Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

what difference does it really make what terms we use here?

The point still remains that Turkey is weaponizing them to blackmail the EU with.

They are being used as a tool of extortion and to create conflict with neighbors. Simple as that really.

Yes Turkey is exploiting their suffering and desperate situation for its own benefit and that is deplorable. I deplore it. Just as I deplore it when others do the same thing even if not to same degree. That is my point. No one has any credit here for putting the suffering of these people ahead of their own agendas. Not the EU, not Greece, not Hungary, not UK not anyone. Such people are, unfortunately, always exploited to some degree or another. Just as internally displaced in Cyprus have been exploited historically. Just as I also deplore the attempted vilification of these people of the type you seem to indulge in max. All of these things seek to just use peoples suffering to gain some kind of advantage. Whilst I deplore all such actions you it seems to me will deplore them in the loudest possible terms when committed by Turkey but not only ignore them committed by other actors you also appear to do such things yourself, to a degree and imo.

Turkey does not give a shit for the suffering of these people and if I am frank and honest Max, which is my way, my best guess is in truth neither do you or Kiks or Paphitis. To all of you, as it appears to me from what you have said and what I have understood, they are just pawns to be used. None of you seem able or willing to accept or acknowledge the simple truth that the vast majority of them are just ordinary innocent people driven to the most desperate acts and measures by the most extreme suffering who are getting systematically fucked by everyone.

these people are being vilified by Turkey.

Greece is defending its borders which is its right to do. they can't afford to do anything else because if they enter Greece, they are stuck in Greece.

If Erdogan manages to get 4 million through the border, then Greece is basically destroyed. So what turkey is doing is an act of war against Greece and an act of terrorism against their national security.

The illegals are not Greece's problem.

If they want to claim asylum, then they can go direct to the German, Swedish, British, American, Australian, Canadian, French, Italian, Norwegian et al consulates in Ankara.

[Maximus]

Erolz

Go for the ball, not the player. but I will say that your grandstanding is creating security, social and economic problems elsewhere where it didnt have to be.

These people (you can call them refugees or migrants) dont have any right to do what they are doing.

Greece does have a right, as well as any other state, to defend against external aggression and protect its borders.

Since, they are being weaponized.

[erolz66]

But Greece has closed it's border with Turkey, therefore it cannot process any applicant for asylum seekers.

Not only has it closed it borders with Turkey it has announced to the world, against all legality, that is will not process ANY asylum applications at all for the next 'month'. Do not see much condemnation of that from you Kiks ? Despite Paphitis high praise for such illegal actions on the part of Greece and what 'balls' it shows. Why is that Kiks ? One possible explanation might be that you actually do not yourself give a fuck about the suffering of these people but do like to take the opportunity to highlight Turkey's deplorable behaviour at any and every opportunity.

That being the case, they need to return to Turkey to go through the foreign embassies. Oh I forgot, Turkey won't let them in either. Funny how these migrants and refugees did not ask for political asylum in Turkey. My guess is Turkey denied them the opportunity or were flat out denied them that status. As for the Syrian refugees, I don't even think many would ask for asylum anywhere, because they want to go home to Syria. But Turkey can make them citizens of Turkey if it wants. Those at the Greek border are used by Turkey in the most disgusting way for Erdogan to blackmail the EU to get what it wants. The borders in Greece and Bulgaria with Turkey should permanently remain closed until the Syrian war is over. In the meantime, all those who are in Turkey are Turkey's problem to solve since Turkey is part of the problem in Syria.

When it suits you (and EU for that matter) argue Turkey is a safe country where these peoples rights to seek asylum there are clearly upheld and recognised by Turkey and when it suits you argue exactly the opposite.

[Maximus]

The suffering of these people........

What is the suffering of these people in Turkey Erolz?

[Paphitis]

The suffering of these people........

What is the suffering of these people in Turkey Erolz?

I guess when their military waves a cocked gun in their faces. that's a form of suffering.

Bloody criminals.

[Maximus]

The suffering of these people........

What is the suffering of these people in Turkey Erolz?

I guess when their military waves a cocked gun in their faces. that's a form of suffering.

Bloody criminals.

He is talking as if they are not being taken care of in Turkey

They are suffering in there. What are the Turks doing to them?

As if they are not working, starting businesses and living their lives......

[erolz66]

These people (you can call them refugees or migrants) dont have any right to do what they are doing.

Peoples who's lives, livelihood, way of life, homes and homelands have been destroyed by war DO have rights. Just as you would have such rights too if you were, heaven forbid, ever to find yourself in such a desperate situation. They have the right to turn up at foreign national borders and request asylum and to be treated fairly whilst that claim is assessed. They have that right as written in law in the Geneva convention and others that add to and extend from that. Which is why I would surmise it is so importation to you to try and create a fiction that 95% of these people are not those with a valid claim to asylum in the first place. When you make such claims you are exploiting these people suffering to further your own agenda in the same way Turkey is exploiting them, if not the same degree, as far as I am concerned.

Greece does have a right, as well as any other state, to defend against external aggression and protect its borders.

Any state has a right to to protect itself from unwanted migration in to that country of people who do not have a genuine claim for asylum. That does not mean it can just avoid its legal obligations under treaties it is a signatory to those who DO have a genuine claim for asylum.

[Maximus]

These people (you can call them refugees or migrants) dont have any right to do what they are doing.

Peoples who's lives, livelihood, way of life, homes and homelands have been destroyed by war DO have rights. Just as you would have such rights too if you were, heaven forbid, ever to find yourself in such a desperate situation. They have the right to turn up at foreign national borders and request asylum and to be treated fairly whilst that claim is assessed. They have that right as written in law in the Geneva convention and others that add to and extend from that. Which is why I would surmise it is so importation to you to try and create a fiction that 95% of these people are not those with a valid claim to asylum in the first place. When you make such claims you are exploiting these people suffering to further your own agenda in the same way Turkey is exploiting them, if not the same degree, as far as I am concerned.

Greece does have a right, as well as any other state, to defend against external aggression and protect its borders.

Any state has a right to to protect itself from unwanted migration in to that country of people who do not have a genuine claim for asylum. That does not mean it can just avoid its legal obligations under treaties it is a signatory to those who DO have a genuine claim for asylum.

This is going round in Circles,

Refugees have rights but these people dont have any right to be doing what they are doing at the Greek Turkish Border.

The Geneva convention also dictates that Turkey has to remove her settlers from Cyprus and all that stolen property should be returned to its rightful owners. Which basically means setters out, Turkish army out and no "TRNC".

But what is the suffering of these people in Turkey?

There is no problem with them remaining in Turkey.

[erolz66]

The suffering of these people........

What is the suffering of these people in Turkey Erolz?

I guess when their military waves a cocked gun in their faces. that's a form of suffering.

Bloody criminals.

What suffering ?

allepo.jpg

The fact is whether you like it not, people who have fled such places have a right defined in international law to seek asylum in any third party country of their choice. Just because you do not like a law does not mean you can just ignore it when it suits you. Not if you actually believe in the concept of international laws between states.

[Maximus]

They have received their legal rights as refugees.

What is their suffering in Turkey?