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Design vs Randomness

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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Sotos » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:50 am

miltiades wrote:Accountancy is a boring subject but at least it enhances one's logical thinking , it reinforces reality and does not accept falsified figures or , in your case, false creators. A balance sheet reflects the true facts about a company and does not include imaginary assets or fucking....miracles. Get it thick head ?


But there is also "creative accountancy" and the books can be cooked to make things miraculously appear and disappear in order to present a story which is very different from reality. ;)
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby miltiades » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:50 pm

Sotos, creative accountancy is somwhat different from cooking the books? The latter being illegal where as creative accounting is not.
My speciality eas the ....latter !!
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Kikapu » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:11 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:
miltiades wrote:There is NO GOD for ....Godsake!!
Wake up !!


its you that needs to wake up,

You need an awakening!

"He who controls his mind controls the world" - Buddha


But here you might be on to something I can accept. Religions could be necessary for many to control their mind. If that is the case, then why deny people, especially since they need religion to maintain their mental well being.


I do not have any figures to back up my statement, but I believe it to be true that overwhelming majority of humans on the planet earth do believe in God and uses religion to guide their lives.

Can so many people who have built everything we have today on this planet and out of it, great and small, with the never ending evolving of the mind's knowledge, can be so wrong?

Could it be that the human brain has always been the same size over thousands of years, but it has only been able to process imaginations of the mind in every aspects of creations, be it be in engineering, mechanics or agriculture, in an adequate way to satisfy the needs of humans for those times and at different stages of time. It is either all a grand design by a creator, luck or evolution in what we have today in our time on this earth, because, a thousand years from now, life on earth will look thousands time more different than what we know today, and they too will be pondering with these same questions as we are doing today.

Please don't ask me what my point is with this post, because God knows, I don't know! :wink: :D
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Get Real! » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:35 pm

Kikapu wrote:I do not have any figures to back up my statement, but I believe it to be true that overwhelming majority of humans on the planet earth do believe in God and uses religion to guide their lives.

Can so many people who have built everything we have today on this planet and out of it, great and small, with the never ending evolving of the mind's knowledge, can be so wrong?

Unlike animals, Man’s tendency to seek God seems part of our nature and is most likely due to our conscience which animals don’t seem to have.

Man constantly questions the reason for his existence and is aware and fearful of his mortality while animals couldn’t care less and just go about their relatively simple pre-programmed lives (eating, drinking and mating).

This is another point that debunks the theory of evolution because not only did apes have to physically convert into humans but they also had to somehow find a conscience! :)
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Kikapu » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:59 pm

But the Human mind has evolved in the form of "evolution of intelligence", no?

And yes, Human's are afraid of their own mortality and want assurances from religion and God for the purpose of afterlife.

In the end, if there is an afterlife, then we will all end up in the same place whether one believes in God or not, no?

It is very hard to believe that our beautiful planet of earth is just an accident in the Universe when compared to other planets in our solar system without the creator to have made it all possible. But then again, the planet earth has gone through many changes in it's 6 Billion year history and will go through many more changes in the next 6 Billion years. Today's species on this earth are not guaranteed to be around for the next 6 Billion year ride. Not even close!
Last edited by Kikapu on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Sotos » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:51 pm

Kikapu wrote:Can so many people who have built everything we have today on this planet and out of it, great and small, with the never ending evolving of the mind's knowledge, can be so wrong?


First of all when it comes to scientists the numbers of theists are far lower than those of the general population. Secondly "be wrong" about what? Every religion has different (often contradictory) beliefs, so at best all religions are wrong except from 1. That means that even in a best case scenario for religious people only a minority of them could be "right". If people of a specific belief had everything going great to them while nobody else did, then maybe you could argue that there is a correlation between the religious beliefs of those people and their achievements. But this isn't the case.
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Kikapu » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:11 pm

Sotos wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Can so many people who have built everything we have today on this planet and out of it, great and small, with the never ending evolving of the mind's knowledge, can be so wrong?


First of all when it comes to scientists the numbers of theists are far lower than those of the general population. Secondly "be wrong" about what? Every religion has different (often contradictory) beliefs, so at best all religions are wrong except from 1. That means that even in a best case scenario for religious people only a minority of them could be "right". If people of a specific belief had everything going great to them while nobody else did, then maybe you could argue that there is a correlation between the religious beliefs of those people and their achievements. But this isn't the case.

Can all these people who are religious, regardless of their religious beliefs and no matter how contradictory they may be to each other, almost all believe in the existence of God in one form or other which is responsible to their existence and pray for his guidance, so the question is, can all these people be wrong that there is God, Soto’s?
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Sotos » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:12 pm

Get Real! wrote:This is another point that debunks the theory of evolution because not only did apes have to physically convert into humans but they also had to somehow find a conscience! :)


The theory of evolution is by now an undisputed fact. Disputing this in 2018 is the same as disputing the fact that the earth is merely a planet orbiting one out of a vast number of stars, and instead maintaining the religious belief that the earth is the center of the universe.

The argument that animals have no conscience is also highly disputed to say the least. Humans are merely the most intelligent animals on this planet. And the difference between humans and some kinds of apes is not that huge actually. Just a defect in a few of our genes and a human can be born severely retarded, with less intelligence than say a Chimp.
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Sotos » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:29 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Sotos wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Can so many people who have built everything we have today on this planet and out of it, great and small, with the never ending evolving of the mind's knowledge, can be so wrong?


First of all when it comes to scientists the numbers of theists are far lower than those of the general population. Secondly "be wrong" about what? Every religion has different (often contradictory) beliefs, so at best all religions are wrong except from 1. That means that even in a best case scenario for religious people only a minority of them could be "right". If people of a specific belief had everything going great to them while nobody else did, then maybe you could argue that there is a correlation between the religious beliefs of those people and their achievements. But this isn't the case.

Can all these people who are religious, regardless of their religious beliefs and no matter how contradictory they may be to each other, almost all believe in the existence of God in one form or other which is responsible to their existence and pray for his guidance, so the question is, can all these people be wrong that there is God, Soto’s?


Not even prayer and "asking for guidance" is something universal among religions. But to answer a general question: Can lots of people be wrong? Of course they can. 2000 years ago nearly everybody believed that the sun and moon were orbiting the earth. The argument "most people believe X so X must be right", is simply not a good argument.
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Re: Design vs Randomness

Postby Kikapu » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:32 pm

I am not saying there is a God or there isn’t one. I just don’t know and nor do I think about it, but accept all those who does and those who does not as we will never know one way or the other, except perhaps only if there is an afterlife and if and when we get there, which is another topic altogether.
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