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Ukrainian Issue

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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:25 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...what comes to mind is the "Cyprus solution", as Putin once suggested his Georgian foray could be described.

The Ukraine was not Russian before it was won by the Ottomans, and lost not so long ago, some 400 years. They are a People as History clearly indicates.

...and they were invaded most recently because of the imperialistic intentions of its much larger neighbour ("retaking" what's "theirs"); Universal Principles and such values set aside.

Such men as Putin, Erdogan, Trump and Xi question Humanity. They challenge, the rest of us, our commitment toward defending what such a notion means by defining Freedom's end, where their's begins.


Trump never invaded any country. He was probably the most anti polemic POTUS in history. The first POTUS to cross the border between South Korea and North Korea to meet with North Korea’s Supreme Leader and shake hands.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:30 pm

Lordo wrote:They do seem to suffer from the same virus as Cytpruis thoigh where there are two communitiwes there and hence Amercia and Russia can explot the situation. That Russia is in the mix is understandable as the second community are Russian speakers but what is unforgivable is why the Yanks are putting their ore in. As if they would have allowed Cuba to become member of the warsaw pact to let in Russian missles.

But than again there is the asshole who is totally oblivious of the real situation chrning out the western propaganda as if any county in the world is free.

Try to leave the sphere of your political pimp and see what happens to you.


Cuba was a member of Warsaw Pact. Just not officially.

A bit like Australia and it’s associate membership of NATO. It’s practically the same as any other NATO member. That’s the reality.

Russia could place missiles and troops in Cuba and there is nothing the US could really do.

The Missile Crisis was never about that. It was about the deployment of Nuclear Missiles.

Ukraine is no different to Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and many others voting with their feet and joining NATO.

Yes all these countries are free. They made their decisions and voted with their feet. And they are even emerging markets now as well. Gone are the days where a loaf of bread would cost a weekly wage. People are living better and more free unlike the past under the Soviet Union.

No one is forced to join NATO or the EU. Otherwise the Americans would have forced Cyprus to join NATO. Well, actually the Americans did try. Truth be said. They sponsored the 1974 Coup and Cyprus is paying for that even today. So yes, there is some interference. So yes you can point to individual cases. Our non alignment was the big mistake.

What the Americans could not stomach is having Cyprus as a potential thorn in the Med so close to one of its biggest Naval Battle Groups, just south of Turkey and so close to Israel. What’s mind boggling is how we never assessed the situation properly at the time. You would have thought it was obvious.

But none of that changes the facts pertaining to Ukraine’s current circumstances. Is Ukraine a free sovereign country? Yes it is. As such, do they have the right to join EU and NATO? Yes they do. Is Ukraine then able to deploy NATO Air Defence? Probably yes. Does Russia have the right to invade Ukraine? Hell no. Such a thing would be illegal.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:47 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Lordo wrote:They do seem to suffer from the same virus as Cytpruis thoigh where there are two communitiwes there and hence Amercia and Russia can explot the situation. That Russia is in the mix is understandable as the second community are Russian speakers but what is unforgivable is why the Yanks are putting their ore in. As if they would have allowed Cuba to become member of the warsaw pact to let in Russian missles.

But than again there is the asshole who is totally oblivious of the real situation chrning out the western propaganda as if any county in the world is free.

Try to leave the sphere of your political pimp and see what happens to you.


Cuba was a member of Warsaw Pact. Just not officially.

A bit like Australia and it’s associate membership of NATO. It’s practically the same as any other NATO member. That’s the reality.

Russia could place missiles and troops in Cuba and there is nothing the US could really do.

The Missile Crisis was never about that. It was about the deployment of Nuclear Missiles.

Ukraine is no different to Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and many others voting with their feet and joining NATO.

Yes all these countries are free. They made their decisions and voted with their feet. And they are even emerging markets now as well. Gone are the days where a loaf of bread would cost a weekly wage. People are living better and more free unlike the past under the Soviet Union.

No one is forced to join NATO or the EU. Otherwise the Americans would have forced Cyprus to join NATO. Well, actually the Americans did try. Truth be said. They sponsored the 1974 Coup and Cyprus is paying for that even today. So yes, there is some interference. So yes you can point to individual cases. Our non alignment was the big mistake.

What the Americans could not stomach is having Cyprus as a potential thorn in the Med so close to one of its biggest Naval Battle Groups, just south of Turkey and so close to Israel. What’s mind boggling is how we never assessed the situation properly at the time. You would have thought it was obvious.

But none of that changes the facts pertaining to Ukraine’s current circumstances. Is Ukraine a free sovereign country? Yes it is. As such, do they have the right to join EU and NATO? Yes they do. Is Ukraine then able to deploy NATO Air Defence? Probably yes. Does Russia have the right to invade Ukraine? Hell no. Such a thing would be illegal.

Back to screwing kangoroos in the out back for you me ol cobber.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:48 pm

It's clear to me that Russia doesn't want NATO at it's doorstep.
On the NW they have the Scandinavians which are neutral. Then at the NNW they have Latvia and Estonia who already joined Nato hence the Russians already have Nato at their borders (by about 350Km)
On the East there are 2 huge countries Belarus (670 Km border) and Ukraine (1900 Km border!!).
The whole issue is how Russia perceives her own safety. Just like Turkey who imposed a safety buffer zone in Syria, Russia wants to have a safety zone of at least one country between her borders and Nato.

The Ukranians are stupid if the think Russia is ever going to let them join Nato. They most probably are going to pay a huge price for their stupidity. Nato is all about creating real or imaginary enemies, for the purpose of the big sharks among Nato selling weapons to the rest. Problem is the big sharks started cheating on each other as it happened recently with the French submarines contract with Australia.
Last edited by Pyrpolizer on Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby miltiades » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:06 pm

Russia is right in not wishing NATO forces at its borders. Enough hypocrisy from the West. There are more than enough NATO member nations allready. When Turkey invaded Cyprus NATO.remained inactive, yet a tiny island was invaded by a NATO country. I would support Russian concerns regardless of being a pro West guy all my life.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:05 pm

The idea that Any country can do as they wish is laughable. Cuba was not allow Russian missiles and nor can any other American country today.
The real culprit here is the yanks who encouraged the Ukrainians to ask to join knowing it will cause a problem, The deaths that are about to occur are all caused by the yanks.

Turkish intervention is another matter. Prior to that there was a Greek Invasion that overthrew the elected President and installed a puppet regime. Makarios asked for help in the UN and installing a known murderer as President is simply inviting Turkey to intervene. But of course they actually believed their own myths that Turkey either will not be able to intervene or will not be allowed to.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:16 pm

Russia has 120,000+ troops out of their garrisons, some from as far away as Siberia, all effectively on field deployment during an East European winter. The logistical problems that entails are horrendous. Add to that, March will probably bring a thaw and for armour and towed artillery turn the ground into a WW1 quagmire.

Other strategic factors have combined to make this a perfect, but probably short-lived (once in a lifetime) opportunity. Time isn't on the Russian side.

There is as well the von Moltke factor "No plan survives first contact with the enemy".

Putin will have to act soon......................... or find some way to disengage without loosing face. Given all that's happened, the latter seems unlikely to me.

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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:30 pm

Germany was among the first who smelled what Nato was all about a long time ago. You wouldn't expect anything less from the brain tank of Europe. When Trump was complaining that "allies" weren't contributing to Nato as much as they should, he was actually referring to Germany. Yet contrary to Germany who was making certain profit from been in Nato and selling weapons, the other "Germans " in Austria had no reason to ever join, hence they never did.
Nato keeps one more specific American secret. Controlling the world's oil resources and forcing the world to buy-sell oil in US$. This allows them to spend as much as they like in stupid wars, while piling trillions upon trillions of dept in meaningless US$, broadcasting to the world a fictitious healthy economy.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:19 am

...Ukraine had atomic weapons, remember?

It is I believe still a very important intelligence gatherer, and in its heyday it rivaled the Bulgarians having this power, happy to do dirty work for the Communist Party (around the world). The country was not a basket case economically and not as broken from corruption, it had discipline (at least), the capacity to demonstrate, in that regard, integrity. The Ukraine since the fall of Communism has not demonstrated itself to be so reliable, in particular the fiasco(s) related to pipelines, and their upkeep, Neither a good client for gas, or a good partner in its delivery other-where.

...Putin surely remembers, those good ol' days.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:43 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...Ukraine had atomic weapons, remember?

It is I believe still a very important intelligence gatherer, and in its heyday it rivaled the Bulgarians having this power, happy to do dirty work for the Communist Party (around the world). The country was not a basket case economically and not as broken from corruption, it had discipline (at least), the capacity to demonstrate, in that regard, integrity. The Ukraine since the fall of Communism has not demonstrated itself to be so reliable, in particular the fiasco(s) related to pipelines, and their upkeep, Neither a good client for gas, or a good partner in its delivery other-where.

...Putin surely remembers, those good ol' days.


Indeed it ranked 3rd in nuclear warheads. But look at the hypocrisy of both the Russians and Nato in letting it become an independent non - nuclear state, with guarantees for it's security. In reality it has to built it's own security, so all it's left is who will be selling them weapons. It's always the same old story... :wink:
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