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Boeing 737 MAX+

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:55 pm

CrookedRiverGuy wrote:
Kikapu wrote:I don’t think there are any domestic destinations in France (not counting the French islands in the Pacific and the Caribbean) which are further than 2.5 hrs flight, so that would mean almost no flights at all. If this is repeated in other European countries, the skies would be virtually empty other than flights heading to international destinations. Personally, that would be a good thing to reduce the carbon footprints by not flying when not necessary, especially when there are better alternatives to travel such as high speed rail.



Ehm

routes than can be covered by train in under two-and-a-half hours


Oops, I missed that. Thanks. :oops:
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:57 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:I don’t think there are any domestic destinations in France (not counting the French islands in the Pacific and the Caribbean) which are further than 2.5 hrs flight, so that would mean almost no flights at all. If this is repeated in other European countries, the skies would be virtually empty other than flights heading to international destinations. Personally, that would be a good thing to reduce the carbon footprints by not flying when not necessary, especially when there are better alternatives to travel such as high speed rail.


Having, in a distant life, (when I was young and beautiful. Well, you get the idea :lol: ) flown the Inverness/Hrw/Inverness commuter many, many times, I can't imagine the consequences, for productivity (not to mention my BA Gold card of course) of having to take a train. :shock: I wonder just how much less carbon I would have been responsible for generating, travelling on that smoke belching diesel abomination. :?

Yes, times have changed.....for the better. :D
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Londonrake » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:18 pm

Kikapu wrote:Yes, times have changed.....for the better. :D


Nahhh. Not really. :(


:lol:
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:18 pm

...those of you interested, a well presented lecture on engine failure,



cheers.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:54 am

I would often use City Airport when flying to London from Zurich. Far more civilized than Heathrow airport.

Reuters
Ground control out, remote control in at London City Airport

677EC152-CC2D-4209-971F-874E8C587776.jpeg

London City Airport becomes first major airport to rely on a remote control tower

Fri, April 30, 2021, 1:13 AM
By Sarah Young

LONDON (Reuters) - At London City Airport, the air traffic controllers have gone. Rising over the terminal building, the old control tower with its panoramic windows is deserted, with screens, a few pens and some hand sanitiser all that remains.

City quietly switched to a remote, digital air traffic control centre earlier this year, the first major international airport to do so, and on Friday it went public with the news.

The point is to improve efficiency and allow for smooth future expansion, because the same number of controllers can deal with a larger number of plane movements thanks to new technology that provides them with more data than before.

Located beside former dockyards a few miles east of the Canary Wharf financial district, City is the smallest of London's airports. Before the pandemic, it served 5 million passengers a year, mostly travelling on business to European destinations like Frankfurt and Amsterdam.

Now, planes take off and land guided by air traffic controllers who are based 90 miles (144 km) away, in an office block in Swanwick, southwest of London.

"Not being at the airport anymore, you don't have that smell of jet fuel when you arrive at work," said controller Lawrie McCurrach from his new base.

"But fundamentally, the job hasn't changed. It's still about the controller's eyes finding the aircraft and monitoring it visually. The difference is we're using screens instead of windows." :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/grou ... 13986.html
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:11 am

Kikapu wrote:I would often use City Airport when flying to London from Zurich. Far more civilized than Heathrow airport.

Reuters
Ground control out, remote control in at London City Airport

677EC152-CC2D-4209-971F-874E8C587776.jpeg

London City Airport becomes first major airport to rely on a remote control tower

Fri, April 30, 2021, 1:13 AM
By Sarah Young

LONDON (Reuters) - At London City Airport, the air traffic controllers have gone. Rising over the terminal building, the old control tower with its panoramic windows is deserted, with screens, a few pens and some hand sanitiser all that remains.

City quietly switched to a remote, digital air traffic control centre earlier this year, the first major international airport to do so, and on Friday it went public with the news.

The point is to improve efficiency and allow for smooth future expansion, because the same number of controllers can deal with a larger number of plane movements thanks to new technology that provides them with more data than before.

Located beside former dockyards a few miles east of the Canary Wharf financial district, City is the smallest of London's airports. Before the pandemic, it served 5 million passengers a year, mostly travelling on business to European destinations like Frankfurt and Amsterdam.

Now, planes take off and land guided by air traffic controllers who are based 90 miles (144 km) away, in an office block in Swanwick, southwest of London.

"Not being at the airport anymore, you don't have that smell of jet fuel when you arrive at work," said controller Lawrie McCurrach from his new base.

"But fundamentally, the job hasn't changed. It's still about the controller's eyes finding the aircraft and monitoring it visually. The difference is we're using screens instead of windows." :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/grou ... 13986.html


Sounds like media nonsense to me. What do they mean about “remote control tower”

The Air Traffic Controllers have not gone. They have been moved. Rather than London Controlling it’s own CTR or controlled airspace, the controllers are moved to a centrally located Air Traffic Centre. They will still have an Arrivals and Departures Controller. The only difference is, they will have a CTAF R frequency where inbound and departing aircraft will have on their Comms 2 Radio and broadcast when established on finals. That will be monitored from 50 miles out so you can hear arriving and departing traffic so as to not do something stupid like line up on finals with an aircraft lined up for departure at the other end and to also get current conditions on the ground apart from the ATIS which is the automated weather information from the weather station.

So not much changes really. And if they go over the threshold of air movement, they would probably still need a tower that can open during peak times.

Oh and the so called digital air traffic controllers would have been in place for decades now. Arrivals and Departures sit in a dark room looking at a screen all day up against a wall. Looking at dots move around and segregating traffic and slotting them in fir finals as they get handed over by Control and Traffic Flow.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:19 am

One thing I’m looking forward to is America. They are 20 years ahead of the game and leading the world in terms of the way they organize their airspace. Such a very well structured Air Traffic Control machine or system second to none. With the traffic in their airspace, everything is black or white, totally systematic and down the line.

No confusion, or opportunity for misunderstanding as they dumbed it down so much you know exactly what happens next. Professional.

Line up, take off, fly from ILS to ILS, land. Maybe a couple of holding patterns in between which are preprogrammed into the Flight plan anyway so all you do is press the hold button and the aircraft turns on to its outbound leg after its entry segment to join the pattern, automatically and you set you speed and altitude as directed.

Children of the magenta line. :lol:
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:41 am

Paphitis wrote:One thing I’m looking forward to is America. They are 20 years ahead of the game and leading the world in terms of the way they organize their airspace. Such a very well structured Air Traffic Control machine or system second to none. With the traffic in their airspace, everything is black or white, totally systematic and down the line.

No confusion, or opportunity for misunderstanding as they dumbed it down so much you know exactly what happens next. Professional.

Line up, take off, fly from ILS to ILS, land. Maybe a couple of holding patterns in between which are preprogrammed into the Flight plan anyway so all you do is press the hold button and the aircraft turns on to its outbound leg after its entry segment to join the pattern, automatically and you set you speed and altitude as directed.

Children of the magenta line. :lol:


Still, commercial pilots have landed at wrong airports/runways/lined up to taxiways on approach or have overflown destination airports without realizing it. :wink:
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:47 am

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:One thing I’m looking forward to is America. They are 20 years ahead of the game and leading the world in terms of the way they organize their airspace. Such a very well structured Air Traffic Control machine or system second to none. With the traffic in their airspace, everything is black or white, totally systematic and down the line.

No confusion, or opportunity for misunderstanding as they dumbed it down so much you know exactly what happens next. Professional.

Line up, take off, fly from ILS to ILS, land. Maybe a couple of holding patterns in between which are preprogrammed into the Flight plan anyway so all you do is press the hold button and the aircraft turns on to its outbound leg after its entry segment to join the pattern, automatically and you set you speed and altitude as directed.

Children of the magenta line. :lol:


Still, commercial pilots have landed at wrong airports/runways/lined up to taxiways on approach or have overflown destination airports without realizing it. :wink:


Maybe pilots with a Commercial License flying a bug smasher in the outback or non controlled airports have.

With some anecdotal tales of the occasional airliner lining up on a major highway initially. That can only happen when you are on a visual approach to an unfamiliar airport. But visual arrivals are rare in our case. We never do them. Where fly to an Initial Approach Fix of an ILS, or RNAV. And we shoot an approach. The instruments never lie.

But the way the tech is these days, I just find it inconceivable. I have however lined up on finals (15 miles on an RNAV) and heard of planes taxiing to the reciprocal runway. We get on the blower and they hold short for us.
Last edited by Paphitis on Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:49 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:One thing I’m looking forward to is America. They are 20 years ahead of the game and leading the world in terms of the way they organize their airspace. Such a very well structured Air Traffic Control machine or system second to none. With the traffic in their airspace, everything is black or white, totally systematic and down the line.

No confusion, or opportunity for misunderstanding as they dumbed it down so much you know exactly what happens next. Professional.

Line up, take off, fly from ILS to ILS, land. Maybe a couple of holding patterns in between which are preprogrammed into the Flight plan anyway so all you do is press the hold button and the aircraft turns on to its outbound leg after its entry segment to join the pattern, automatically and you set you speed and altitude as directed.

Children of the magenta line. :lol:


Still, commercial pilots have landed at wrong airports/runways/lined up to taxiways on approach or have overflown destination airports without realizing it. :wink:


Maybe pilots with a Commercial License flying a bug smasher in the outback or non controlled airports have.

With some anecdotal tales of the occasional airliner lining up on a major highway initially.

But the way the tech is these days, I just find it inconceivable. I have however lined up on finals (15 miles on an RNAV) and heard of planes taxiing to the reciprocal runway. We get on the blower and they hold short for us.


No, I meant commercial pilots with major airlines.
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