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Countdown to British Independence Day

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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Londonrake » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:21 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Opinion
Foreign policy
Global Britain’ is willing to trade away everything. Including scruples

Simon Tisdall
The UK’s new deal with Turkey ignores appalling human rights abuses and should have been scrutinised by parliament
Sun 3 Jan 2021 07.00 GMT

The UK’s new trade agreement with Turkey, signed last week, ignores the Turkish government’s continuing human rights abuses, boosts its dangerous president, and undermines ministerial pledges that “global Britain” will uphold international laws and values. The deal took effect on 1 January without even rudimentary parliamentary scrutiny. Here, stripped of lies and bombast, is the dawning reality of Boris Johnson’s scruple-free post-Brexit world.

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Turkey’s “strongman” leader, is pleased as punch. He’s the new, biggest fan of Britain’s international trade secretary, Liz Truss, whose shabby work this is. Erdoğan hailed the deal as the start of a “new era” and a landmark for Turkey. After years of disastrous economic mismanagement and fierce rows with the US and EU over Turkish policy towards Russia, Syria, Libya, Greece and Cyprus, Erdoğan badly needed a win. Hapless Truss delivered.

The fact that Johnson used the spectre of Turkish migrants to frighten Leave voters in 2016 appears forgotten now. His government has created a favourable bilateral trade framework, and promised bespoke “upgrades”, to a leader who frequently mocks the EU and faces possible European trade sanctions. How does that square with Johnson’s vow to be “the best friend and ally the EU could have”? The level playing field is already tipping. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... EfEaRECWUk


Left wing newspaper article written by a closet Trot.

Germany's trade (and ties) with Turkey far exceeds that of the UK. Russia's trading is much higher even than theirs. Talk of Turkish migrants flooding across Europe had about as much effect on my decision making as the NHS bus and pretty much everybody else's I should think.
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby RichardB » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:23 pm

Get Real! wrote:I predict Britain will get lovey-dovey with Turkey, and they’ll also be forced to be nicer to Russia too.

Basically, any significant non-EU potential trading partner/market, they’ll start sucking up to...


Mate it's already done last week


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ith-turkey
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Kikapu » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:27 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Opinion
Foreign policy
Global Britain’ is willing to trade away everything. Including scruples

Simon Tisdall
The UK’s new deal with Turkey ignores appalling human rights abuses and should have been scrutinised by parliament
Sun 3 Jan 2021 07.00 GMT

The UK’s new trade agreement with Turkey, signed last week, ignores the Turkish government’s continuing human rights abuses, boosts its dangerous president, and undermines ministerial pledges that “global Britain” will uphold international laws and values. The deal took effect on 1 January without even rudimentary parliamentary scrutiny. Here, stripped of lies and bombast, is the dawning reality of Boris Johnson’s scruple-free post-Brexit world.

Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Turkey’s “strongman” leader, is pleased as punch. He’s the new, biggest fan of Britain’s international trade secretary, Liz Truss, whose shabby work this is. Erdoğan hailed the deal as the start of a “new era” and a landmark for Turkey. After years of disastrous economic mismanagement and fierce rows with the US and EU over Turkish policy towards Russia, Syria, Libya, Greece and Cyprus, Erdoğan badly needed a win. Hapless Truss delivered.

The fact that Johnson used the spectre of Turkish migrants to frighten Leave voters in 2016 appears forgotten now. His government has created a favourable bilateral trade framework, and promised bespoke “upgrades”, to a leader who frequently mocks the EU and faces possible European trade sanctions. How does that square with Johnson’s vow to be “the best friend and ally the EU could have”? The level playing field is already tipping. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... EfEaRECWUk


Left wing newspaper article written by a closet Trot.

Germany's trade (and ties) with Turkey far exceeds that of the UK. Russia's trading is much higher even than theirs. Talk of Turkish migrants flooding across Europe had about as much effect on my decision making as the NHS bus and pretty much everybody else's I should think.


Yes but, not every Brit is as informed as you, LR. :wink:
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Londonrake » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:34 pm

Kikapu wrote:Yes but, not every Brit is as informed as you, LR. :wink:


I'm honoured. I would have thought you'd at least have said - misinformed. :lol: :wink:
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Kikapu » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:42 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:No one wants to see the UK go down just because the remainders lost the battle, but perhaps not necessarily the war. Whichever way things go from now on, it is not the remainders fault one way or the other. It won’t even be the fault of majority of the leavers, because the government were never up front with the people, therefore, anything that goes wrong after Brexit, you bet your bottom dollar that those responsible for U.K’s downfall (should it happen) must be held accountable. Anyone buying into Boris’s Jubilation that the UK is now ready to be all it can be and can stretch her legs after 40+ years of being kept on ball and chain by the EU, must be sleep walking and they will too need to hear about it.

Patriotism is not about doing everything our government tells us to do without question. As a matter of fact, it is the complete opposite. If things goes wrong, I will be the first to point fingers at every twist and turn because for the last 40+ years U.K. being in the EU has served the UKs interests well economically and politically, and when some right wing nutcases risk the livelihood of many, then yes, I will crap all over them as it happens and not going to wait 5 years to see how things come out. There was nothing broken by the UK being in the EU, but if it breaks now, look out Boris, Farage and gang. :evil:


I disagree. I've been reading quite a few threads here and there and whilst I'm not talking about all Remainers, or pointing a finger, there are certainly some who clearly want their view to be vindicated by disaster. I hope they're not holding their breath.

Is it the Remainers fault? I believe to a considerable extent that the way things unfolded was down to their efforts. Had the result of the referendum been accepted (as I believe it would if it had been the reverse - certainly anyway by me) and the country moved on in a unified and coherent way then things I suspect would have worked out much better. What happened though? For over 4 years we had a lot of people in Parliament who treated the EU referendum with undisguised contempt and worked together to try and collectively overturn it. All sorts of schemes were attempted. The Labour party lied in their 2017 election manifesto, promising to honour the result and then betraying its voters. As a result they're in the wilderness, although still it seems arrogantly refusing to acknowledge the cause. People like Bercow, Clarke, Benn, Soubary, Grieve and many more in the House worked collectively to undermine the referendum, as did the unelected House of Lords. We witnessed the likes of Blair and Hesletine routinely jetting back and forth between London and Brussels in order to "advise" the EU Commission on how it could effectively do the same thing. Combined, giving ongoing grist to the EU mill. Why bother to negotiate seriously when all that's working in your favour. So, yes, IMHO Remainers have a lot to answer for.

The comforting idea that Boris Johnson (or Farage) alone was responsible for Brexit's absurd. There were 4 major electoral events between June 2016 and last December. The people of the UK voted in all of them to leave the EU. They didn't do that because of a single politician or "some right wing nutters". There was a 6 month campaign - heavily loaded on the Remain side - before the referendum. Afterwards, 4 years of digesting daily news about the various struggles. Perhaps next to Covid the people of the UK have never been so well informed on a subject. Still though, even nowadays, I'm reading crap saying the vote was all the result of a few words on the side of a bus.

The fact is we've left the EU - fully. Any ideas of us going back cap-in-hand are the fantasy of those who don't have a clue concerning the people they're talking about. So, apart from some sort of self gratification thing, I wonder, what's the point of continually carping? What is there to be achieved?

No disrespect meant. I hope you'll believe that. However, I think you and I have entirely different perspectives when it comes to patriotic sentiment about the UK.


My above post is meant to be for post Brexit and not pre, going back 4+years to achieve it after the referendum. Boris, Farage and the Gang now own Brexit along with those who has voted for it, regardless whether the supporters understood the arguments for or against Brexit.
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Londonrake » Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:42 pm

Kikapu wrote:My above post is meant to be for post Brexit and not pre, going back 4+years to achieve it after the referendum. Boris, Farage and the Gang now own Brexit along with those who has voted for it, regardless whether the supporters understood the arguments for or against Brexit.


Yes, those who voted for it "own" Brexit. That's the way the system's supposed to work.

I understood the arguments - from 40 years of experience - as did all the (considerable number of) people I know who also voted for it. Not a single one of them the moronic stereotype so beloved of many Remainers and none of whom failed to get pretty pissed off with how their historic mandate was contemptuously treated by a lot of politicians. Most of those I'm glad to say having now been kicked out of parliament and who seem to make a living by pathetically whinging in whichever newspaper or TV channel occasionally comes their way. Sterile conjecture. Justice and democracy served.
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Paphitis » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:10 pm

Get Real! wrote:I predict Britain will get lovey-dovey with Turkey, and they’ll also be forced to be nicer to Russia too.

Basically, any significant non-EU potential trading partner/market, they’ll start sucking up to...


Can you blame them?

Business is business. If it’s ok for Germany to build their cars in Turkey, then why shouldn’t UK trade with Turkey?

Russia might be a stretch though. However, they will become a significant trade partner over time.
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Paphitis » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:15 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Paphitis' never ending fanfare.
So in which areas is the UK more competitive to benefit from ANY free trade agreement with ANY country, or even the CANZ? BoJo knew very well how to blind the British consumers with arguments like they are going to have much cheaper and better beef from Australia, question is who is going to feed the British farmers who will go out of bussiness.
At best the heavily advertised "new trade deals" will be a mild suicide to whatever's left of the British industry.


Can Cyprus sign a FTD with a country that isn’t a member of the EU? It can but it must be approved by the EU.

Britain however needs no such approval. They can sign a FTD with Australia, Canada, US, Chy-na, or India if they do wish.

Plus, they have the added benefit of not having any interference into their own affairs. In other words, they are not dependent on the EU, ECB or the other global entity that will serve its interests.

Pyro, the Brits embarrassed the EU. After so many years of ridicule and Warfare, they got their way and won.

That alone is worth a lot more than any amount of money.

Plus they can form their own FTD bloc and there is nothing the EU can do about it - for instance, they could form their own block known as CANZUK.


Why are you avoiding the question?


I answered the question.

You seem to think that being a member of the EU has been a good thing.

My question to you. What has Cyprus gained by being a member economically? Nothing right!

I seem to recall a strong Cyprus economically before it joined the Eurozone, and since joining a steady decline into the abyss. Remember the Banking collapse? Cyprus had its hands tied behind its back and couldn’t do a thing.

Now imagine a Banking collapse in the UK abd the Liberty the British Central Bank has to print its own currency.

The only gain for Cyprus is political. I can understand wanting to be in the EU purely for political gain in Cyprus’ case but don’t pretend it’s actually been great for the economy.

You asked me to give you 1 benefit of the UK leaving and I gave you 2. The UK is able to explore international markets without any of the hindrances the EU offers. Abd at the same time, they still have Free Trade with the EU. So they get their cake and eat too.
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Paphitis » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:28 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:No one wants to see the UK go down just because the remainders lost the battle, but perhaps not necessarily the war. Whichever way things go from now on, it is not the remainders fault one way or the other. It won’t even be the fault of majority of the leavers, because the government were never up front with the people, therefore, anything that goes wrong after Brexit, you bet your bottom dollar that those responsible for U.K’s downfall (should it happen) must be held accountable. Anyone buying into Boris’s Jubilation that the UK is now ready to be all it can be and can stretch her legs after 40+ years of being kept on ball and chain by the EU, must be sleep walking and they will too need to hear about it.

Patriotism is not about doing everything our government tells us to do without question. As a matter of fact, it is the complete opposite. If things goes wrong, I will be the first to point fingers at every twist and turn because for the last 40+ years U.K. being in the EU has served the UKs interests well economically and politically, and when some right wing nutcases risk the livelihood of many, then yes, I will crap all over them as it happens and not going to wait 5 years to see how things come out. There was nothing broken by the UK being in the EU, but if it breaks now, look out Boris, Farage and gang. :evil:


I disagree. I've been reading quite a few threads here and there and whilst I'm not talking about all Remainers, or pointing a finger, there are certainly some who clearly want their view to be vindicated by disaster. I hope they're not holding their breath.

Is it the Remainers fault? I believe to a considerable extent that the way things unfolded was down to their efforts. Had the result of the referendum been accepted (as I believe it would if it had been the reverse - certainly anyway by me) and the country moved on in a unified and coherent way then things I suspect would have worked out much better. What happened though? For over 4 years we had a lot of people in Parliament who treated the EU referendum with undisguised contempt and worked together to try and collectively overturn it. All sorts of schemes were attempted. The Labour party lied in their 2017 election manifesto, promising to honour the result and then betraying its voters. As a result they're in the wilderness, although still it seems arrogantly refusing to acknowledge the cause. People like Bercow, Clarke, Benn, Soubary, Grieve and many more in the House worked collectively to undermine the referendum, as did the unelected House of Lords. We witnessed the likes of Blair and Hesletine routinely jetting back and forth between London and Brussels in order to "advise" the EU Commission on how it could effectively do the same thing. Combined, giving ongoing grist to the EU mill. Why bother to negotiate seriously when all that's working in your favour. So, yes, IMHO Remainers have a lot to answer for.

The comforting idea that Boris Johnson (or Farage) alone was responsible for Brexit's absurd. There were 4 major electoral events between June 2016 and last December. The people of the UK voted in all of them to leave the EU. They didn't do that because of a single politician or "some right wing nutters". There was a 6 month campaign - heavily loaded on the Remain side - before the referendum. Afterwards, 4 years of digesting daily news about the various struggles. Perhaps next to Covid the people of the UK have never been so well informed on a subject. Still though, even nowadays, I'm reading crap saying the vote was all the result of a few words on the side of a bus.

The fact is we've left the EU - fully. Any ideas of us going back cap-in-hand are the fantasy of those who don't have a clue concerning the people they're talking about. So, apart from some sort of self gratification thing, I wonder, what's the point of continually carping? What is there to be achieved?

No disrespect meant. I hope you'll believe that. However, I think you and I have entirely different perspectives when it comes to patriotic sentiment about the UK.


I got to agree with all of this 100% but I’ll like to zero in on one aspect.

There is no doubt in my mind many here want to see Britain fail. This is a case of even cutting their own nose to spite their face. A successful Britain gives the other 27 seeing other options available to them. That should they leave the EU there will be life afterwards.

But what I want to zero in on is the British People. They have demonstrated quite considerable zeal and backbone. They are quite obviously very particular about their sovereignty and self sustainability. Quite confident in their beliefs for their country. I can only applaud them for it and wish them all the best.
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Re: Countdown to British Independence Day

Postby Get Real! » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:23 am

RichardB wrote:
Get Real! wrote:I predict Britain will get lovey-dovey with Turkey, and they’ll also be forced to be nicer to Russia too.

Basically, any significant non-EU potential trading partner/market, they’ll start sucking up to...


Mate it's already done last week


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ith-turkey

Wow... that's fast! :)
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