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The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Paphitis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:46 pm

Sotos wrote:First of all I do not agree with what Trump did. There is a similarity between Cyprus and Palestine (the occupation) but historically they are not similar. Israel is the historic land of the Israelis who lived in that territory before the Arabs. On the other hand the Turks have no deep roots in Cyprus... and they are just invaders and illegal occupiers. That said, I've been to Israel, and a lot of the Israelis are obviously Slavic and others are black. I have nothing against Slavs or Blacks, but clearly these aren't descendants of those who once inhabited the area. They are just foreigners who happen to be Jews. To claim that somebody deserves land in Palestine just because he happens to be a Jew is ridiculous. Given the history, it would be best if Jerusalem was shared with a special status.


Well the fact is, US recognition of Jerusalem is a watershed moment for Israel. Their Capital, is officially recognized by USA.

Whether you regard the Bible as legit or not, it is littered with references to the 12 tribes of Israel which habitated some of the Levant, and into Egypt and Sinai many thousands of years ago (4000 years ago at least), before the Romans and certainly way before any Muslims or Ottomans.

No one can erase this history or revise it.

Making special provisions for Jerusalem is just pathetic. Let's say Mecca was important to Christians, there is no chance the Saudis would allow a special international zone within their borders.

The Israelis have got what they want, and for me as a Christian, I am far more welcoming of Israeli control over Jerusalem than a shared zone with Muslims. Judaism is the pre-cursor to Christianity so we have far more in common for starters, and most people might not know but Jews (Israelis) are in fact what you would call Crypto Christians themselves. Most of them (apart from Orthodox Jews) or the right wing elements acknowledged Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that their people made a huge mistake 2000 years ago.

I agree with Oracle. Jerusalem under Israeli control (which it is), Nicosia IS the capital of Cyprus and the fact it is illegally divided is a major international injustice, and that Constantinople is traditionally Byzantine Greek.

And the Bible is probably the one of the most legitimate historical references known to man. Yes some of the stories could be mythlogy but it contains historical and undisputed references within it and it is a book of parables which I would say are more Philosophically based about the nature of man and it builds on all the work famous Greek and Roman scholars and philosophers have done beforehand.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby yialousa1971 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:17 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Sotos wrote:First of all I do not agree with what Trump did. There is a similarity between Cyprus and Palestine (the occupation) but historically they are not similar. Israel is the historic land of the Israelis who lived in that territory before the Arabs. On the other hand the Turks have no deep roots in Cyprus... and they are just invaders and illegal occupiers. That said, I've been to Israel, and a lot of the Israelis are obviously Slavic and others are black. I have nothing against Slavs or Blacks, but clearly these aren't descendants of those who once inhabited the area. They are just foreigners who happen to be Jews. To claim that somebody deserves land in Palestine just because he happens to be a Jew is ridiculous. Given the history, it would be best if Jerusalem was shared with a special status.


Well the fact is, US recognition of Jerusalem is a watershed moment for Israel. Their Capital, is officially recognized by USA.

Whether you regard the Bible as legit or not, it is littered with references to the 12 tribes of Israel which habitated some of the Levant, and into Egypt and Sinai many thousands of years ago (4000 years ago at least), before the Romans and certainly way before any Muslims or Ottomans.

No one can erase this history or revise it.

Making special provisions for Jerusalem is just pathetic. Let's say Mecca was important to Christians, there is no chance the Saudis would allow a special international zone within their borders.

The Israelis have got what they want, and for me as a Christian, I am far more welcoming of Israeli control over Jerusalem than a shared zone with Muslims. Judaism is the pre-cursor to Christianity so we have far more in common for starters, and most people might not know but Jews (Israelis) are in fact what you would call Crypto Christians themselves. Most of them (apart from Orthodox Jews) or the right wing elements acknowledged Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that their people made a huge mistake 2000 years ago.

I agree with Oracle. Jerusalem under Israeli control (which it is), Nicosia IS the capital of Cyprus and the fact it is illegally divided is a major international injustice, and that Constantinople is traditionally Byzantine Greek.

And the Bible is probably the one of the most legitimate historical references known to man. Yes some of the stories could be mythlogy but it contains historical and undisputed references within it and it is a book of parables which I would say are more Philosophically based about the nature of man and it builds on all the work famous Greek and Roman scholars and philosophers have done beforehand.


I thought it was a one off post. :lol: Anyway welcome back Koala. :mrgreen:
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby yialousa1971 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 pm

Jerusalem’s top Christians warn Trump of ‘violence & suffering’ if city recognized as Israel capital

We are certain that such steps will yield increased hatred, conflict, violence and suffering in Jerusalem and the Holy Land, moving us farther from the goal of unity and deeper toward destructive division,” wrote the leaders of the Greek Orthodox, Coptic, Catholic, and other branches of Christianity that are represented in the city.

“Our solemn advice and plea is for the United States to continue recognizing the present international status of Jerusalem. Any sudden changes would cause irreparable harm,” reads the letter, which insists that “the Holy City can be shared.


https://www.rt.com/news/412159-christia ... p-capital/
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Sotos » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:30 pm

But how related are the people of the 12 tribes of Israel with the people of modern day Israel? A lot of them don't even look middle eastern, they look like Slavs or even Africans... because they are Slavs and Africans! There is also a question about Palestinians... sure there were no Muslims 4000 years ago, but this doesn't mean that the ancestors of Palestinians did not inhabit the area since then. There were no Christians 4000 years ago either, this doesn't mean that because Cypriots today are Christians, that Cypriots didn't exist 4000 years ago. Also, you shouldn't take Bible literally. All mythologies have lots of exaggerations to say the least. Obviously the Jews would write their own mythology in a way that suited them.

Jews (Israelis) are in fact what you would call Crypto Christians themselves. Most of them (apart from Orthodox Jews) or the right wing elements acknowledged Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that their people made a huge mistake 2000 years ago.


That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard for a while! If they believed they made a mistake then they would just convert to Christianity! What is the point of being a Jew if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby yialousa1971 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:52 pm

Sotos wrote:But how related are the people of the 12 tribes of Israel with the people of modern day Israel? A lot of them don't even look middle eastern, they look like Slavs or even Africans... because they are Slavs and Africans! There is also a question about Palestinians... sure there were no Muslims 4000 years ago, but this doesn't mean that the ancestors of Palestinians did not inhabit the area since then. There were no Christians 4000 years ago either, this doesn't mean that because Cypriots today are Christians, that Cypriots didn't exist 4000 years ago. Also, you shouldn't take Bible literally. All mythologies have lots of exaggerations to say the least. Obviously the Jews would write their own mythology in a way that suited them.

Jews (Israelis) are in fact what you would call Crypto Christians themselves. Most of them (apart from Orthodox Jews) or the right wing elements acknowledged Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that their people made a huge mistake 2000 years ago.


That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard for a while! If they believed they made a mistake then they would just convert to Christianity! What is the point of being a Jew if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah.


Who are they? I will tell you later. :wink:
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Paphitis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:51 pm

Sotos wrote:But how related are the people of the 12 tribes of Israel with the people of modern day Israel? A lot of them don't even look middle eastern, they look like Slavs or even Africans... because they are Slavs and Africans! There is also a question about Palestinians... sure there were no Muslims 4000 years ago, but this doesn't mean that the ancestors of Palestinians did not inhabit the area since then. There were no Christians 4000 years ago either, this doesn't mean that because Cypriots today are Christians, that Cypriots didn't exist 4000 years ago. Also, you shouldn't take Bible literally. All mythologies have lots of exaggerations to say the least. Obviously the Jews would write their own mythology in a way that suited them.

Jews (Israelis) are in fact what you would call Crypto Christians themselves. Most of them (apart from Orthodox Jews) or the right wing elements acknowledged Jesus Christ as The Messiah and that their people made a huge mistake 2000 years ago.


That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard for a while! If they believed they made a mistake then they would just convert to Christianity! What is the point of being a Jew if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah.


Sotos,

Culturally, linguistically, religiously, they are related. Ethnically, I have no clue how related they are. Over thousands of years, Jews as well as every other group of people mixed with other influences as did The Ancient Greeks, Cypriots and every other race or religious grouping because that is what the Jews are. You can be African and a Jew. But like the Greeks, the Jews are very culturally tight and they try to close themselves off from external influences.

Now, if you take the Bible literally (which I don’t), then we are all descended from the 12 Tribes of Israel. 10 of these tribes were lost. The 12 Tribes included all races of people, including Arab (Ismael) and Blacks. It is said by the Jews themselves that the Greeks are descended from the Lost Tribe of Dan. You need to read Genesis and Exodus to understand it all. In fact there is antidotal evidence by them that the Greeks are the most closely related to their people and Greeks connect all kinds of references including some famous quotes by Kissinger about the Greeks being uncontrollable like Israelites. That is if you believe in certain NWO conspiracy theories which some do. Ismael, the descendant of Arab was the result of Abraham’s fornication with one of his servants if I am not mistaken. The entire Genealogy of Man is explained in Genesis. If you are Christian, then ultimately, Jacob or Israel who is ultimately our descendant and comes from Abraham gave birth to 12 Sons which became the 12 Tribes of which 10 are lost (not literally) and 2 form what the Jews believe to be Their Nation and from which The Theotokos and Jesus Christ are descended from (Judah).

The Jews don’t actually hold on to racial or ethnic lines like Greeks and others do. So the question you ask is rather complex and can’t be answered.

The reason why the Jews do not admit their “mistake” or publically accept Christianity is because they will then shoot themselves in the foot in terms of the Jewish State and The Promised Land which has its roots in the Old Testament. There was however a public acknowledgement from The Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem that Jesus Christ was in fact their Messiah which they have been waiting for according to the prophecies of the Old Testament or The Torah. In addition, if you ask them, they will turn around and tell you that they believe in Jesus Christ. They will tell you of their regret over the crucifixion and their role as part of that under Pontius.

But again, if you take the Bible literally as many Christians (especially Orthodox Christians) do, then the crucifixion was actually prophesized by Isaac, Jacob, and Moses. It was God’s will to take away Man’s evilness and sin so that fallen Man can be saved. God sent his only begotten Son who is of one essence with God and The Holy Spirit and sacrificed Him to save us. So the Jews only played their role according to the prophecies and God’s very own script or will.

Fascinating stuff. Anyone who thinks all this is irrelevant is just plainly stupid! The Bible is a journey. Everyone should study it, including Atheists and Agnostics. I always carry an official Orthodox version of it when I travel and read about 4 pages of it each day if I got time. I am still at the Old Testament currently. And I follow the teachings.

If you claim to be an Atheist or Agnostic (which I also claim to be), then you better make an informed decision by knowing the subject fully and the only way you can do that is by actually reading the Bible. You better know the subject completely in order to be sure that you have employed correct reasoning. It is a hard book to break down. A book of parables which teaches you many things Philosophically at the very least. For others it is a whole lot more - Jews and Christians.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby kurupetos » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:25 am

Melbourne Zoo's missing a koala! Is it you? :lol:
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Get Real! » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:33 am

I’m not gonna get into arguing for or against Jews; or whoever is currently living in Israel, because it’s not my problem but I will say that I’m glad Paphitis got stuck into the bible… I think everyone should sooner or later.

There’s lots of good stuff in there… some that cannot be proven and some that have. It’s a good cross-reference for a whole bunch of other things.

But anyway, like I said before… you don’t even need the bible to acknowledge the creator of the universe but simple common sense:

You can all take this simple test to see if God exists...

1. Does the universe exist? – CHECK!

2. Is something responsible for the universe's existence? – CHECK!

3. Is this “something” an unknown? – CHECK!

4. Can we give unknowns labels so as to identify them like we do in Maths? – CHECK!

Good! Many of us use the label “GOD” but feel free to use “XJD2740” if it makes you feel better!

See? Wasn’t that easy? :)
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:08 am

Get Real! wrote:I’m not gonna get into arguing for or against Jews; or whoever is currently living in Israel, because it’s not my problem but I will say that I’m glad Paphitis got stuck into the bible… I think everyone should sooner or later.

There’s lots of good stuff in there… some that cannot be proven and some that have. It’s a good cross-reference for a whole bunch of other things.

But anyway, like I said before… you don’t even need the bible to acknowledge the creator of the universe but simple common sense:

You can all take this simple test to see if God exists...

1. Does the universe exist? – CHECK!

2. Is something responsible for the universe's existence? – CHECK!

3. Is this “something” an unknown? – CHECK!

4. Can we give unknowns labels so as to identify them like we do in Maths? – CHECK!

Good! Many of us use the label “GOD” but feel free to use “XJD2740” if it makes you feel better!

See? Wasn’t that easy? :)


The Bible doesn’t solve the conundrum of the existence of God. For me it opens many more questions and thousands of inconsistencies which need scientific explaining before I am ready to accept the existence of God.
But yeh sure! It’s a relevant historical source. It is also an extremely valid Philosophical Book on ethics, morality, the mortality of man, and it has relevant teachings for humanity as do many other books. You got to remember, it’s a 3500 year document.

And no, God is not immune to scientific analysis especially when the Bible talks about Genesis or creation of the earth, stars, Sun, the universe, light, Man, and all creatures that walk, or creep and slither.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Get Real! » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:25 am

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