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The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Robin Hood » Sat May 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Londonrake:

Thanks Pyro but nay


I agree!
You seemed to believe yesterday that the whole interview thing was Fake News. I couldn’t see why. Papers like the NYT interview senior figures in science/politics, etc routinely. Why not the head of the OPCW?


Why not indeed?

My point being, how often the most absurd items from so-called “independent” and State run mouthpieces are immediately accepted, whereas even relatively tame articles from the MSM are contemptuously discarded, out-of-hand. Unless it tends to support the poster’s view - which is entirely different of course - and not at all hypocritical. In that I am not pointing a finger at yourself.


Did I say I didn’t accept it? :roll: I questioned the credibility of it based simply on a bit of critical thinking and went to some lengths to explain why. Was I wrong to question? Was my ‘common sense’ based opinion wrong? It just didn’t seem right .... and I questioned it. You didn’t read my comments so you couldn’t have a response to them. Virtually everything you read on this incident is questionable and does not add up. The denser the wall of silence the more reason to question.

But I do that with ANYTHING I read or watch. I simply question, every time; Just how credible is this I am watching/reading? In general with MSM, the basic story is OK it is all the opinion passed off as fact that is often missed by readers and is what is used to deliberately distort the perception of readers that don’t question. As Paphitis demonstrates .... he believes you are always right and I am always wrong ..... so he follows your lead without question! :roll:

The man had obviously exceeded his brief in the interview and was quickly and publicly corrected for it. Something which I had no compunction in posting.


But he was wrong! To me it just did not seem credible from just reading the headline. Because you have preconceived ideas, you just accepted it as another statement to ‘score’ anti-Russian points without questioning its credibility. Am I wrong? :|
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Robin Hood » Sat May 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Nothing to do with Skripal but .........

He says what I was trying to explain about how the press attempts to direct the source and ‘censor’ news for a political agenda rather than journalists questioning those with contrary views, which is what an investigative journalist used to do ........ as the title says ‘No more’!

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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat May 05, 2018 3:31 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:If i may defend LR, he said right from the start that he didn't beleive the article was creditable (or something along those lines).


Thanks Pyro but nay :D :wink:

You seemed to believe yesterday that the whole interview thing was Fake News. I couldn’t see why. Papers like the NYT interview senior figures in science/politics, etc routinely. Why not the head of the OPCW?

(2) My point being, how often the most absurd items from so-called "independent" and State run mouthpieces are immediately accepted, whereas even relatively tame articles from the MSM are contemptuously discarded, out-of-hand. Unless it tends to support the poster’s view - which is entirely different of course - and not at all hypocritical. :roll: In that I am not pointing a finger particularly at yourself.

The man had obviously exceeded his brief in the interview and was quickly and publicly corrected for it. Something which I had no compunction in posting.




I thought you were talking for both sides that "fall for things in this area" at this post
cyprus46182-460.html#p867951
but after careful reading you were in fact referring to only one side
Your "Nay" accepted

Let's get things straight LR.
I think we all agree the the British media was quoting from NYT as in fact Guardian admitted.
Hence it's quite logical for anyone who would like to learn the precise content of that "interview" to look at the original in NYT.
And that's what I did. Alas the NYT did not include the original interview at all. It only included extracts from an alleged interview that the head of the OPCW presumably gave in some other unknown media (which one? -The Martians metropolis News??) :wink:
I have no doubt quoting your own words that "papers like the NYT interview senior figures in science/politics, etc routinely." but when they do so they don't just publish parts of it at their own discretion. They publish the WHOLE thing. So where's the whole thing in this case??
This partially answers your question of " Why not the head of the OPCW? ". a) Because the interview itself is missing b)Because they never claimed they themselves interviewed the man on the first place!! and c) for other reasons including the "highly unlikely" possibility :wink: of a person at his capacity giving interviews for such a sensitive matter expressing personal nonsense (you do agree the contents were nonsense don't you?"

Now concerning your point marked with (2) above.
I often read the alternative media and I can assure you they are not immediately accepted as you think.
Do you remember the time I posted the article saying they shot down 71 out of the 103 Tomahawks?
I did post it for discussion purposes only. I never beleived it to be the absolute truth. After the discussion I remember saying I beleive that both sides are lying and that the truth must be is somewhere in between.

The are many articles in Saker and Moon of Alabama that often RH links to. If you take the time to read them then you will find out in most cases they are just analytical thinking of already known events. If you take for example the matter of the procedure followed by OPCW in preparing it's report regarding the Skripals case, there's no way to miss the fact that it was not the standard one that this impartial body follows. (as for example was the procedure they followed in Syria)
There's no way to refute Russia's argument that the report the OPCW issued missed the important elements of impartiality because a) the OPCW never visited the scene of the crime b) never collected it's own samples, c)never took blood samples from the patients by itself.

You won't find these arguments in MSM. Therefore if you want to form a more informed view you have no other option other that seek information from independent media as well. You may not like some of the things you will read, but if you develop your own ability of filtering the fake news from the real ones, then you (in plural) will benefit.
Last edited by Pyrpolizer on Sat May 05, 2018 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 05, 2018 3:34 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Londonrake wrote:"Chemical weapons watchdog amends claim over Salisbury novichok

OPCW corrects own director who had said 50-100g of nerve agent was used in spy poisoning"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... y-novichok

.


Well it looks the newspapers are very good in manufacturing their own fake news... :lol:
Last time the Guardian was supposedly quoting from New York Times...
Point is nowhere does the OPCW correct it's own director.
It just answers questions from the media.
Quoting verbatim
In response to questions from the media

For me there has never been an interview on the first place....


This is what the media are referring to:

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw- ... d-kingdom/

UPDATE BY THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL TO THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
AT ITS FIFTY-SEVENTH MEETING on 4th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/ ... g01_e_.pdf

NOTE BY THE TECHNICAL SECRETARIAT
SUMMARY OF THE REPORT ON ACTIVITIES CARRIED OUT
IN SUPPORT OF A REQUEST FOR TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE BY
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
(TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE VISIT TAV/02/18) on 12th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/S_s ... 018_e_.pdf

Media Alert: OPCW's Director-General's Update to the 59th Executive Council Meeting on Salisbury Incident

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media ... -incident/
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sat May 05, 2018 4:02 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Londonrake wrote:"Chemical weapons watchdog amends claim over Salisbury novichok

OPCW corrects own director who had said 50-100g of nerve agent was used in spy poisoning"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... y-novichok

.


Well it looks the newspapers are very good in manufacturing their own fake news... :lol:
Last time the Guardian was supposedly quoting from New York Times...
Point is nowhere does the OPCW correct it's own director.
It just answers questions from the media.
Quoting verbatim
In response to questions from the media

For me there has never been an interview on the first place....


This is what the media are referring to:

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw- ... d-kingdom/

UPDATE BY THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL TO THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
AT ITS FIFTY-SEVENTH MEETING on 4th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/ ... g01_e_.pdf

NOTE BY THE TECHNICAL SECRETARIAT
SUMMARY OF THE REPORT ON ACTIVITIES CARRIED OUT
IN SUPPORT OF A REQUEST FOR TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE BY
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
(TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE VISIT TAV/02/18) on 12th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/S_s ... 018_e_.pdf

Media Alert: OPCW's Director-General's Update to the 59th Executive Council Meeting on Salisbury Incident

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media ... -incident/


No this is not "what response to questions from the media" was all about. :o
The link was posted by LR earlier today. Keep up todate Paphitis, will you? :wink:
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Robin Hood » Sat May 05, 2018 4:56 pm

Pyrpolizer: Post @ 4:31
I have no doubt quoting your own words that "papers like the NYT interview senior figures in science/politics, etc routinely." but when they do so they don't just publish parts of it at their own discretion. They publish the WHOLE thing. So where's the whole thing in this case??


The MSM can’t because unlike the independent sites, they have limitations They simply do not have the column inches to do that and they have to comply with editorial policy. The same limits do not apply to the independents ..... I have read articles that are 20 pages of info and have dozens of links to sources and ‘links’ are not something you get with MSM. If you really want to know as many of the details available as possible you HAVE to go to the independents ....... then use common sense! :roll:

I often read the alternative media and I can assure you they are not immediately accepted as you think.


But he does think that because HE accepts what he reads and will disregard anything that does not fit the scenario he supports. When the MSM précis down a story to fit the space available, they cut out the bits that counter the theme they want to project .... that’s just common sense. :roll: Again the independent sites don’t have the problem! They do not have any editorial control over the contents of an article, they being very often one-man-bands run on $ contributions from readers.
.....I believe that both sides are lying and that the truth must be is somewhere in between.


Usually a good starting point!

The are many articles in Saker and Moon of Alabama that often RH links to. If you take the time to read them then you will find out in most cases they are just analytical thinking of already known events.


No argument with that and a lot of it is certainly, but they have access to sources we don’t or at least don’t have either the time or the in depth interest to go to the lengths they do. The same applies to the Guests they have posting their views on the sight but, all-in-all though, both seem to be fairly good when they ‘predict’ and they always explain why they think they way they do. Certainly neither could be regarded as extremists, just well read on the subjects. They certainly don’t boast about Russia’s superiority in all things, in fact they are often critical of Russia and Putin.

You won't find these arguments in MSM. Therefore if you want to form a more informed view you have no other option than to seek information from independent media as well. You may not like some of the things you will read, but if you develop your own ability of filtering the fake news from the real ones, then you (in plural) will benefit.


I understand what you are saying but it is all falling on deaf ears. :(

I have been saying this to LR for over 8 years and he has not budged one inch from his entrenched faith in his selected MSM and Western Propaganda when it comes to Russia/Putin/Crimea/Georgia/Syria/Assad/MH1/Iran etc.etc. because he has nothing to make a comparison with. He regards all the independents as run by left wing extremist hoodies, Putin/Assad apologists, anti-Semitic’s and conspiracy theorists.

Hard to counter that .... it takes too long and meets with a TLDR response. :roll:
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Paphitis » Sat May 05, 2018 5:03 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Londonrake wrote:"Chemical weapons watchdog amends claim over Salisbury novichok

OPCW corrects own director who had said 50-100g of nerve agent was used in spy poisoning"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... y-novichok

.


Well it looks the newspapers are very good in manufacturing their own fake news... :lol:
Last time the Guardian was supposedly quoting from New York Times...
Point is nowhere does the OPCW correct it's own director.
It just answers questions from the media.
Quoting verbatim
In response to questions from the media

For me there has never been an interview on the first place....


This is what the media are referring to:

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw- ... d-kingdom/

UPDATE BY THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL TO THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
AT ITS FIFTY-SEVENTH MEETING on 4th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/ ... g01_e_.pdf

NOTE BY THE TECHNICAL SECRETARIAT
SUMMARY OF THE REPORT ON ACTIVITIES CARRIED OUT
IN SUPPORT OF A REQUEST FOR TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE BY
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
(TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE VISIT TAV/02/18) on 12th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/S_s ... 018_e_.pdf

Media Alert: OPCW's Director-General's Update to the 59th Executive Council Meeting on Salisbury Incident

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media ... -incident/


No this is not "what response to questions from the media" was all about. :o
The link was posted by LR earlier today. Keep up todate Paphitis, will you? :wink:


The media didn't mention an interview.

Only the NYT mentioned, "in an interview" which could mean anything.

It could actually mean a media briefing, media release, or an actual interview which the NYT never claimed.

Only the Guardian claimed it from the NYT article, which was wrong.

But quite frankly, I think you are way off to suggest any fake news and then claim other fringe sites as being gospel.

The Guardian is Britain's version of Haravgi! Their bias goes towards the hard left. But I wouldn't call them Fake. They are actually quite a reasonable source for the most part even though I don't agree with their political agenda which I think is total bullshit!

That is the thing with the UK. They have a completely pluralist and free media which I can only support and admire.

Bottom line is this. The OPCW has confirmed beyond any doubt that the substance detected on 3 poisoned individuals in the UK (including a police officer) was military grade Novichok.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sat May 05, 2018 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Robin Hood » Sat May 05, 2018 5:12 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Londonrake wrote:"Chemical weapons watchdog amends claim over Salisbury novichok

OPCW corrects own director who had said 50-100g of nerve agent was used in spy poisoning"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... y-novichok

.


Well it looks the newspapers are very good in manufacturing their own fake news... :lol:
Last time the Guardian was supposedly quoting from New York Times...
Point is nowhere does the OPCW correct it's own director.
It just answers questions from the media.
Quoting verbatim
In response to questions from the media

For me there has never been an interview on the first place....


This is what the media are referring to:

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw- ... d-kingdom/

UPDATE BY THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL TO THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
AT ITS FIFTY-SEVENTH MEETING on 4th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/EC/ ... g01_e_.pdf

NOTE BY THE TECHNICAL SECRETARIAT
SUMMARY OF THE REPORT ON ACTIVITIES CARRIED OUT
IN SUPPORT OF A REQUEST FOR TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE BY
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
(TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE VISIT TAV/02/18) on 12th of April

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/S_s ... 018_e_.pdf

Media Alert: OPCW's Director-General's Update to the 59th Executive Council Meeting on Salisbury Incident

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media ... -incident/


No this is not "what response to questions from the media" was all about. :o
The link was posted by LR earlier today. Keep up todate Paphitis, will you? :wink:


The media didn't mention an interview.

Only the NYT mentioned, "in an interview" which could mean anything.

It could actually mean a media briefing, media release, or an actual interview which the NYT never claimed.

Only the Guardian claimed it from the NYT article, which was wrong.

But quite frankly, I think you are way off to suggest any fake news and then claim other fringe sights as being gospel.

The Guardian is Britain's version of Haravgi! Their bias goes towards the hard left. But I wouldn't call them Fake. They are actually quite a reasonable source for the most part even though I don't agree with their political agenda which I think is total bullshit!

That is the thing with the UK. They have a completely pluralist and free media.

Bottom line is this. The OPCW has confirmed beyond any doubt that the substance detected on 3 poisoned individuals in the UK (including a police officer) was military grade Novichok.


ET ..... phone home! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Londonrake » Sat May 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Actually, "Deaf ears" is putting his makeup on to go out. 8)

RH

You started the TLDR stuff at: cyprus36916-180.html#p867749

With - "Couldn't be bothered to read all that!". As a way of avoiding some damning, unanswerable, clear statements about Israel by senior Iranian government and military officials. One of your usual tricks where you avoid the inconceivable idea of having to admit to being wrong (I'm sure that's sinking in by now). Much like the one where you've ignored repeated requests to back up your claims about Israel threatening to nuke Iran. :wink: Which, everybody - including yourself - knows is total rubbish. :wink:

Although, that post was probably half the length of the tome you produced and expected everyone to read yesterday. Which must qualify as a new record. Was that hypocritical? :?
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Re: The Skripal poisoning affair ..... was it Russia/Putin?

Postby Robin Hood » Sat May 05, 2018 7:40 pm

Londonrake wrote:Actually, "Deaf ears" is putting his makeup on to go out. 8)

RH

You started the TLDR stuff at: cyprus36916-180.html#p867749

With - "Couldn't be bothered to read all that!". As a way of avoiding some damning, unanswerable, clear statements about Israel by senior Iranian government and military officials. One of your usual tricks where you avoid the inconceivable idea of having to admit to being wrong (I'm sure that's sinking in by now). Much like the one where you've ignored repeated requests to back up your claims about Israel threatening to nuke Iran. :wink: Which, everybody - including yourself - knows is total rubbish. :wink:

Although, that post was probably half the length of the tome you produced and expected everyone to read yesterday. Which must qualify as a new record. Was that hypocritical? :?


Think back a few years. On one thread, not on this forum, about 'something to do with Israel, I think' you posted a string of these links as some sort of demonstration as to how all these MSM links supported your view. I started reading them and after 3-4 I realised they were all virtually the same, not just the story but the wording! :roll:

Then I checked and they were all syndicated from Reuters!!!! All these 'thinking, honest' MSM posts were parroting what Reuters were saying ..... not one was an original piece. So, yes, when faced with a string of links to MSM sites I read maybe 1 or 2 ..... and skip the rest. First check ..... what is the authors name . Mostly, they don't have an author ..... unless 'Reuters' has become a modern name and I am out of the loop.

So it has nothing to do with your posts, I usually read them except when they are just your usual tirade against me. But they are rather repetitive in their intent to put me and my views down. So I tend to cut through the sarcasm to see what you are trying to convey, which mostly has little to do with the thread. So I skim ..... and although I could reply, I don't because you are someone it is very difficult to have any form of discussion with. :roll:
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