Cyprus-Forum.com

[yialousa1971]

[repulsewarrior]

...the defense rests.

(day 4 complete is attached, here,)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dQHN-ZB5NA

[Kikapu]

There is a very simple reason why Trump’s lawyers could not answer this very simple question, because Trump is guilty for inciting the insurrection of the Capitol building.

We all know the answer but Trump’s lawyer pretends he has no idea.

Yahoo News
Trump lawyer struggles to answer key questions from Republican senators

David Knowles·Editor
Fri, February 12, 2021, 11:28 PM

A lawyer representing Donald Trump at the former president's Senate impeachment trial struggled Friday to answer pointed questions asked by Republican senators.

"Exactly when did President Trump learn of the breach of the Capitol? What specific actions did he take to bring the rioting to an end, and when did he take them?" the Senate clerk said, reading the questions from moderate Sens. Susan Collins, R-Maine, and Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska. "Please be as detailed as possible."

In his answer, Trump lawyer Michael T. van der Veen made clear that he didn't know the answers, which he could have obtained simply by posing those questions to his client.

"The House managers have given us absolutely no evidence one way or the other onto that question. We're able to piece together a timeline, and it goes all the way back to Dec. 31. Jan. 2 there's a lot of interaction between the authorities and getting folks to have security beforehand on the day," van der Veen responded.

"We have a tweet at 2:38 [on Jan. 6], so it was certainly some time before then. With the rush to bring this impeachment, there's been absolutely no investigation into that. And that's the problem with this, uh, entire proceeding. The House managers did zero investigation, and the American people deserve a lot better than coming in here with no evidence, hearsay on top of hearsay on top of reports that are of hearsay. Due process is required here, and that was denied."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-lawyer ... 20288.html

[Kikapu]

I have never defended Putin’s dictatorship or others.

No, AFAIK you haven't. Which on this forum's pretty commendable. There are those who have though. In fact, it's no exaggeration to say some have been quite keen to rush in and provide excuses. I submit that - to take a contemporary example - anyone who's closely followed events over the past 6 months and can still claim - with a straight face - that Alexander Navalny is an insignificant and his experience has all just been a clever trans-continental anti-Russian conspiracy is either a mindlessly dedicated fan of Putin - the dictator - or a fucking idiot. Although, both do tend to go together. The early posts in "Russia denies" highlight their prevalence.

I liked the "tin pot" label. It puts people like Putin and Xi Jinping in the same box as Idi Amin, which they aren't at all of course. And what you said doesn't change the principal points I'm trying to make. The Trump furore is a relatively trivial matter if you consider the wider global picture and take into account who presents a potential threat to the likes of us. Or indeed who's been responsible for widespread death and suffering on the planet.

In years to come I imagine Trump will make an interesting academic study for those who'll try to rationalise the widespread, obsessive behaviour over the man. At one point you yourself were seriously suggesting the possibility of some sort of 1930's style Germanic coup to take over the US. I don't think even those with the wildest imagination would catergorise what happened on Jan 6th as that. The whole thing was farcical and just served to highlight what a knee-jerk prat Trump and some of his gullible supporters can be. Coup? Piss up in a brewery springs to mind.

I only have one electoral vote/voice in the countries I am a citizen off to try to make a difference if I choose to do so. I have zero leverage against countries which I am not a citizen of since I have zero vote or voice. We rely instead on our elected officials to do that for us.

Yes, in that regard you're an anomaly. I don't know of anybody else who's gotten to play an active electoral role in the matter, or indeed of any other US national posting on these events. There I include several other forums. That doesn't detract from my point though. On one forum there's a Trump thread which has run for 4 years now. It's 54 pages and about 1100 posts long. Mostly satirical cartoons or cut 'n' paste anti-Trump MSM extracts. On the same forum, over the same period, you would be hard pressed I think to fill up just one of those pages with posts about Putin/Xi Jinping/Rohani/Maduro/Kim Jong-un's activities. Excluding where they've included good ole Don that is. Don't you think - as a rational intelligent person - that's kind of odd and that it reinforces my "mass hysteria" point?

Trump's finished. The danger seems to me to be that continual vindictive action against the man will just make him a martyr to his devotees and inflame the obvious current polarisation in the US. Despite all the anti-Trump MSM claims the man still has millions of disgruntled supporters and If Biden screws up he could I suggest end up coming back with a vengeance. I think most of us would agree that's an undesirable.

My apologies for sort of hijacking this thread. I think I've demonstrated on many occasions my dislike of Donald Trump - as a human being. I do though firmly believe that the inordinate amount of vitriolic criticism he's attracted over the past 4 years has been totally out of proportion to his "body count". Frankly it's sometimes seemed that you've all gone fucking mad.

I don’t think you have hijacked the threat at all.

Once again, comparing western democracy politics to that of non democratic politics and their leaders are not on the same level playing field to say that, if one is making a stink on one, why not also on the other?

Well, speaking for myself and perhaps for few others, I can only make comments about situations in countries and people I know and care about than other countries situations and people I know very little about, but not necessarily careless about them. I wonder how many Russians, Chinese or North Koreans really care what is going on with Trump or the western politics, but I am sure they are far more in tune what is happening in their own backyard than what is happening in the backyard of distant countries.

As for my past remark about the 1930s in Germany which you had made a reference to above but without an explanation, I will connect the dots for you for my remarks as to what the contexts of that comment was all about where it concerned Trump and Hitler. It is actually very simple.

Both Hitler and Trump were elected democratically and then Hitler went on to become a dictator over time, and the rest is history in the most brutal way. After Trump lost the election in 2020, he tried to dismiss democratically held elections and did everything possible with some of his Party’s elected members to hang onto power illegally leading up to the attack on the Capitol building on January 6th. Am I saying Trump was as bad as Hitler as a dictator? No, of course not, however, should he have triumphed in his attempts to retain the presidency illegally, then he would and could have been walking in Hitler’s shoes, only several steps back in the beginning and then who knows what it would have lead to, in the same way the Germans did not know which direction Hitler was going to go once he no longer wanted democracy for Germany.

Just like Hitler was hating the Jews, Trump hated the Muslims from day one into his presidency by banning Muslims from certain countries coming to the US as well as his resentment of few Muslims in Congress. Hitler was appeased by his supporters as his went on to murder millions because they were different and Trump supporters too were appeasing him by his actions to steal the election and went as far as invading the Capitol building where some people died. Yes, the scales are very different than what has happened in Germany, but only because Hitler was in command much longer than Trump was. Thankfully, the history of the US will not have the same similarities as Germany because Trump did not have the 12 years Hitler had as the leader of the country, but the tell tail signs were there for worse things to come with Trump, his sons and his enablers in the government and the right-wing media.

Democracy is very fragile in the hands of those who are willing to destroy it for their personal gains if allowed to happen by a large numbers of citizens. Trump had 75 million supporters before the elections in 2020, which is very substantial to do a major damage to democracy as we know it if they wanted despite being less than 25% of the overall population of the US, which the other 75% preferred to remain a democracy. In the beginning the Nazi Party in Germany were not the majority either, but without checks and balances, it became the majority under Hitler’s dictatorship. Some food for thought.

[Paphitis]

Well it looks like Trump’s acquit all is assured. The GOP have the numbers and will stop the fraud in its tracks.

Better luck next time fellas! We will see you at the next elections - Trump 2024! MAGA!

[Paphitis]

Even if half of what you say was true, Trump would still be the president today, no?

It is true and do not forget for a second that his base is extremely strong with 80,000,000 votes. If Biden disappoints which I’m almost certain he will and isn’t off to a good start, you can add another 10 million democrat voters in the Trump/GOP column.

So no, he has all of you worried and biting your nails. Hence why you want to impeach him in a massive miscarriage of procedure.

Trump does not have 80m base. His criminal base were at the Capitol. The rest are Conservatives and I doubt many of them want Trump back or if the Republican Party will even survive after this impeachment. I can see few more Red States turning Blue as a result of Trump not being convicted and more Republican senators and representatives lose their seats from now to 2024 because the voters will be reminded over and over again how close they came to lose the Republic under Trump of the Capitol siege by his criminals. This is going to drive millions more Americans to vote for Democrats for saving the Union. The Banana Republican Party will be known as the supporter of the insurrectionist Trump. Bad move.

Trump said “remember this date forever”. Yes, the Americans will.

Trump is no Messiah or a Prophet. He is just a another Dictator wannabe.

The people at Capitol Hil were fewer than a thousand. That isn’t his base.

His base are normal people who voted for him for a better America and a brighter future in issues that actually hold traction such as Law and Order, Employment, Cost of Living and taxation.

Law abiding people and hard working people. Some people who are also impoverished or out of work. That’s his base.

I know many Americans of Greek and Cypriot background who couldn’t in all consciousness vote anything other than Trump on account of them being devout Orthodox. So if Trump attracts this demographic he attracts other Christians too who would vote for him purely for the fact they believe a vote for Biden is a vote for the Devil on account of the Abortion issue alone.

All well meaning people.

You can slander and clasp at straws all you like. But soon the impeachment will be stopped dead in its tracks.

Well, on “Law & Order”, that is one stroke against Trump already as he has defied Law & Order and now has blood on his hands in what he incited at the Capitol.

Abortion is the Law of the Land. Democratic Party is not for abortion, but rather, for Pro Choice. There is a difference.

The impeachment has served it’s purpose and a conviction is not needed at the senate to have justice, because the jury for conviction of Trump is the senate of 100 members, but the real jury the case is being put to, is to the jury of 330 million Americans.

For one, the constitutionality of whether a President who is no longer in office can be tried or not has been one more time has been confirmed, which is a big “YES”, and doing so, Trump has been shown to the world what cunt he really has been and historians and history will judge him very harshly and very deservedly. No president has ever been convicted who has been impeached, but history is not looking well on their side.

Trump has been impeached twice with blood on his hands. History will condemn him the most of all other impeached presidents. Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon now look like choirboys in comparison.

The 330 million can see it is fraud. And when senators come forth one by one and say that they can’t be a party to this kangaroo court, the victory will be Trump’s.

Because Trump had not defied any laws or had any involvement with Capitol Hill.

There were 30,000 peaceful protestors that day and fewer than 1000 descended into lawlessness.

The Democrats do not have the credibility Trump has had when it comes to law and order or the credibility on real issues affecting the people.

And with regards to pro choice. A Pedophile can’t help themselves when they molest a child. It’s pro choice you say. Again harming a child just like abortion harms, no murders an unborn child.

This is why there are probably millions of Christians in America, many of them Orthodox too, of which some are Greek and Cypriots, who believe voting for Biden is voting for the devil because of it. Everyone is entitled to cast their vote how they see fit and if some people have such Christian convictions that lead them to vote Trunp because he is anti late term abortion and more in line with Christian values then so be it.

But why stop at Christians. There are many devout Muslims in America who have the same beliefs and as a result, voted for Trump.

But why stop with Christians and Muslims? There are 25 million Jews in America who probably did the same thing.

We are talking about people who fast and prey every day. I can’t knock them whether they are Christians, Hews or Muslims and feel the way they do. But hardly criminals. Just very pious and that is Trump’s base. Not to mention the poor and deplorables.

Some racist huh!

The damage will be done when reality sets in for the populace and they realise again they have an in effective retread dud POTUS. The only way any damage comes to Trump is if Biden somehow proves not to be a dud for once in issues that actually affect 99% of people, not on issues where some guys want to chop their Willy off or wear a skirt or if someone wants to self identify as a monkey.

Just for what reason(s) did these 30,000 Trump supporters came to DC from across the country to demonstrate for what exactly?

There was nothing special happening on this day that required a demonstration, was there?

They all came because trump told them to come, no?

So why did they come with weapons of all sorts.

It wasn’t Trump’s birthday or wedding anniversary.

Trump wasn’t inaugurated.

Oh, I remember, Trump asked them to come to DC to “stop the steal” as it was his last chance to stop the counting of the Electoral College vote by VP Pence, so his criminal gang was sent by Trump to go and fight like hell because Pence was not helping him, so his brain dead supporters came to stop the count of the ECV and hang Pence for treason. These dumb fuckers thought they were the Minutemen from Paul Revere days in the 1775 era and that they were going to take part in a revolution and give the election to Trump and make him a Caesar of sorts and that they would be remembered in history as patriots. Talk about being fucked in the head these stupid fuckers.

The police should have shot all those coming into the Capitol to stop them. There will be investigation on that too as to why the police were not prepared and did not use deadly force. I will not be surprised that Trump arranged it all, because he did not send help to the Capitol during the invasion there while watching it live on TV. What a cunt.

So, the Pro Life Republican Party are happy to execute people, allow homelessness, hunger, poverty and deny the needy medical coverage.

Denying abortion only hurts the very poor, and with more unwanted kids, they sink even deeper into more poverty, which then from desperation comes drug use and prostitution with street gangs fighting turf wars since education and steady home becomes a distant mirage. Then we blame the victims with their destitute dire situations created by the righteous societies. Great!

Those who are well off, Republicans and Democrats can travel and get an abortion in another country like Canada should the USA become illegal, but the poor cannot, but making sure the poor remain poor so that they do not vote has been one of the Republicans main aims as they constantly create roadblocks to stop the blacks and Hispanics from voting by “Gerrymandering” by manipulating boundaries of districts against the minorities.

Did he now?

I think you are clasping at straws again.

Regardless, it doesn’t matter anymore. The attempt to impeach has failed again. Trump will be cleared.

[Paphitis]

I always regarded Trump as a temporary aberration. I was right. What surprised me throughout his term though was the enormous fuss the man attracted. Every faux pas/gaffe/idiotic remark scathingly and repeatedly (ad nauseam sometimes) commented upon. Every Tweet attracting reams of satirical contempt. Literally thousands of Trump posts on social media sites. It’s struck me, given the man’s actual sins, as having been an astonishing display of mass hysteria. Perhaps epitomised in a small way above by your “blood on his hands”.

Across the world our old friend Vladimir sits smiling from behind his Kremlin desk, having precipitated the violent death of over 10000 Ukrainians, linked to Russia’s Crimean intervention. In China, under Xi Jinping, who like Putin is another tyrant that’s changed his country’s constitution enabling him to be leader for life (aka a dictator) there’s credible evidence of genocidal actions, both cultural and physical, against the Chinese Muslim minority. Moreover, people in China are still being executed, in some cases for what we in the West would regard as trivial offenses, at the rate of nearly 2500 a year - if you believe the CCP’s figures that is.

There’s much more bloodshed and suffering of course, under umpteen despotic regimes around the globe. But, beyond perhaps a passing “Yes, terrible situation but what can we do?” (When the useful idiots aren’t actually supporting it that is) barely a murmur. Yet, with mouth-frothing condemnation, social media en masse seems to convulse daily over Trump having “blood on his hands”. What a strange phenomena.

You cannot compare your run of the mill tin pot dictators with the western democracies surely, at least not until Trump came along and wanted to become just like them in one form or the other. When I became a naturalized citizen of the United States I too gave my allegiance to the US flag and the constitution, therefore, I have the right to characterize Trump in the way he has earned it by him, as the President of the United States willfully abusing his power to dismiss the Democratic elections and the Constitution for his own personal gains by inciting violence where people had died, then yes, he is a criminal in the highest order with blood on his hands.

Oh yes! He we go again. Trump the dictator. Trump the racist. Trump the NAZI. Trump the Pootin Ji Punp despot.

The Democrats have lost the plot!

[Kikapu]

Regardless, it doesn’t matter anymore. The attempt to impeach has failed again. Trump will be cleared.

Paphitis, you need to learn the difference between an Impeachment and a conviction/acquittal.

Trump has been Impeached twice, done and dusted and cannot be cancelled.

Conviction or acquittal is the second stage of Impeachment after a trial.

Acquittal does not negate/nullify Impeachment.

I just heard that now witnesses will be called, therefore, the trial continues.

[Kikapu]

Well it looks like Trump’s acquit all is assured. The GOP have the numbers and will stop the fraud in its tracks.

Better luck next time fellas! We will see you at the next elections - Trump 2024! MAGA!

Err, not so fast!

[miltiades]

Well it looks like Trump’s acquit all is assured. The GOP have the numbers and will stop the fraud in its tracks.

Better luck next time fellas! We will see you at the next elections - Trump 2024! MAGA!

You are an idiot !!