Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

Pyrpoliser:

That’s too naïve to even think about it.(The Turks moving the Green Line) Nobody is going to do someone else’s war. However everyone (including the Americans the Israelis the Egyptians the French -EVERYONE including Cyprus) will be damaged if Turkey just starts drilling in an effort to steal hydrocarbons.

Yes moving the Green Line would be rather improbable but all they really need to do is pour more Turkish Troops into the country, carry out some threatening exercises and the fear factor alone would mean that the GC's would have to take counter measures just in case they were serious.

So the other countries you list would respond to ’......do someone else’s war’! One off-shore incident from either side of the Island could have serious repercussions. Just words will not deter the Turks you would have to display to them you were serious and Cyprus on its own cannot do that. It has no air power for a start!

The only excuse I can find for someone throwing such a statement is the fact that you haven’t served in the army and hence you have no idea of how wars get started on the first place, then how they are carried on, and how the "winner" eventually establishes control. Furthermore I ‘ve noticed in an older post that you thought the Cypriot National Guard as it currently is- full of conscripts- should have insignificant power

.
I have served but many years ago (60 yrs?) but I was an apprentice and then joined the TA, a military career type person I was not! But history tells us how wars can be started, how they are conducted and that, since the end of WWII ......... there have been very few wars actually won by the ‘winners’!

A very close Cypriot friend we have known for years, has a son who is an officer in the CNG (regular – did his training in Greece for some years). He is a very nice guy but a warrior he is not. His mum still does his washing and ironing for him and cooks his meals in batches for him to survive the weeks duty. No conscript army can take on a regular army, the incentive to sacrifice your life for The State does not have the same appeal in a conscript.

The other paragraphs I generally agree with you. The thread is now a TC vs GC debate and something I have always avoided participating in ...... for obvious reasons. Although ......

All we have to watch for, is the British playing their usual dirty games behind our backs.

I think it would be fair to include the US and their other allies in that comment, don't you? The UK would not act alone ..... as is the norm, they will do what the US decides they can ..... and what the US decides is always in the interests of the US. (which means in the interests of Israel also) As I pointed out previously, they abandoned the UK (a NATO member which Cyprus is not) over The Faulkland’s War and worked actively against them, as they and our French ally, supplied weapons and intelligence to Argentina. Alliances and promises go out of the window when to implement them is not in the interests of the US.

[Robin Hood]

GIG:

A true concern. This likelihood makes me so sad. From what I've seen, the British public are too easily duped and led by their government.

..... and you think that ONLY applies to the UK???

[Paphitis]

The USA did not help Arhentina in the Falklands War. That is nonsense. The French however did.

USA stayed out of it. Australia also stayed out.

But what USA and Australia did do is bankroll Sinn Fein and hence were sponsors of the IRA, and terrorism in Britain throughout the 80s and 90s. That had nothing to do with israel either. It was the American and Australian Irish Catholic elites and Unions sending money over to Sinn Fein to help their Irish 'brothers'.

It was nothing at all personal against Britain or the British people.

Also, Israel is a Cyprus ally now. They hold joint military war games with the CNG. The Israel/Greece/Cyprus power Axis is in full swing in order to construct a Gas pipeline between Israel, Cyprus, Greece and onwards to the EU.

That is Israel's interest, as well as the RoC's and as well as Greece's. The Americans, along with the French have substantial commercial interests in the exploration and exploitation of the resources. That is their interests.

US, Israeli, Cypriot, Greek and EU interests are pretty much in line.

What isn't in line with those interests is Turkey and their ally Russia who is selling S400 missiles to Turkey and will allow them to deploy to Cyprus, something the Americans are very vocal about when the Turks bring new American arms to Cyprus which is why the Turks still have WW2 M48 Tanks on the island and no Abrams.

[Paphitis]

GIG:

A true concern. This likelihood makes me so sad. From what I've seen, the British public are too easily duped and led by their government.

..... and you think that ONLY applies to the UK???

Russia and Turkey are the number 1 concern now.

Not UK, Israel or USA, who are on our side and will defend the RoC's rights under UNCLOS! . The Israeli's even have a security arrangement with the RoC whereby Israeli planes and Heron Drones will be patrolling the Cypriot EEZ in order to provide security for Drilling Rigs and assets in the Cypriot EEZ.

It will be Russia and Turkey that will question the RoC's rights as we saw in your Blacklisted article where they insinuated that Russia can mediate.

There is no mediation required as UNCLOS is clear.

[Robin Hood]

GIG:

A true concern. This likelihood makes me so sad. From what I've seen, the British public are too easily duped and led by their government.

..... and you think that ONLY applies to the UK???

Russia and Turkey are the number 1 concern now.

Explain how Russia is a concern?

Not UK, Israel or USA, who are on our side and will defend the RoC's rights under UNCLOS! . The Israeli's even have a security arrangement with the RoC whereby Israeli planes and Heron Drones will be patrolling the Cypriot EEZ in order to provide security for Drilling Rigs and assets in the Cypriot EEZ.

It will be Russia and Turkey that will question the RoC's rights as we saw in your Blacklisted article where they insinuated that Russia can mediate.

Blacklistednews do not write articles, they just publish them ..... it was an article by Al Monitor, who seem to be clued up on events in the ME.

There is no mediation required as UNCLOS is clear.

You seem to be rather selective when it comes to the application of International Law, including the Maritime! Why is it not applied in Gaza's maritime zone?

[Pyrpolizer]

It has no air power for a start

What’s the use of air power on the first place? It’s just a clean up weapon preparing the way ahead of the artillery and the tanks which in turn clear the way for the infantry.
With todays missiles Turkey could lose as many as 50 planes in just one day if they try using the standard military procedure of sending planes to do a deep clean up.
As you may have noticed in recent wars using solely air power to do a war is a very slow process and assumes little or no resistence from ground.

A very close Cypriot friend we have known for years, has a son who is an officer in the CNG (regular – did his training in Greece for some years). He is a very nice guy but a warrior he is not. His mum still does his washing and ironing for him and cooks his meals in batches for him to survive the weeks duty. No conscript army can take on a regular army, the incentive to sacrifice your life for The State does not have the same appeal in a conscript.

And you think any British or American or Turkish officer is any different? Do you think there are heros today who would give their lives for the nation?
The only ones who are actually warriors in any army are the commandos. The rest are more or less as you described them. However when anyone gets into a real war he has no other option than do his duty or else he will lose his life. This is what transforms any "cornflakes boy" into a real fighting man. So yes if he ‘s in a tank and all tanks are ordered to move forward he has no other option than load it with bombs and fire like crazy or else the odds are he won’t survive.
This is what every GC will do in case Turkey attacks us. We have no other option, nowhere to go, we have to fight for our family our homes and ourselves.

I think it would be fair to include the US and their other allies in that comment, don't you? The UK would not act alone .....

Unfortunately I can’t agree with you. The Americans kind of set the British as their ambassadors for matters related to Cyprus. At least this is what we witnessed in the past, the British having ground presence in Cyprus and knowing a lot of things, acting as the advisors to the Americans who follow blindfolded. Perhaps you should know that the British military fascilities don’t include the 2 bases alone but a number of other places around Cyprus. In 1974 the British were using those fascilities to guide the Turkish planes against us and they were caught multiple times on the radio doing so.
Militarily and politically the British have always been hostile (to the Greek Cypriots) that’s a fact. It’s hard to throw such accusation on the face of any British person (including you of course) who in general are very nice and polite people who mean no harm. But unfortunately it’s true.

[Paphitis]

GIG:

A true concern. This likelihood makes me so sad. From what I've seen, the British public are too easily duped and led by their government.

..... and you think that ONLY applies to the UK???

Russia and Turkey are the number 1 concern now.

Explain how Russia is a concern?

Not UK, Israel or USA, who are on our side and will defend the RoC's rights under UNCLOS! . The Israeli's even have a security arrangement with the RoC whereby Israeli planes and Heron Drones will be patrolling the Cypriot EEZ in order to provide security for Drilling Rigs and assets in the Cypriot EEZ.

It will be Russia and Turkey that will question the RoC's rights as we saw in your Blacklisted article where they insinuated that Russia can mediate.

Blacklistednews do not write articles, they just publish them ..... it was an article by Al Monitor, who seem to be clued up on events in the ME.

There is no mediation required as UNCLOS is clear.

You seem to be rather selective when it comes to the application of International Law, including the Maritime! Why is it not applied in Gaza's maritime zone?

Oh excuse me. I need to check and see if Gaza is in my UN book of Nations.

Flicking through right now, but nope, no Gaza!

Russia just questioned the RoC's UNCLOS rights to its EEZ. The USA and UK DO NOT question at all. They acknowledge!

[Robin Hood]

GIG:

A true concern. This likelihood makes me so sad. From what I've seen, the British public are too easily duped and led by their government.

..... and you think that ONLY applies to the UK???

Russia and Turkey are the number 1 concern now.

Explain how Russia is a concern?

Not UK, Israel or USA, who are on our side and will defend the RoC's rights under UNCLOS! . The Israeli's even have a security arrangement with the RoC whereby Israeli planes and Heron Drones will be patrolling the Cypriot EEZ in order to provide security for Drilling Rigs and assets in the Cypriot EEZ.

It will be Russia and Turkey that will question the RoC's rights as we saw in your Blacklisted article where they insinuated that Russia can mediate.

Blacklistednews do not write articles, they just publish them ..... it was an article by Al Monitor, who seem to be clued up on events in the ME.

There is no mediation required as UNCLOS is clear.

You seem to be rather selective when it comes to the application of International Law, including the Maritime! Why is it not applied in Gaza's maritime zone?

Oh excuse me. I need to check and see if Gaza is in my UN book of Nations.

Flicking through right now, but nope, no Gaza!

Russia just questioned the RoC's UNCLOS rights to its EEZ. The USA and UK DO NOT question at all. They acknowledge!

Gaza is a 'District' of Palestine, although more correctly regarded as an Israeli Concentration Camp for Palestinians! Palestine IS recognised by the UN ........ maybe your UN reference book needs updating?

Russia has questioned RoC rights to its EEZ ? ...... news to me, any credible links that explains why?

Just checked .... and there is nothing said about it in either the MSM or the independent sites! I think this is just your imagination running wild again? There are stories from 2011 and 2014 where TRNC has questioned the RoC's entitlement to their EEZ ........ I assume you know that Russia and the TRNC are not the same entities?

[Paphitis]

Militarily and politically the British have always been hostile (to the Greek Cypriots) that’s a fact. It’s hard to throw such accusation on the face of any British person (including you of course) who in general are very nice and polite people who mean no harm. But unfortunately it’s true.

I need to take issue with the above Pyro because it is VERY dangerous thinking.

Firstly, I am going to say that the British do not hate us at all, either militarily or politically. If that were the case, there would be not as many Cypriots in the UK or Australia even.

There is no reason for them to hate us. They can hold a grudge for a little while, unlike us who have long memories and can hold a grudge for a longer while than them. But overall, they just take it as it comes with most people.

On the contrary, Cypriots are probably a very well liked people to them. Much better liked than many others.

Cyprus and Britain had some conflict but that was a long time ago. And by no means was the Cyprus conflict to be compared to other conflicts they have had around the world such as ww2 with Germany, or Argentina over Falklands and so on. They are friends with both Germany and Argentina. As far as barbarism is concerned, the Japanese were especially cruel to their military during WW2. Japan is now one of their best friends. Australia had a brutal war against Vietnam and the VC. Australia and USA are now good friends with the Communist Regime in Vietnam, militarily and politically.

If for some reason The UK hate us or do not like us, even just slightly, then that is our fault. To me that say's we are not as forthcoming to all their approaches for good relations, or they do not trust us for some reason. That is not good at all. The Cyprus Government will need to work very hard to destroy these perceptions as soon as possible.

Basically what I am saying to you is that they couldn't care about what happened 3 generations ago. That to them is history like everything else.

In addition, in 1974, the UK and USA were at odds with each other. The UK new that Cyprus was about to be invaded and its then Foreign Affairs Minister protested to Kissinger all the way through, and even at one point threatened Kissinger with upholding its Treaty Obligation to protect the territorial integrity of the Republic. It didn't do so, but a lot of these things are on the public record now.

The Brits were so unsure of the situation, and not a co-conspirator of the USA and Turkey, that they deployed troops to shore up SBA defences as there was in their mind at-least no guarantee that the Turkish Military will stop at the SBAs. They even deployed Nepalese Gurkha and Australian Troops (SAS) to Dhekelia. All this on the public record. Troops which would have opened fire on the Turks if they did not stop at Pyla.

Basically, I think you are wrong to say they are working against us. I don't believe they hate us at all. Not even politically. It's not something I have witnessed in a systematic way. They have had their flaws and made their stupid mistakes but I can't imagine them to hold grudges from 1955. It just isn't really them. They are always forward thinking not backward thinking. Always looking to befriend you not hate you.

I mean Cyprus is pretty insignificant as well. You would think that if they hate us, they would surely still hate the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese, or Argentinians and perhaps so many others like the Russians as well. But that isn't the case. They don't hate any of those so why would they hate Cyprus? Doesn't make sense to me sorry.

[Schnauzer]

Militarily and politically the British have always been hostile (to the Greek Cypriots) that’s a fact. It’s hard to throw such accusation on the face of any British person (including you of course) who in general are very nice and polite people who mean no harm. But unfortunately it’s true.

I need to take issue with the above Pyro because it is VERY dangerous thinking.

Firstly, I am going to say that the British do not hate us at all, either militarily or politically. If that were the case, there would be not as many Cypriots in the UK or Australia even.

There is no reason for them to hate us. They can hold a grudge for a little while, unlike us who have long memories and can hold a grudge for a longer while than them. But overall, they just take it as it comes with most people.

On the contrary, Cypriots are probably a very well liked people to them. Much better liked than many others.

Cyprus and Britain had some conflict but that was a long time ago. And by no means was the Cyprus conflict to be compared to other conflicts they have had around the world such as ww2 with Germany, or Argentina over Falklands and so on. They are friends with both Germany and Argentina. As far as barbarism is concerned, the Japanese were especially cruel to their military during WW2. Japan is now one of their best friends. Australia had a brutal war against Vietnam and the VC. Australia and USA are now good friends with the Communist Regime in Vietnam, militarily and politically.

If for some reason The UK hate us or do not like us, even just slightly, then that is our fault. To me that say's we are not as forthcoming to all their approaches for good relations, or they do not trust us for some reason. That is not good at all. The Cyprus Government will need to work very hard to destroy these perceptions as soon as possible.

Basically what I am saying to you is that they couldn't care about what happened 3 generations ago. That to them is history like everything else.

In addition, in 1974, the UK and USA were at odds with each other. The UK new that Cyprus was about to be invaded and its then Foreign Affairs Minister protested to Kissinger all the way through, and even at one point threatened Kissinger with upholding its Treaty Obligation to protect the territorial integrity of the Republic. It didn't do so, but a lot of these things are on the public record now.

The Brits were so unsure of the situation, and not a co-conspirator of the USA and Turkey, that they deployed troops to shore up SBA defences as there was in their mind at-least no guarantee that the Turkish Military will stop at the SBAs. They even deployed Nepalese Gurkha and Australian Troops (SAS) to Dhekelia. All this on the public record. Troops which would have opened fire on the Turks if they did not stop at Pyla.

Basically, I think you are wrong to say they are working against us. I don't believe they hate us at all. Not even politically. It's not something I have witnessed in a systematic way. They have had their flaws and made their stupid mistakes but I can't imagine them to hold grudges from 1955. It just isn't really them. They are always forward thinking not backward thinking. Always looking to befriend you not hate you.

I mean Cyprus is pretty insignificant as well. You would think that if they hate us, they would surely still hate the Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese, or Argentinians and perhaps so many others like the Russians as well. But that isn't the case. They don't hate any of those so why would they hate Cyprus? Doesn't make sense to me sorry.

Nice sentiments Paphitis BUT, how does one explain the scenario which found a British Officer actively conducting a demographic and ethnic survey of Cyprus (PRIOR to the Turkish invasion) later explained as a holiday jaunt by the said officer who was merely engaged on a trip to enhance his artistic abilities ?.

How convenient that the lines of division were clearly defined and the 'Green Line' so vividly obvious AFTER the said invasion.

Make no mistake mate, the machinations of the 'Brits' are both legion and legendary, the pages of history are littered with examples of how lovingly and thoughtfully they have infiltrated and occupied (one way or another) the populace of many nations across the entire world, perhaps the geopolitical position of Cyprus might be a clue as to why the 'Brits', 'Yanks', 'Turks', and innocent 'Israeli's' ( ) suddenly became so interested in it's unfortunate location...., after all, many nations in the vicinity of Israel have recently learned to their cost (destruction and dismay) the misfortune of being in such close proximity to such a relatively newly formed yet probably well planned 'Nuclear Power' smack in the middle of the most sensitive area on the face of the earth thanks to it's existence.

Happy new year folks, lets ALL hope that the 'BANG' might end up in the right place........almost on the doorstep of Cyprus.