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Political equality

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Re: Political equality

Postby Kikapu » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:02 am

Pyro,

What Anastasiades may wants and what the GCs accepts in a referendum, are two different things. Until the fat lady sings, we don‘t know the final outcome for anyone.
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Re: Political equality

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:23 pm

Kikapu wrote:Pyro,

What Anastasiades may wants and what the GCs accepts in a referendum, are two different things. Until the fat lady sings, we don‘t know the final outcome for anyone.


Question is would the GCs have a choice??
A second OXI would mean partition, and a NAI would mean accepting the results of the invasion.
End result same shit....
Looking at the bright side, we may survive this Russian roulette while most people will have a few happy days celebrating the "reunification" of the island drinking zivania in unison. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Political equality

Postby Kikapu » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:39 pm

I don‘t see Anastasiades giving away the store, that he will always refuse to give everything what Turkey and the TCs want, which means that if it were to go to a referendum, that the north will say OXI themselves. Personally, Anastasiades and any other RoC leaders has/have/are playing for time and they have been very successful thus far.
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Re: Political equality

Postby Lordo » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:58 pm

Kikapu wrote:I don‘t see Anastasiades giving away the store, that he will always refuse to give everything what Turkey and the TCs want, which means that if it were to go to a referendum, that the north will say OXI themselves. Personally, Anastasiades and any other RoC leaders has/have/are playing for time and they have been very successful thus far.

really have they?
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Re: Political equality

Postby Sotos » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 am

Here is the first result that Google gives on the term of Political Equality:

Of the various ways in which citizens in the United States can be unequal, political inequality is- one of the most significant and troubling. By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech. Equal consideration of the preferences and needs of all citizens is fostered by equal political activity among citizens; not only equal voting turnout across significant categories of citizens but equality in other forms of activity.


Note that USA is also a federation, but Political Equality is about the equality of citizens not of ethnic groups or even states. The term Political Equality in the negotiations for the Cyprus Problem is very vague, but it is explicitly stated that it does NOT mean numerical equality, and that TCs can have veto power only for the change of constitution and a few other agreed things, but not on everything. The Turks now want "one positive vote" on everything, which is essentially another way to get veto on everything.

To give you an example, if you give ELAM or the Greens "one positive vote" you make them more powerful than AKEL. The whole point of having more MPs is that a greater numbers gives you greater power. Otherwise what is the point of having more MPs? To warm up the chairs? So the Turks are trying to circumvent the agreement that Political Equality does NOT mean numerical equality, and essentially get 50% power even thought they are the 18%.

To some idiots (even on our side) they hear "Political Equality" and they think "hey, equality, that's a good thing!". What those idiots don't understand is that "Political Equality" of groups of different sizes is in fact political inequality. It is the same thing as when we say that the top 1% of people have equal wealth to the bottom 50%. If you are an idiot you might think "hey, both classes have an equal amount of wealth, great!" but if you are not an idiot you realize that each individual within that 1% has a lot more wealth than each individual in that 50%, and that this equality between the 1% and the 50% in fact demonstrates a gross inequality.

The argument of the Turks that such kind of "Political Equality" is something that exists in all Federations and that without it the result is a unitary state, is pure nonsense. In the USA for example the States are equal only in the Senate and of course all citizens are free to be residents with full political rights of any state they want, there is no such thing as the "Whites State" and the "Blacks State".
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Re: Political equality

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:17 pm

...thanks Sotos, well said.
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Re: Political equality

Postby Kikapu » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:30 pm

Lordo wrote:
Kikapu wrote:I don‘t see Anastasiades giving away the store, that he will always refuse to give everything what Turkey and the TCs want, which means that if it were to go to a referendum, that the north will say OXI themselves. Personally, Anastasiades and any other RoC leaders has/have/are playing for time and they have been very successful thus far.

really have they?


Sure they have.

What has the RoC not been able to do since 1974 as far as the free side is concerned, politically and economically, and without any permission needed from the TCs and Turkey?
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Re: Political equality

Postby Lordo » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:43 pm

now thats very interesting. back in 1967 there were no tc mps in parliament and it voted uninanimously to enosis with greece. and yet they were unable to. in 1974 they organised a coup and put in place a dick-tator who was the best advoctae of enosis. still no enosis. in 2004 they joined the eu. since that they also suffered a haricut where money was taken out of peoples' private bank acounts. and yet 2018 they felt the need to remind the schoolchildren that in 1950 plebesite 95% of gc voted for enosis. so you reckon they wee able to do everything they wished.
So what stops them fromenosising with greece so they can declare sheepros grik island?

why have they been negotiating all these years. if it has all been to stop tcs from having the same power that says a lot about your avearge gc and ho wlittle brains it has.
dream on.
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Re: Political equality

Postby Lordo » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:16 pm

Sotos wrote:Here is the first result that Google gives on the term of Political Equality:

Of the various ways in which citizens in the United States can be unequal, political inequality is- one of the most significant and troubling. By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech. Equal consideration of the preferences and needs of all citizens is fostered by equal political activity among citizens; not only equal voting turnout across significant categories of citizens but equality in other forms of activity.


Note that USA is also a federation, but Political Equality is about the equality of citizens not of ethnic groups or even states. The term Political Equality in the negotiations for the Cyprus Problem is very vague, but it is explicitly stated that it does NOT mean numerical equality, and that TCs can have veto power only for the change of constitution and a few other agreed things, but not on everything. The Turks now want "one positive vote" on everything, which is essentially another way to get veto on everything.

To give you an example, if you give ELAM or the Greens "one positive vote" you make them more powerful than AKEL. The whole point of having more MPs is that a greater numbers gives you greater power. Otherwise what is the point of having more MPs? To warm up the chairs? So the Turks are trying to circumvent the agreement that Political Equality does NOT mean numerical equality, and essentially get 50% power even thought they are the 18%.

To some idiots (even on our side) they hear "Political Equality" and they think "hey, equality, that's a good thing!". What those idiots don't understand is that "Political Equality" of groups of different sizes is in fact political inequality. It is the same thing as when we say that the top 1% of people have equal wealth to the bottom 50%. If you are an idiot you might think "hey, both classes have an equal amount of wealth, great!" but if you are not an idiot you realize that each individual within that 1% has a lot more wealth than each individual in that 50%, and that this equality between the 1% and the 50% in fact demonstrates a gross inequality.

The argument of the Turks that such kind of "Political Equality" is something that exists in all Federations and that without it the result is a unitary state, is pure nonsense. In the USA for example the States are equal only in the Senate and of course all citizens are free to be residents with full political rights of any state they want, there is no such thing as the "Whites State" and the "Blacks State".

when did akinci ask for positive vote for everything you ignorant swine. the whole point of bbf is that one side will not be able to impose its will on the other at the state level. the equality is at the federal where the constitution will be agreed and the power will be devided between the federal government and the states. the federal level decision from that point on will need positive vote because gcs are not allowed to change the constitution without the agreement of the tcs. which bit of the bbf do you not understand you ignorant swine.
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Re: Political equality

Postby Sotos » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:40 am

I understand very well the kind of BBF that you want: Two completely separate ethnic based states (i.e. partition) and then 50%-50% partnership in the central government. Which bit of "Fuck you, shove your BBF up your ass" do you not understand?

I remind you that you are the ones who invaded our island to impose your will on us. Now you think that the north is yours and that we shouldn't have any right to "impose" anything on the land you stole from us. You want us to recognize the north as yours, and on top of that to make you 50% partners in an EU state!

Forget about it. We do not have the power to liberate the north, but at least we will have the satisfaction of seeing your treasonous minority disappearing from the face of the earth as a result of your own greed.
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