BOTH equally liable for damages. Isn't this what they THEMSELVES have done to Cyprus by loading us with 9 billions dept from Ex Laiki Bank when she was actually bankrupt by only half a billion? Whose fault was it the rest of the 8.5 billions, wasn't it the fault of the EU central Bank who continued supplying Laiki with ELA while she was Bankrupt?

If the Banks in Greece have to close because the EU central Bank refuses liquidity to them, then the Greek depositor could claim his deposits either directly from the EU Central Bank or indirectly from any other EU Bank the EU central Bank has under her authority. And if liquidity problem arises in ALL EUROZONE Banks, then they should ALL close ,or ALL apply capital controls, not just the Greek ones.

It's all very well saying what should happen but the plain fact is money is not circulating because people can't get it and when they do get it they hang onto it and only spend it on essentials. That raises another problem, because the banks are closed small coinage is in short supply so traders can't give change for euro notes. Greek people need cash today not in a few weeks time, only a yes vote will secure immediate emergency funding. Hopefully that will mean the end of the amateur big-shot politicians and a return to reality with the usual professional crooked politicians.

Interesting what happened in Argentina, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33324363

[Paphitis]

Does the European Central Bank have the legal right to refuse liquidity to any Bank in the Eurozone when the Bank itself is healthy?

The Euros of a Greek person either deposited in Greece or in France are still money of that person. He should be able to withdraw them from anywhere in Europe .Unless the Bank in which he has his deposits has gone bankrupt in which case both the local Central Bank and the European Central Bank still share EQUAL responsibility of happening and are BOTH equally liable for damages. Isn't this what they THEMSELVES have done to Cyprus by loading us with 9 billions dept from Ex Laiki Bank when she was actually bankrupt by only half a billion? Whose fault was it the rest of the 8.5 billions, wasn't it the fault of the EU central Bank who continued supplying Laiki with ELA while she was Bankrupt?

If the Banks in Greece have to close because the EU central Bank refuses liquidity to them, then the Greek depositor could claim his deposits either directly from the EU Central Bank or indirectly from any other EU Bank the EU central Bank has under her authority. And if liquidity problem arises in ALL EUROZONE Banks, then they should ALL close ,or ALL apply capital controls, not just the Greek ones.

It's all very well saying what should happen but the plain fact is money is not circulating because people can't get it and when they do get it they hang onto it and only spend it on essentials. That raises another problem, because the banks are closed small coinage is in short supply so traders can't give change for euro notes. Greek people need cash today not in a few weeks time, only a yes vote will secure immediate emergency funding. Hopefully that will mean the end of the amateur big-shot politicians and a return to reality with the usual professional crooked politicians.

Interesting what happened in Argentina, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33324363

It will also mean the end of Greek Youth in Greece unless of course they are from a wealthy family.
Greece will only be for the wealthy.

Greece needs a reduction of its debt to 100% of GDP. It is currently about 190%.

Greece is also paying an interest spread between 6 and 10.5%, while the USA are paying under 1%.

If they don't get the haircut, then they should default and send the markets into a spin.

The pain inflicted on all Greek citizens is short term compared to decades upon decades of Austerity where Greek workers are working for peanuts and pensioners are below the poverty line and their youth can't find jobs.

[Jerry]

It will also mean the end of Greek Youth in Greece unless of course they are from a wealthy family.
Greece will only be for the wealthy.

Greece needs a reduction of its debt to 100% of GDP. It is currently about 190%.

Greece is also paying an interest spread between 6 and 10.5%, while the USA are paying under 1%.

If they don't get the haircut, then they should default and send the markets into a spin.

The pain inflicted on all Greek citizens is short term compared to decades upon decades of Austerity where Greek workers are working for peanuts and pensioners are below the poverty line and their youth can't find jobs.

Greece pays a lower % of its GDP in debt repayment than other European countries. It's getting progressively worse because the amateurs "running" the country think it's a poker game.

Go and tell the citizens of Greece they will only have to go hungry "short term", that should cheer them up.

Let's have a source for your 6 and 10.5%

Given that interest rates have fallen significantly from 2014, actual interest expenditures of Greece will be likely below 2pc of GDP in 2015, if Greece will meet the conditions of the bail-out programm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... ntain.html

[Paphitis]

It will also mean the end of Greek Youth in Greece unless of course they are from a wealthy family.
Greece will only be for the wealthy.

Greece needs a reduction of its debt to 100% of GDP. It is currently about 190%.

Greece is also paying an interest spread between 6 and 10.5%, while the USA are paying under 1%.

If they don't get the haircut, then they should default and send the markets into a spin.

The pain inflicted on all Greek citizens is short term compared to decades upon decades of Austerity where Greek workers are working for peanuts and pensioners are below the poverty line and their youth can't find jobs.

Greece pays a lower % of its GDP in debt repayment than other European countries. It's getting progressively worse because the amateurs "running" the country think it's a poker game.

Go and tell the citizens of Greece they will only have to go hungry "short term", that should cheer them up.

Let's have a source for your 6 and 10.5%

Given that interest rates have fallen significantly from 2014, actual interest expenditures of Greece will be likely below 2pc of GDP in 2015, if Greece will meet the conditions of the bail-out programm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... ntain.html

At one stage, Greece was paying 17% in interest. You look for the source yourself. The rates are readily available for Greek Bonds on the Internet. They are also shown on CNBC, Bloomberg, Sky News and BBC Business.

The choice is not a good one but yes, it's only logical that short term starvation is a damn sight better than long term starvation and slave labour and no future for 3 generations at least.

I am speaking to local Greeks now, and whilst some will vote YES, many will vote NO because they can't see an exit or sustainable debt management for decades.

[Jerry]

It will also mean the end of Greek Youth in Greece unless of course they are from a wealthy family.
Greece will only be for the wealthy.

Greece needs a reduction of its debt to 100% of GDP. It is currently about 190%.

Greece is also paying an interest spread between 6 and 10.5%, while the USA are paying under 1%.

If they don't get the haircut, then they should default and send the markets into a spin.

The pain inflicted on all Greek citizens is short term compared to decades upon decades of Austerity where Greek workers are working for peanuts and pensioners are below the poverty line and their youth can't find jobs.

Greece pays a lower % of its GDP in debt repayment than other European countries. It's getting progressively worse because the amateurs "running" the country think it's a poker game.

Go and tell the citizens of Greece they will only have to go hungry "short term", that should cheer them up.

Let's have a source for your 6 and 10.5%

Given that interest rates have fallen significantly from 2014, actual interest expenditures of Greece will be likely below 2pc of GDP in 2015, if Greece will meet the conditions of the bail-out programm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... ntain.html

At one stage, Greece was paying 17% in interest. You look for the source yourself. The rates are readily available for Greek Bonds on the Internet. They are also shown on CNBC, Bloomberg, Sky News and BBC Business.

The choice is not a good one but yes, it's only logical that short term starvation is a damn sight better than long term starvation and slave labour and no future for 3 generations at least.

I am speaking to local Greeks now, and whilst some will vote YES, many will vote NO because they can't see an exit or sustainable debt management for decades.

No, I've looked and can't find a source that says the ECB or IMF charge Greece anything like 17%, stop making things up or give me a link to a reliable source.