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The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:20 am

This situation created by Trumps statement has absolutely nothing to do with Religion. it is 100% a political move!

The Jews have always had a religious presence in Jerusalem as have the Christians and Muslims. The problem arises when the Zionists declared they would make it their EXCLUSIVE capital, even those who are genuine Jews but not Zionists do not agree with that. Once you learn the difference between the religion of Judaism and the political entity of Zionism, you can only then understand what is going on in the Middle East.

The Zionists have almost total control over the US through their ownership of Wall Street, the Banks and other financial institutions, the media and the large corporations. They are the largest single lobby in the US Senate, with the arms and pharmaceutical lobbies being second. Their intervention in US politics and US elections is undeniable. The US is the only country that has much of its foreign policy dictated by another state. Check it out!

The problem is Zionism NOT Judaism. Jews, Christians and Muslims in the area have lived together for centuries it was only when Zionists used Judaism as their platform around 1840 (as they do today with the holocaust) that the trouble starts. Trump has made a political decision not a religious one and any Jew who is not a Zionist will tell him that.

A situation of joint custody of the Holy City of Jerusalem by the three religions has existed for centuries. Attitudes only began to change with the Zionists demands for an exclusive Jewish homeland in Palestine with an undivided Jerusalem as their capital and that has bred the violence. The Trump recognition of their illegal claim to Jerusalem as their exclusive capital city has just added fuel to the fire.

With his stupid declaration to appease Netanyahu and his Zionist supporters Trump has lit the fuse to a powder keg and we could ALL regret the outcome.


Paphitis:

Welcome back to the fray, or is it just temporary? I didn’t realise you were an expert on Theology, I am impressed .......... personally I have no time for any organised religion. :|
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Sotos » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:41 am

Culturally, linguistically, religiously, they are related. Ethnically, I have no clue how related they are. Over thousands of years, Jews as well as every other group of people mixed with other influences as did The Ancient Greeks, Cypriots and every other race or religious grouping because that is what the Jews are. You can be African and a Jew. But like the Greeks, the Jews are very culturally tight and they try to close themselves off from external influences.


When it comes to property, that is inherited from parents to children. So having the same religion with some other people doesn't give you any inheritance rights.

Now, if you take the Bible literally...


I don't. Imagine if some foreigners came to occupy our land and as an excuse they gave what is written in THEIR holly book! Some things written in such books are based on facts, other are pure fantasy. I am not an expert on the history of Israel / Palestine so I can't come to conclusions but any discussions should leave out the Holy books of each side, and just concentrate on the historical facts. What I do know is what I said: Slavs and Blacks can't possibly have their roots in Middle East, so those people can't be "returning" to their land, they are occupiers of land that never belonged to them or their actual ancestors.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Get Real! » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:43 pm

To those who want to get biblical about the argument for Jerusalem being the capital of Jews, it can in fact be wrapped up very quickly:

Israel cannot refer to portions of scripture that suits them while ignoring other important parts which clearly state that Jews CANNOT and SHOULD not have a nation/state until God returns, let alone a capital!

So, if Israel *really* wants to go by the Book... they are in fact transgressing!

Feel free to ask a Rabbi... he'll confirm what I said!
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:00 pm

Get Real! wrote:To those who want to get biblical about the argument for Jerusalem being the capital of Jews, it can in fact be wrapped up very quickly:

Israel cannot refer to portions of scripture that suits them while ignoring other important parts which clearly state that Jews CANNOT and SHOULD not have a nation/state until God returns, let alone a capital!

So, if Israel *really* wants to go by the Book... they are in fact transgressing!

Feel free to ask a Rabbi... he'll confirm what I said!


Yes they are waiting for the Messiah to lead them to the Promised Land which is where they currently are. Which is why, some Orthodox Jews do not believe that the State of Israel is the Promised land as created by their Messiah.

Which is why they also took Jesus as an imposter and not their Messiah.

But, their Messiah has come, and had gone and was resurrected and now all that is left to occur is the second coming. And according to the scriptures, Israel will prevail and be created as The Kingdom of God. Which basically say's to me, that Israel is in fact Heaven and the Promised Land. All other Nations will be destroyed. That's if you believe all that stuff that is. So Israel is the Church body. That is what makes the Bible intriguing. It's a book of parables. You need to decipher the true meaning out of virtually every paragraph and it is very cryptic.

Ay the end of the day, I think its a fascinating book. The only confirmation I have is that the Israelis belong where they are in The Levant. They do not belong in Eastern Europe, Tasmania, Cyprus, Greece, Britian, or USA but they belong in Jerusalem.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:16 pm

Sotos wrote:
Culturally, linguistically, religiously, they are related. Ethnically, I have no clue how related they are. Over thousands of years, Jews as well as every other group of people mixed with other influences as did The Ancient Greeks, Cypriots and every other race or religious grouping because that is what the Jews are. You can be African and a Jew. But like the Greeks, the Jews are very culturally tight and they try to close themselves off from external influences.


When it comes to property, that is inherited from parents to children. So having the same religion with some other people doesn't give you any inheritance rights.

Now, if you take the Bible literally...


I don't. Imagine if some foreigners came to occupy our land and as an excuse they gave what is written in THEIR holly book! Some things written in such books are based on facts, other are pure fantasy. I am not an expert on the history of Israel / Palestine so I can't come to conclusions but any discussions should leave out the Holy books of each side, and just concentrate on the historical facts. What I do know is what I said: Slavs and Blacks can't possibly have their roots in Middle East, so those people can't be "returning" to their land, they are occupiers of land that never belonged to them or their actual ancestors.


Yes I agree. We should take just the historical facts. And if we are to do that, we know that the Israelites pre-date Muslims in the area. Now as to the DNA composition as to who exactly these Israelites are, the only other definite fact is that our Orthodox faith and the Early Eastern Church beginning with The Theotokos, Jesus and the 12 Disciples is entirely based on venerating these holy Jewish figures who are Israelites from the Tribe of Judah and which inhabited Jerusalem almost exclusively during that period.

But what exactly is Greek DNA? Is a Greek in Northern Greece exactly the same race as a Greek from Crete? is a Greek from the island of Rhodos exactly the same as a Greek from Kerkira? No of course they are not. What connects them are things they have in common with regard to their cultures, language, food, song and dance. Of course there are subtle differences there as well, but ultimately they are connected culturally. If you look at thje genetics, they could be completely different.

The same with Turks. If you look at so called Turks on the West Coast, you will see they even look different to the Asiatic Turks of East. Those on the West Coast have noticeable Greek features and are probably more closely related to Greeks than the Asiatic Turks of the East. But again, they are connected culturally and linguistically.

So, we can see that race is pretty much a very subjective thing which isn't based on genetics or science in some cases as we apply it in the real world.

I have no doubt that Israelis of today have different DNA to that of the Tribe of Judah. But like modern Greeks claim Ancient Greece as their inheritance, today's Israelis or Jews claim a connection to the 2 tribes of Israel. They claim Jerusalem to be their Holy City. Christians also have a claim over Jerusalem. but the order of priority is as follows:

JEWS > Christians > Muslims

Jews have first option and as far as I am concerned, rightful ownership and good luck to them. All based on historical fact as per the bible of all sources which I consider to be a very accurate historical source as to what exactly took place 2000 odd years ago.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Sotos » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:45 pm

This is not about Greek DNA or Jewish DNA. Anybody can be Jewish regardless of their DNA. No problem for Slavs and Blacks to be Jewish. But being Jewish doesn't mean you have any property rights in the middle east. If Russians take Constantinople can they claim that they "return" to their own land, just because they are also Orthodox Christians? Or can a Greek from Athens "return" to Morfou? In order to return somewhere it means that you or your direct ancestors come from that place. Having the same religion or ethnic group is not enough.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:57 pm

Where do the Zionists fit into this fascinating story? :roll:

In the beginning ......... not my words but ...........

Theodor Herzl is considered the founder of the Modern Zionist movement. In his 1896 book Der Judenstaat, he envisioned the founding of a future independent Jewish state during the 20th century. However, the history of Zionism began earlier and is related to Judaism and Jewish history. It was left to Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), an Austro-Hungarian Jewish journalist, to give a political dimension to the concept of Zionism. ... The origin of the term 'Zionism' is the biblical word 'Zion', often used as a synonym for Jerusalem and the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael).

The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897. Though modern Zionism actually originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, it is in many ways a continuation of the ancient attachment of the Jews and of the Jewish religion to the historical region of Palestine, where one of the hills of ancient Jerusalem was called Zion. So history says the land is Palestine not Israel?

As it says, they had an ‘attachment’ .......... they had lived there as just another tribe in the region until they were virtually exterminated or dispersed by the Romans.

Forget all the religious connotations the problems in this area started when Zionists tried to implement Theodor Herzls vision. They lied to the World (no internet or independent media in those days) that Palestine was ’a land without people for a people without a land’.

But people already livid there and had done so for over a thousand years .... the Zionists conveniently overlooked that trivial fact. They then used their political power and blackmail to bring the US into WWI on the side of the British. At that point the British were within a few weeks of losing the war to Germany. So, this is not the first time the Zionists have used a US President (Maybe through blackmail .... again?) to achieve their political ends.


IMO: The status of Jerusalem as determined by various UN Resolutions, is the only solution that can prevent more violence and bloodshed in this region. Basically it maintains and legally enforces, the independence of the City of Jerusalem as a cultural and religious centre with equal say for all three religions .......... not just the one. :x
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:50 pm

Sotos wrote:This is not about Greek DNA or Jewish DNA. Anybody can be Jewish regardless of their DNA. No problem for Slavs and Blacks to be Jewish. But being Jewish doesn't mean you have any property rights in the middle east. If Russians take Constantinople can they claim that they "return" to their own land, just because they are also Orthodox Christians? Or can a Greek from Athens "return" to Morfou? In order to return somewhere it means that you or your direct ancestors come from that place. Having the same religion or ethnic group is not enough.


But they didn't take. It was handed to then in 1948 by the British.

Sure they took some areas in the West Bank, Golan Heights and perhaps maybe you can say they control Gaza Strip (they don't really control it at all), and the eastern Quarter of Jerusalem.

They also took Sinai but they handed all that back in 1980 as part of a peace treaty with the Egyptians. Evidence that they are willing and able to make peace settlements unlike Turkey which practically isn't and will not leave Cyprus.

Yes it is true that you and I can convert and become Jewish. But a Brit and a jew can also convert and become Greek Orthodox.

I think the term race as applied today is very loose as compared to what it was a few centuries ago. There are African Greeks, Slav Greeks, people from the Subcontinent who call themselves Greek, and Asian Greek and they really do call themselves ethnically Greek rather than just a National.

The same with the Jews. I claim to be Israelites and Hebrew and connected to the people that inhabited Jerusalem thousands of years ago, much like Greeks claim to be related to Ancient Greeks and much like Cypriots also claim to be related to Ancient Greeks. I have no doubt Greeks might be but to say Cypriots are is a bit more of a stretch. They do however share the same language, traditions and customs and that does count for something in terms of their 'identity' as it does with the Israelis as well. The Israelis are however a group of people who share exactly the same traditions, faith, customs, language, foods and music as those Israelites who inhabited Jerusalem thousands of years ago and they do claim this as their inheritance. They have at the very least as much, but in my opinion far greater claim over Jerusalem than the Muslims do when we base our facts on history and who was there first. You can't just erase that claim because it doesn't suit or because you don't like it.
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby Get Real! » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:17 am

My prediction of what’s to come…

God eventually comes down to Earth to claim his people and all the Israelis are out on the streets with their hands in the air waiting for deliverance, confident that their moment of glory has finally arrived when all of a sudden you hear God’s voice...

“Nah, not you pieces of criminal shit... I’ve come to deliver the Palestinians from the misery you impose on them... THOSE are my people!”

That I predict, will be the Israeli's demise…
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Re: The US recognises Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Postby kurupetos » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:27 am

NYC is the capital of Israel. :roll:
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