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the war against Libya

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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:54 am

The situation here is extremely dire and very dangerous for Greece and Cyprus.

All of Greece's and Cyprus" natural wealth is at stake.

turkey is very quickly and swiftly executing its plan to steal it, with its gunboat diplomacy and threats of war.

I think Greece now has a responsibility to defend its EEZ at all cost. The problem is this, it could draw Cyprus into a war as well, on the island against Turkey.

I think we should all wish Greece well, and hope they make all the right decisions because everything is riding on them now, and also its partners in the Mediterranean.
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:03 am

Kikapu wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...it is no coincidence that all the neighbouring countries get something more, territoriality speaking, if they ignore their commitments to the East Med. Gas Forum; it is not likely. No one but Turkey (and the Libyan regime), believes their view, that UNCLOS is unenforceable.

Where Turkey is a late-comer to the game, she still remains an equal among equals; she may join them at any time on these terms. While her maximalist approach may be most disturbing to the balance of power as it is, no real demonstration of superiority as yet has been demonstrated. Her claims as yet are claims, neither tested in a Court of Law, or the High Seas.

But it has been tested, in which island countries like the UK and Iceland do have their 200 miles EEZ, so Turkey is just pissing into the wind when she makes a false claims that Islands Cyprus and Crete and all the other Greek islands can only have 12 miles of territorial waters. Turkey has nothing to lose by trying once again to steal what belongs to others, but she won’t get away with it. I doubt she will even go to the ICJ to defend her case when the time comes.


the problem is kikapu, countries like Turkey not only do not go to the ICJ, but they IGNORE any ruling which will be in Greece's favour.

China is doing the same thing in the South China Sea.

The only thing Turkey can't ignore is if the Hellenic Navy actually fire on their drilling ship.

And what Greece has to hope for is they have international support and that seems to be the case at this stage. Hopefully this support is real enough to bring the Italian and french and possibly Spanish navy into play. Egypt will throw everything behind Greece.
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:43 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...it is no coincidence that all the neighbouring countries get something more, territoriality speaking, if they ignore their commitments to the East Med. Gas Forum; it is not likely. No one but Turkey (and the Libyan regime), believes their view, that UNCLOS is unenforceable.

Where Turkey is a late-comer to the game, she still remains an equal among equals; she may join them at any time on these terms. While her maximalist approach may be most disturbing to the balance of power as it is, no real demonstration of superiority as yet has been demonstrated. Her claims as yet are claims, neither tested in a Court of Law, or the High Seas.

But it has been tested, in which island countries like the UK and Iceland do have their 200 miles EEZ, so Turkey is just pissing into the wind when she makes a false claims that Islands Cyprus and Crete and all the other Greek islands can only have 12 miles of territorial waters. Turkey has nothing to lose by trying once again to steal what belongs to others, but she won’t get away with it. I doubt she will even go to the ICJ to defend her case when the time comes.


the problem is kikapu, countries like Turkey not only do not go to the ICJ, but they IGNORE any ruling which will be in Greece's favour.

China is doing the same thing in the South China Sea.

The only thing Turkey can't ignore is if the Hellenic Navy actually fire on their drilling ship.

And what Greece has to hope for is they have international support and that seems to be the case at this stage. Hopefully this support is real enough to bring the Italian and french and possibly Spanish navy into play. Egypt will throw everything behind Greece.


I agree.

Turkey’s main beef is to try and block any gas pipeline from Cyprus to Crete to Greece to Italy. They want the gas to go through Turkey, so Turkey’s MOU with Libya is to deny the rights of others to build the pipeline through “their” EEZ without permission. The EU will not stand for that and neither would Israel and Egypt. Now you understand why Turkey wants the S-400s independent from any NATO missile system to try and enforce “their” illegal EEZ.
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Maximus » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:59 pm

Turkey is playing the wrong game, she could get what she wants without such resistance and struggle.

But, she is always on the wrong side of history.

If she was a bedrock of stability for the region, if she was trustworthy and not a rogue state, she could have had a pipeline that transits every ones gas.
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:35 pm

Maximus wrote:Turkey is playing the wrong game, she could get what she wants without such resistance and struggle.

But, she is always on the wrong side of history.

If she was a bedrock of stability for the region, if she was trustworthy and not a rogue state, she could have had a pipeline that transits every ones gas.


Well you know, the criminal mind works differently! :wink:
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:07 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:Turkey is playing the wrong game, she could get what she wants without such resistance and struggle.

But, she is always on the wrong side of history.

If she was a bedrock of stability for the region, if she was trustworthy and not a rogue state, she could have had a pipeline that transits every ones gas.


Well you know, the criminal mind works differently! :wink:


What I would like to know is the TC perspective.

The other day, the RoC made a decision to fund after hours tutoring of Turkish Cypriot Students. This is something Greek Cypriots don't get as they have to self fund. So the RoC has bent itself backwards to help the TCs. This aside from free health care and other welfare payments as well.

Why are the TCs silent about the Cypriot Natural resources? These resources belong to all Cypriots and yet the TCs seem happy to lose their Natural Wealth and assist Turkey.

Why?
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Maximus » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:13 pm

Erdogan is living in a militarised dreamworld, some might say on a nightmarish planet.

Under Erdogan, Turkey seems to be drifting dangerously, along a path drawn by a leader who sees his dreams as achievable at the barrel of the gun.

Hoping — or rather fantasising — Turkey is the new regional superpower; as the gendarme of the Middle East and North Africa. Erdogan wants to flex Turkish muscle all over the map. Where he sees himself as the great sultan of all times.

He is projecting military power in all directions and that is likely to spread too thin before he knows it.

Clearly, Erdogan’s Turkey is overreaching, he is trying to bite off far more than he can chew.

https://thearabweekly.com/erdogans-gunb ... -dangerous
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Maximus » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:15 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:Turkey is playing the wrong game, she could get what she wants without such resistance and struggle.

But, she is always on the wrong side of history.

If she was a bedrock of stability for the region, if she was trustworthy and not a rogue state, she could have had a pipeline that transits every ones gas.


Well you know, the criminal mind works differently! :wink:


What I would like to know is the TC perspective.

The other day, the RoC made a decision to fund after hours tutoring of Turkish Cypriot Students. This is something Greek Cypriots don't get as they have to self fund. So the RoC has bent itself backwards to help the TCs. This aside from free health care and other welfare payments as well.

Why are the TCs silent about the Cypriot Natural resources? These resources belong to all Cypriots and yet the TCs seem happy to lose their Natural Wealth and assist Turkey.

Why?


A) Its a puppet regime
B) They are crypto Turks that only call themselves Cypriot when it suits them
C) They take advantage because the GC are stupid enough
D) All of the above.
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Maximus » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:24 pm

Actually, they believe that the EEZ of the "TRNC" wraps around most or the island and they have a right to share that with Turkey.

Furthermore, they believe Turkeys argument about her EEZ boundaries in the med.

They are not silent, they just dont believe the RoC has an EEZ under UNCLOS.

It all belongs to them and Turkey based on their own delusional that they have convinced themselves to believe.
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Re: the war against Libya

Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:30 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Maximus wrote:Turkey is playing the wrong game, she could get what she wants without such resistance and struggle.

But, she is always on the wrong side of history.

If she was a bedrock of stability for the region, if she was trustworthy and not a rogue state, she could have had a pipeline that transits every ones gas.


Well you know, the criminal mind works differently! :wink:


What I would like to know is the TC perspective.

The other day, the RoC made a decision to fund after hours tutoring of Turkish Cypriot Students. This is something Greek Cypriots don't get as they have to self fund. So the RoC has bent itself backwards to help the TCs. This aside from free health care and other welfare payments as well.

Why are the TCs silent about the Cypriot Natural resources? These resources belong to all Cypriots and yet the TCs seem happy to lose their Natural Wealth and assist Turkey.

Why?


I can only give you a generalized answer regarding the TCs in the north.

I don’t believe most TCs in the north attach their TCness to the RoC, but instead they attach it to the “trnc”. They have no sense of loyalty to the RoC no matter what freebies they may get and never did, or else, they would want a Democratic system for a settlement. They don’t and neither does Turkey, so whatever harm the TCs can inflict on the RoC, they will not lose any sleep over it. This being the case, I cannot relate to the average TC in the north, nor would I accept their separatists intentions. TCs are only harming their own community’s future by just being a servant to Turkey’s illegal activities with her neighbours. The TCs act like Gypsies where they take all they can from whoever no matter what the consequences are. They have no direction for the future for their community and will end up without a future. They are slowly being absorbed in being Turks and only are a TC in name only.
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