The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


the war against Libya

Everything related to politics in Cyprus and the rest of the world.

Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:44 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...in any case, Greece has attack aircraft, Turkey does not have the same range. And as i recall, Greece has more frigates too.

It would not be an easy fight if Greece were to go at it alone, what with Turkey's superiority in numbers; but in the moments which would start a war, it would be an even fight, training and discipline will count for a lot. Though, in a year or two Turkey will have bigger numbers and sizes of ships.
(Let's not forget the batteries of S-400s Turkey is acquiring, either.) (Let's not forget the S-300 stationed in Crete).

Spain i ask, what will she do, who does she support, because at some point her, Italy and Libya will have to settle their own boundaries. She, with Turkey have excellent relations, or have her Patriots been pulled from Turkish soil, correct me if i'm wrong, she is close to Turkey in Naval affairs too.

...so far brinkmanship has had some success; witness what DAESH was capable of doing live on TV, and still those not "them" did not rise up in unity against these horrors. It is not so hard for Erdogan's Turkey to imagine that the same on the high seas is a far cry less reason to draw equal force and attention. In Syria, Turkey has what she wants, (from Russia, and, America,) that too is worth mentioning.

In any case, France, Italy, and Egypt have made their position very clear, and along with Israel they form a significant balance to Turkey's hostility.

...a wider war, if Turkey's, Army, invades Greece's mainland, (or a populated island) how would NATO and/or the EU react to that; could they expect Greece to go it alone? It is a possibility. And yet, as things are, it does not stop at Greece, and/or Cyprus, those not "Turkish" must not think that appeasement or a tribute secures anything more, than more attention in that way. Indeed, the balance of power in this wider region has been opened to change.


What are you talking about Turkey doesn't have the same range?

Turkey operates the same aircraft as Greece apart from the M2000, and Turkey also has air to air refueling capability (KC-135R).

The US Senate has just passed a bill banning Turkey's acquisition of the 116 F-35 JSF, but they have been developing their own Fighter program with Boeing. That might fall through too hopefully.

Greece wants to upgrade its M2000 fleet but France opposes that as they believe Greece is better served replacing them with Euro-fighter Typhoon. I agree with France's position that Greece should replace M2000 with the Typhoon.

I also believe that Greece should replace the F-16s with the F-35 JSF.

So I want to know what is happening with the 11+6 F-35s Turkey ordered which are now not going to happen. Greece needs to get a few of these. This is one of the reasons why I think the meeting between trump and Greek PM is going to be so interesting. Will their be an announcement? :?

My understanding is that the first few Turkish F-35s have already been built or on the line. Maybe they can just hand these over to Greece. :D

Problem is, the Typhoon and F-35 will cost Billions. It's money they probably don't have, but at stake are Trillions worth of resources.

Greece has signed a LOI for the new French Belharra Stealth Frigates.

Turkey would have only had superiority if she got the F-35s. Greece is ahead of the game with its Navy but it does need new Frigate Replacements. The big ace up Greece's sleeve is its Submarines.

The S400 are not even a player. Nearly impossible for the Turks to have major success with these given the range the Greek Ships will be from them, however the Greek S300s are in a prime location to do more damage.

Not to mention the fact that the USA is transferring hundreds of upgraded patriot PAC 3 SAMs to Greece.

But the big game changers are the Predator Drones, and F-35s. Greece needs those F-35s. If Greece gets these, then say bye bye Erdog. :D
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 29689
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:26 am

Well it looks like Israel, Cyprus, Greece and USA have signed an MOU to build the pipeline from Israel, to Cyprus, then to Crete, through the Peloponnese, across the Corinth Gulf and then across the Adriatic Sea to Italy.

:D :D :D

This looks like Israel and USA are putting their foot down against the criminal Turks.

User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 29689
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby Cap » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:35 pm

The thing with Israel.
Those that go against the state suffer the consequences.
Those that go for the state reap the benefits.
Either you believe in ancient scripture or you don't, the result remains the same.

It's uncanny, I know.
User avatar
Cap
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7276
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:55 pm
Location: Cypriot Empire

Re: the war against Libya

Postby MR-from-NG » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:58 pm

As always, living in fantasy land. You should give up your day job and start writing film scripts, you certainly have the right credentials.
So I buy myself a couple of knuckledusters and offer Anthony Joshua a fight, in or out of the ring. How much have I increased my chances by of winning Paphitis?
MR-from-NG
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:58 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:09 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:As always, living in fantasy land. You should give up your day job and start writing film scripts, you certainly have the right credentials.
So I buy myself a couple of knuckledusters and offer Anthony Joshua a fight, in or out of the ring. How much have I increased my chances by of winning Paphitis?


I think you should ask your GP to change your meds! :?
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 29689
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby MR-from-NG » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:31 pm

Paphitis wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:As always, living in fantasy land. You should give up your day job and start writing film scripts, you certainly have the right credentials.
So I buy myself a couple of knuckledusters and offer Anthony Joshua a fight, in or out of the ring. How much have I increased my chances by of winning Paphitis?


I think you should ask your GP to change your meds! :?

So, forget the knuckledusters and go for things like.....steroids........ like doping? Genius, fucking genius :lol: :lol: :lol:
MR-from-NG
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:58 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby MR-from-NG » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:36 pm

Should I take a few valiums too just in case things goes wrong for me so that the whole thing can be like a........blur? a dream? :lol: :lol:
MR-from-NG
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:58 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:01 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:Should I take a few valiums too just in case things goes wrong for me so that the whole thing can be like a........blur? a dream? :lol: :lol:


Errr...yeh go right ahead... :?
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 29689
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby MR-from-NG » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:10 pm

Paphitis wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:Should I take a few valiums too just in case things goes wrong for me so that the whole thing can be like a........blur? a dream? :lol: :lol:


Errr...yeh go right ahead... :?

I always knew you had a soft spot for me :wink:
MR-from-NG
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:58 pm

Re: the war against Libya

Postby Paphitis » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:09 am

MR-from-NG wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:Should I take a few valiums too just in case things goes wrong for me so that the whole thing can be like a........blur? a dream? :lol: :lol:


Errr...yeh go right ahead... :?

I always knew you had a soft spot for me :wink:


Of course I have a a soft spot for you.

Your argument though is a nothing burger. Every country must arm itself to protect its interests. It isn't about starting wars but protecting your borders and sovereignty and as we all know there are other issues such as protecting economic interests like fisheries and resources within your legitimate EEZ as defined by UNCLOS.

Greece is not interested in invading Turkey, or annexing part of its territory or stealing what is rightfully belonging to Turkey. Greece however is cursed to have Turkey as a neighbor. That's because Turkey does threaten Greece with war and annexing islands and creating a fait accompli on its legitimate EEZ.

As a result, Greece must arm itself to defend its territory and EEZ, because its EEZ has resources which could be valuable to the Greek People and make them see brighter days for once. Greece isn't interested in any war.

Other countries arm themselves also to protect vital interests. Australia for instance arms itself to maintain a balance with China but to also protect vital economic interests. Now China is a big country, and Australia isn't going to start a war with them but what it does is create a useful deterrance to maintain security and stability in the region also on China's doorstep with regards to the South China Sea. Why? Well China's neighbors do have international law on their side and most of those countries are also allies but Australia doesn't stick its nose in because it is somekind of "goody two shoes". It does it in part as a show of solidarity with China's neighbors and to protect vital sea lanes so there is a vested interest here.

But no matter what, and the same applies to Greece and Cyprus, no one is going to fight your battles for you. Hence why countries like Greece and Thailand must arm themselves and make the first move and rely on the solidarity of other countries to intervene, which will occur.

Greece has a number of things going for it. It has a very strong alliance with Egypt. Also an alliance with Israel, France and Italy who are prepared to throw their weight behind Greece. Also the support of the EU which wants to guarantee its Natural Gas supply and has thrown in millions already for the EastMed pipeline feasibility study. The USA has also thrown its weight behind Greece and is a signatory on the MOU with Greece, Cyprus, Egypt and Israel.

Not only that, but the USA has embargoed Turkey from the F-35. The USA has also abolished arms embargoes against the Republic of Cyprus. So things are swinging Greece's way.

And yes, the Greeks don't need to necessarily buy the F-35 but it would be a gamechanger if they did. All Greece needs to do is stick to its guns and obstruct any potential Turkish drilling in its EEZ. It is perfectly within its rights to do that. And Greece must fire on any such ship if necessary otherwise Turkey would have called Greece's bluff and that doesn't work because it will embolden Turkey further. Might as well let the Turks rape you.

If Turkey then reacts in a polemic way, then Turkey's international reputation is at stake and the danger of war would obviously necessitate the reaction of Egypt, Israel, France, and Italy as well as other NATO countries. Greece has the armed strength to withstand Turkey whilst the international community engages itself in the matter on Greece's side.

No one can afford to take Turkey's side because that undermines UNCLOS which the West rely on in other areas like the South China Sea for instance and because let's face it, the West has economic interests which happen to align with the Greeks.

Personally, i think Turkey has isolated itself internationally.

And yeh, the F-35 is important. it will swing the balance of power in Greece's favor. The TAF will NOT be able to fight the F-35. Turkish Aircraft won't even see the F-35 as the Greek F-35's sniper all of Turkey's air assets out of the sky from over 100 kilometers away. The F-35 is definitely a game changer as it can knock out Turkish aircraft deep within Turkey.

no Turkish aircraft will be able to get close for a dogfight against the F-35 and that my friend is the power of this aircraft and why it is an imperative objective as the game-changer it is. The F-35 will save thousands of Greek lives and protect Greece and also save it from Billions in damages. If there is a war, they have paid for themselves 10 fold.

It can completely decimate the Turkish Air Force. I am not exaggerating.

The only chance an F-16 has is if it can get close enough for a dogfight as the F-35 isn't designed for that. It's designed to pick off targets from a distance before it's even seen. It will pick up targets 300 kilometers away. F-35s can shoot down enemy aircraft whilst flying over Corfu. Turkey will not even know from where the missile came.

The price of the F35A is also falling. They are now 85 million USD per unit. About the same as the Rafale and Eurofighter.

personally I think Greece needs to get the Rafale and F-35A ASAP. Rafale will fulfill the dogfight roll in case anything gets past the F-35A which is unlikely.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 29689
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Politics and Elections

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests