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...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:21 am

repulsewarrior wrote:And what is wrong with Constituencies, if as Constituencies "they" recognise as majorities holding an Agenda, that minorities do have special needs, that they should be recognised and respected, by providing for their needs, as well.

Wouldn't it be nice if in Jerusalem, religion, that is to say the religious, demonstrated the unity that God commands, that we should love one another, to be loving; is that not the Golden rule?

A Jewish state is possible in Israel, so too an Arab state, and even one Christian; yet, all these Persons, as a People and as Individuals, still need representation as such: a State based on Principal and Law that is universal, without further distinction or discrimination.

...fancy tunnels and bridges, frankly, reminds me of the wall, a frail thing which is mostly for show.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/02/02/at-e ... -dwindles/

Israel is better than this plan, it appears as though Netanyahu like Trump forgets their roots.


In 1948 had Israel been created as a State without that State driving people off their lands to create that State, then there would have been a relatively peaceful transition. There can be no argument that the Israelis are far better organised and had all people benefitted from being Israeli, rather than just Jewish, the State would have grown by the will and democratic vote of the people surrounding Israel, as they saw Israeli' citizens lives improve, Citizens of all Faiths and backgrounds .

Annexing the land from Arab owners and driving them out is the primary cause of all the troubles.

Crimea was annexed from a fascist State of Ukraine by the choice of the people into a State of their choice? This could have been applied in the Palestinian Territories through the will of the people. By ZIONIST's choosing it to be a Land only for 'God's chosen people' The ZIONIST's, not Jews per se, created a Jewish Only State and stole all the Palestinians lands, which was the intent from the very inception of the project in the late 1800's. :(
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:35 pm

RH made a comment that Cyprus was never a state: that forgets the period 1192 to 1489 when it was.
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:17 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:RH made a comment that Cyprus was never a state: that forgets the period 1192 to 1489 when it was.



I apologise if my comment was incorrect but I have tried to find the period you refer to with no luck! Several 'Kings' in the past but associated with a particular town such as Salamis, but no mention of Cyprus as a functioning integrated State. How about a link?
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Paphitis » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:27 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Paphitis wrote:You can call it what you want.

The reality however is that Israel has its defined borders.

Just because Israel 'SAY's' ....... does not make it so! There is such a thing as International Agreements and Protocols but the US and its Allies appear to only apply these to others, they claim 'exception'! Israel has only two borders agreed those with Egypt and Jordon and that could change at any time! So you are wrong again!

'Yes, well I think the maps are more than just an opinion. Suicide is unacceptable.

as for the Gaza Strip and West Bank, well that has always been on the table, but the other side doesn't want to negotiate with israel and Israel doesn't want and will never negotiate anything with Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Al Quds, Hamaz or Hezbollah.

Houston, we have a problem. Well not really. Doesn't appear to be much of a problem for Israel.

I'm sure the dayton Agreements of the 90s could be a good basis, but the PLO has been compromised.

You make these pompous predictions and badly informed comments on every thread associated with the ME/Russia/Syris etc. So far you have been wrong virtually every time. :roll:




Well I guess you are pushing shit uphill then.

Because Israel doesn't particularly care what you or anyone else thinks. They are just going to forge ahead and defend their state no matter what it takes.

If the Palestinians want to negotiate, then it's just over West Bank and Gaza. Nothing else is on offer, or will ever be on offer.

So yeh, it;s a take it leave it scenario. Jerusalem is off the table.

The other problem the Palestinians face is that Israel will NEVER sit at a negotiating table with Hamaz, Hezbollah, Iran, Lebanon, or Syria. That is their right to do stick to this, because I wouldn't talk to them either.
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Paphitis » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:33 am

Robin Hood wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:And what is wrong with Constituencies, if as Constituencies "they" recognise as majorities holding an Agenda, that minorities do have special needs, that they should be recognised and respected, by providing for their needs, as well.

Wouldn't it be nice if in Jerusalem, religion, that is to say the religious, demonstrated the unity that God commands, that we should love one another, to be loving; is that not the Golden rule?

A Jewish state is possible in Israel, so too an Arab state, and even one Christian; yet, all these Persons, as a People and as Individuals, still need representation as such: a State based on Principal and Law that is universal, without further distinction or discrimination.

...fancy tunnels and bridges, frankly, reminds me of the wall, a frail thing which is mostly for show.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/02/02/at-e ... -dwindles/

Israel is better than this plan, it appears as though Netanyahu like Trump forgets their roots.


In 1948 had Israel been created as a State without that State driving people off their lands to create that State, then there would have been a relatively peaceful transition. There can be no argument that the Israelis are far better organised and had all people benefitted from being Israeli, rather than just Jewish, the State would have grown by the will and democratic vote of the people surrounding Israel, as they saw Israeli' citizens lives improve, Citizens of all Faiths and backgrounds .

Annexing the land from Arab owners and driving them out is the primary cause of all the troubles.

Crimea was annexed from a fascist State of Ukraine by the choice of the people into a State of their choice? This could have been applied in the Palestinian Territories through the will of the people. By ZIONIST's choosing it to be a Land only for 'God's chosen people' The ZIONIST's, not Jews per se, created a Jewish Only State and stole all the Palestinians lands, which was the intent from the very inception of the project in the late 1800's. :(


Israel does grant Palestinians Citizen Rights and the ability to to reside and hold property in the State of Israel.

They also have elected members.

If the Palestinians want to discuss the 2 state Solution, they are free to make that known, but they don't seem interested.

Not only that but Palestinians are able to serve The Israeli Defence Forces and have been joining in growing numbers. The democratic principles and freedoms for Palestinians to join the Israeli State and be pro-active are already there. Israel doesn't exclude them from anything.

There are even entire Arab IDF units and there are even Arab Airmen in the ADF, maybe even officers and pilots.

The problem is, that there are many Palestinians don't want to be a part of Israel, which is why there are proposals for a 2 state Solution comprising West Bank and Gaza.

Even with a 2 State Solution, there will still be many Palestinians who are going to choose to be Israeli. that's because Israel will offer them greater freedoms, and rights.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/arab ... ls-n724586

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37895021
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby CrookedRiverGuy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:31 pm

Paphitis wrote:The problem is, that there are many Palestinians don't want to be a part of Israel


Yeah right! It's just as smart as saying
"The problem is, that there are many Cypriots don't want to be a part of Turkey"



You seriously should ask to have your tuition fees reimbursed
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Paphitis » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:53 pm

CrookedRiverGuy wrote:
Paphitis wrote:The problem is, that there are many Palestinians don't want to be a part of Israel


Yeah right! It's just as smart as saying
"The problem is, that there are many Cypriots don't want to be a part of Turkey"



You seriously should ask to have your tuition fees reimbursed


There are many Palestinians that are getting on with life and trying to live a good life within the State of Israel proper and do not live in the West Bank or Gaza.

One example I came across and we are all too familiar with in Australia is when a young beautiful Palestinian girl attending university in Melbourne went for a walk in the park at night, and was raped and then murdered by an Aboriginal. It was a terrible tragedy. I will never forget the interview from her extremely distraught father.

The poor girl came from a good Palestinian middle class family. Her father had to come to Australia and boy oh boy he was a crushed man. It was a terrible thing.

The entire family were Israeli Citizens and the Australian Authorities were dealing with the Israeli Embassy which provided every kind of support to this family. It was very good to see what the Embassy of Israel were doing. To them, this girl was an Israeli.

There are many Palestinians that participate and thrive within the Israeli State. There are those who do not want to live or condone even the existence of Hamaz and Hezbollah and do not want to live under their rule.

This Palestinian Girl that was sadly murdered, was very secular and her family was highly educated and very liberal. You couldn't even tell she was Muslim.

In addition, there are Palestinians and Arabs serving within the Israeli Defence Forces. So it's not as if Israel is trying to crush them. The doors of the IDF are open to them, and I presume there are Palestinians that have made careers out of the IDF as professionally paid soldiers. Jews don't get that privilege because for them, service is mandatory. And on the other side of the coin, there are those Jews (Fundamentalists Orthodox Jews) who refuse to serve the IDF because they don't believe in the israeli State because for them the State can only exist with the emergence of the Messiah (who did actually come in the form of Jesus). Again, it takes all sorts.

I guess it depends on your point of view and outlook on life doesn't it? It takes all sorts, but I for one can imagine myself preferring the Israeli state than any Hamaz or Hezbollah alternative. And Israel gives every opportunity for Palestinians and Arabs to make that choice with citizenship, suffrage and just co-existing peacefully within their state and even elect their own representatives in the Knesset and serving the IDF if they want to.

And the fact that some do serve the IDF is a very big credit to Israel for allowing Palestinians the opportunity to participate as citizens within their state as proper Israelis.
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:52 pm

Paphitis

You really should do a bit more research before you make these stupid claims. :roll:

Are you aware there is no such thing as an Israeli? You are an ‘Arab Israeli’ or a ‘Jewish Israeli’ and the two classes of citizen are treated very differently. That is why by most of the World Israel is considered an Apartheid state! You really do talk nonsense by trying to make it appear they all live happily together.

Just one article ..... but all articles on the subject say the same thing. It is only fools that think Arabs in Israel are treated the same as Jewish citizens and live integrated with the Jewish population. You will never find an Arab Israeli living in close proximity to Jewish Israeli’s, they don’t even attend the same schools of use the same hospitals .......... or even roads! I am sorry to disillusion you but you do talk a load of naive and ill-informed rubbish!

Try reading up on a few facts:

A report from Human Rights Watch.

Separate and Unequal - Israel’s Discriminatory Treatment of Palestinians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

This report consists of a series of case studies that compare Israel’s different treatment of Jewish settlements to nearby Palestinian communities throughout the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. It describes the two-tier system of laws, rules, and services that Israel operates for the two populations in areas in the West Bank under its exclusive control, which provide preferential services, development, and benefits for Jewish settlers while imposing harsh conditions on Palestinians. The report highlights Israeli practices the only discernable purposes of which appear to be promoting life in the settlements while in many instances stifling growth in Palestinian communities and even forcibly displacing Palestinian residents. Such different treatment, on the basis of race, ethnicity, and national origin and not narrowly tailored to meet security or other justifiable goals, violates the fundamental prohibition against discrimination under human rights law.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/12/19/separate-and-unequal/israels-discriminatory-treatment-palestinians-occupied


There are differences between the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and the Zionist invasion of Palestine. But whichever way you look at it, both were and still are, illegal Imagine this Island today if the Turks had not stopped when they did and Limassol was treated like Gaza and Strovolos treated like the Israeli’s treat Palestinians in Jerusalem? I am surprised any Cypriot can regard Israel and its government with anything but loathing. But YOU think the Israeli’s are Cyprus’ best friend.
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Paphitis » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:31 am

There are Israelis. They are called Israeli nationals. Israeli is a nationality, and there are many Palestinians and Arabs who are Israeli Citizens, and all of them are entitled to Israeli Citizens.

If you have the Israeli passport, then you are an Israeli National. Ergo, an Israeli.

There is definitely such a thing as an Israeli!. I've seen and met many of them. They call themselves Israeli as qwell.

In fact, quite some time ago, I briefly dated an actual Israeli Girl for a while. She was Jewish from Tel Aviv, but non religious. Oh and you are going to hate this one. She was in Australia doing some work for the Zionist Federation meeting Australians Jewish People encouraging them to move to the homeland.

She loved her country and we had many political Talks together. I told her also about my feelings of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and she was fine with that saying that in Israel, there are some fanatics on their side, like there are on the other side, and that most Israeli's are also against the settlements and that there also bad relations between some Israelis and settlers in the West bank.

And no they are no fools. As an Arab or Israeli, you can have a normal life in Israel. it depends on the individual. If you are going to thrown rocks at Israeli Military Vehicles, then you probably won't have a normal life. But if you mind your own business and try and live with some normality, and even want to participate within the State Institutions such as the military, then that is possible as well. If you want to join, you can, and Israel accommodates such individuals.
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Re: ...so somebody tell me if this plan is a good one

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:48 pm

Paphitis wrote:There are Israelis. They are called Israeli nationals. Israeli is a nationality, and there are many Palestinians and Arabs who are Israeli Citizens, and all of them are entitled to Israeli Citizens.

In Israel a citizen is delineated as either Arab or Jewish ....... not just Israeli even though you hold an Israeli Passport.

If you have the Israeli passport, then you are an Israeli National. Ergo, an Israeli.

That will ONLY apply if you are outside of Israel as Israel is the only State that openly practices apartheid that I am aware of!

If an Israeli is in Israeli they are identified as either Arab or Jewish. There is no such thing as an 'Israeli without the additional sub division! If indeed you are correct then please explain how Israeli's are identified as being allowed to use 'Jews only' roads; how they determine which Israeli houses can be demolished to make way for settlers; which Israeli's are allowed to carry weapons; which Israeli's are entitled to a constant water and electrical supply; which Israeli's have complete freedom of movement without passing through check points ..... etc. etc. There is little difference between the apartheid practiced in South Africa during their period of apartheid. I am truly surprised the Israeli's do not tattoo identities on the arms of non-Jews! :roll:


There is definitely such a thing as an Israeli!. I've seen and met many of them. They call themselves Israeli as qwell.

Their passport or ID Card identifies them as Arab or Jewish.

In fact, quite some time ago, I briefly dated an actual Israeli Girl for a while. She was Jewish from Tel Aviv, but non religious. Oh and you are going to hate this one. She was in Australia doing some work for the Zionist Federation meeting Australians Jewish People encouraging them to move to the homeland.

She loved her country and we had many political Talks together. I told her also about my feelings of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and she was fine with that saying that in Israel, there are some fanatics on their side, like there are on the other side, and that most Israeli's are also against the settlements and that there also bad relations between some Israelis and settlers in the West bank.

And no they are no fools. As an Arab or Israeli, you can have a normal life in Israel. it depends on the individual. If you are going to thrown rocks at Israeli Military Vehicles, then you probably won't have a normal life. But if you mind your own business and try and live with some normality, and even want to participate within the State Institutions such as the military, then that is possible as well. If you want to join, you can, and Israel accommodates such individuals.

You obviously didn't read the Human Right Watch report ..... which is no surprise :roll: preferring your own understanding of something you clearly know little about.


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