Cyprus-Forum.com

[Southerner]

FYI I agreed with the coilition intervention in Iraq I think Sadaam Hussein was a meglomanic despot who needed to be deposed But it is blatantly obvious that despite all the planning that went into the invasion no-one seemed to have done any planning for the aftermath.

I am shocked that you saw fit for the US to intervene militarily in Iraq just because its leader was a "megalomanic despot"!!!

You also talk about "planning for the aftermath" like it's some sort of a project! What kind of "planning for the aftermath" where you expecting by the perpetrators after an entire nation is bombed to kingdom come???

I sometimes wonder which planet some of you posters come from...

Which part of an entire nation was bombed to kigdom come? so tell me when did all the people that are being killed every day by the terrorists arrive in Iraq? the Insurgents have killed more of their own Muslim people than the coalition came anywhere near to killing! You make stupid naive remarks and expect sensible answers

[Eliko]

"The savage loves his native shores", this well known saying sums up nicely the meaning of 'Patriotism', every person has a place of origin and most regard that place as their homeland.

On this forum there are many who leap to the defence of their country at the merest slight, they display all the characteristics of what one would expect of a patriot and they should be commended for that.

It is an honourable thing to be patriotic, it is also a right and a duty to be so, BUT, there are times when it becomes difficult.

I think we are now living in one of those difficult times, there is much conflict between many members (even within the confines of this small forum) and it grieves me to observe it.

The whole world seems to be in turmoil as we members exchange our views on various topics, harsh words and insults are tossed into most of the discussions and they become arguments due to those facts.

The end result is predictable,nothing will be solved, nothing will be learned and nothing will be gained by any of the participants.

Such a situation need not be the norm if we adopt a different approach to our exchanges, it is not difficult and is within the reach of us all.

First, let us accept that for as much as WE may be patriotic, OTHERS are as entitled to their own patriotic feelings, in accepting that small fact, we may begin to understand the differences that exist between us all.

There is little point in constantly referring to the words and agreements made between politicians when we know that they thrive on the very disharmony they create, repeating the logic of those who have led us into confusion, will not increase our knowledge, it will slowly destroy us.

If I utter the words of a wise man, that does not make me wise, it should make me strive for wisdom also for I have recognized it in him.

The current situation in the Middle East is a disgrace to the nations that are involved in it, we all know that, we all should condemn it, it will solve nothing and will end in shame.

We, as members of this forum, should not allow the hatreds apparent in those conflicts, to permeate our discussions here, we all know of the horrors resulting from the actions of suicide bombers and extremists, let us debate the origins of these actions, let us discover WHY these actions have become an everyday event, let us uncover the reasons for all this hatred, if we can do that, we may be able to understand our own actions and the actions of others, those who are different to ourselves.

The above post seems to have attracted a great deal of negativity from members and I must confess that I am somewhat bewildered since the fundamentals are so simple.

The post contains 12 paragraphs, each of these may be viewed as a question, statement of fact, or, opinion.

If you read them one by one, you may agree or disagree depending on your own perception.

Overall, I cannot understand how anyone can respond so negatively as there must be something within those paragraphs which rings true, UNLESS, you have become so blinded by the lies and deceit of politicians and their ilk that you are unable to think for yourselves.

Do you really imagine that by constantly presenting the same old responses to ALL matters concerning the inhuman unlawful attack on an innocent nation, you will justify it?, you bloody fools, that is exactly what your political leaders want you to do, you are putty in their hands whilst you are so transfixed.

Wake up for God's sake, your hatreds are obliterating your chances of seeing reason, I feel ashamed for you.................

Both of the above posts are written in simple enough language, why not READ them and THINK about them ?.

[miltiades]

FYI I agreed with the coilition intervention in Iraq I think Sadaam Hussein was a meglomanic despot who needed to be deposed But it is blatantly obvious that despite all the planning that went into the invasion no-one seemed to have done any planning for the aftermath.

I am shocked that you saw fit for the US to intervene militarily in Iraq just because its leader was a "megalomaniac despot"!!!

I can think of two dozen other countries with leaders that fit this description and even worse, not excluding the US itself!

You also talk about "planning for the aftermath" like it's some sort of a project! What kind of "planning for the aftermath" where you expecting by the perpetrators after an entire nation is bombed to kingdom come???

Perhaps a rubble collection service? Maybe a rotting body disposal system? How about an orphan cleansing team?

I sometimes wonder which planet some of you posters come from...

Oh dear here you go again describing isn't exactly your strength if all you can say about Sadam is "megalomaniac despot " . Well let me translate these two descriptions into layman's language.
This brutal dictator who wiped out almost 200 thousand of his own people , this ruthless oppressor who would personally murder any one that dared to even criticize him , this blood thirsty barbarous savage who killed his own son in law and took from his grandchildren their daddy , is to you a mere " megalomaniac despot . "

Let us look at your preposterous assumption that the entire nation was bombed to "kingdom come" !!!! Don't be so bloody narrow minded , the insurgents that are daily doing the killing are not AMERICANS ARE NOT BRITISH, they are Arabs . They kill their own people that they regard as lower than the infidels , they detonate themselves on buses , in markets , in mosques , at job centres , at funeral processions and anywhere else where they can inflict maximum death and destruction .They revered by their followers as martyrs , no doubt you too as well as the other educated non entity share this obnoxious view. You GR , have never ever uttered one word of disapproval of the daily massacres that are committed by insurgents against the people of Iraq . The West underestimated the stupidity of these dedicated arseholes and their macabre ideology that drives them to such abominable acts. The perpetrators ARE convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the gates of heaven will be wide open to welcome them , as for rewards , well they will find out out wont they !

[RichardB]

FYI I agreed with the coilition intervention in Iraq I think Sadaam Hussein was a meglomanic despot who needed to be deposed But it is blatantly obvious that despite all the planning that went into the invasion no-one seemed to have done any planning for the aftermath.

I am shocked that you saw fit for the US to intervene militarily in Iraq just because its leader was a "megalomanic despot"!!!

I can think of two dozen other countries with leaders that fit this description and even worse, not excluding the US itself!

You also talk about "planning for the aftermath" like it's some sort of a project! What kind of "planning for the aftermath" where you expecting by the perpetrators after an entire nation is bombed to kingdom come???
Perhaps a rubble collection service? Maybe a rotting body disposal system? How about an orphan cleansing team?

I sometimes wonder which planet some of you posters come from...

—1978-80: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, whose ancestors were of Iranian origin, packed in trucks and thrown out on border with Iran. Property confiscated. Hundreds died in very cold weather. Thousands of their teenage sons kept in Iraqi jails and after more than 15 years all killed.

— 1983: Government campaign against members of Kurdish Barzani tribe for helping Iran launch offensive in northern Iraq. Estimated 8,000 killed, many buried in mass graves far from home in Iraq's southern desert.

—1986-88: Scorched-earth offensive known as "Anfal" that included chemical attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq for advocating autonomy. Estimated 180,000 Kurds killed, many buried in mass graves in south. Possible genocide charges in Iraqi tribunal.


—1991: Crackdowns on Shiite Muslim and Kurdish uprisings at end of the Gulf War. Estimated 60,000 killed. Many buried in mass graves.

—1992: Draining of marshes in southern Iraq, driving population known as Marsh Arabs from homes and wiping out way of life. Tens of thousands killed. No mass graves. Possible genocide charges.

—1979-2003: Various political prisoners of populations distrusted by Saddam disappeared, including Turkomans, religious Muslims and communists. Tens of thousands believed killed. Many buried in mass graves, some near prisons.

The above are some of the reasons why I saw fit for the intervention in Iraq

I know the situation in Iraq at the present is not ideal (to put it mildly)

Which is why I asked the question as to why no thought was given to the process for establishing the 'peace' after the invasion which you derided "like its some sort of project" Actually this is probably a good term to use as I'm sure if you commence on a "project" (in this case invasion and toppling of despotic leader) then the "project should be thought out beforehand from beggining to end. The point I was making was that this project was only thought out to the end of the beginning and is now coming unstuck daily.

I agree there are other countries whose leaders fit the description, You mention the USA, but the people of the US no matter what their colour or religion etc have a right to vote in a democratic society,and, therefore can change their government. Other countries peoples do not have this right which is why I mentioned Zimbabwe and I believe Tess pointed out Rwanda. It is these countries the west should be helping but I doubt they will as there is nothing for them to gain.

Yours RichardB born 1956....Planet reality

[miltiades]

FYI I agreed with the coilition intervention in Iraq I think Sadaam Hussein was a meglomanic despot who needed to be deposed But it is blatantly obvious that despite all the planning that went into the invasion no-one seemed to have done any planning for the aftermath.

I am shocked that you saw fit for the US to intervene militarily in Iraq just because its leader was a "megalomanic despot"!!!

I can think of two dozen other countries with leaders that fit this description and even worse, not excluding the US itself!

You also talk about "planning for the aftermath" like it's some sort of a project! What kind of "planning for the aftermath" where you expecting by the perpetrators after an entire nation is bombed to kingdom come???
Perhaps a rubble collection service? Maybe a rotting body disposal system? How about an orphan cleansing team?

I sometimes wonder which planet some of you posters come from...

—1978-80: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, whose ancestors were of Iranian origin, packed in trucks and thrown out on border with Iran. Property confiscated. Hundreds died in very cold weather. Thousands of their teenage sons kept in Iraqi jails and after more than 15 years all killed.

— 1983: Government campaign against members of Kurdish Barzani tribe for helping Iran launch offensive in northern Iraq. Estimated 8,000 killed, many buried in mass graves far from home in Iraq's southern desert.

—1986-88: Scorched-earth offensive known as "Anfal" that included chemical attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq for advocating autonomy. Estimated 180,000 Kurds killed, many buried in mass graves in south. Possible genocide charges in Iraqi tribunal.


—1991: Crackdowns on Shiite Muslim and Kurdish uprisings at end of the Gulf War. Estimated 60,000 killed. Many buried in mass graves.

—1992: Draining of marshes in southern Iraq, driving population known as Marsh Arabs from homes and wiping out way of life. Tens of thousands killed. No mass graves. Possible genocide charges.

—1979-2003: Various political prisoners of populations distrusted by Saddam disappeared, including Turkomans, religious Muslims and communists. Tens of thousands believed killed. Many buried in mass graves, some near prisons.

The above are some of the reasons why I saw fit for the intervention in Iraq

I know the situation in Iraq at the present is not ideal (to put it mildly)

Which is why I asked the question as to why no thought was given to the process for establishing the 'peace' after the invasion which you derided "like its some sort of project" Actually this is probably a good term to use as I'm sure if you commence on a "project" (in this case invasion and toppling of despotic leader) then the "project should be thought out beforehand from beggining to end. The point I was making was that this project was only thought out to the end of the beginning and is now coming unstuck daily.

I agree there are other countries whose leaders fit the description, You mention the USA, but the people of the US no matter what their colour or religion etc have a right to vote in a democratic society,and, therefore can change their government. Other countries peoples do not have this right which is why I mentioned Zimbabwe and I believe Tess pointed out Rwanda. It is these countries the west should be helping but I doubt they will as there is nothing for them to gain.

Yours RichardB born 1956....Planet reality

RichardB , all these massacres by a mere "megalomaniac despot ??? !!!!
I wonder what the extend of his brutality would reach if he was a repugnant bloodthirsty slaughterer , who insidently hanged recently , and good riddance to him.

I find it so bloody annoying when these Arab mentality posters , never utter one syllable of condemnation of those that are daily committing atrocities against their own people. Some have expressed such as " what else can they do " "they only have their bodies " .
One in particular who has an ulterior motive in his support of these savages , the ulterior motive being the potential use of such hideous individuals right here in Cyprus !!!

[RichardB]

megalomaniac despot

Just a term for want of a better word miltades

[RichardB]

Megalomania is

A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.

A despot is

Someone who rules with absolute power

I think I summed Sadaam Hussein up pretty well

[RichardB]

Eliko wrote

We, as members of this forum, should not allow the hatreds apparent in those conflicts, to permeate our discussions here, we all know of the horrors resulting from the actions of suicide bombers and extremists, let us debate the origins of these actions, let us discover WHY these actions have become an everyday event, let us uncover the reasons for all this hatred, if we can do that, we may be able to understand our own actions and the actions of others, those who are different to ourselves.

Eliko it seems this thread has got away from your original lead

The first 11 paragraphs I do not feel any rational person can argue with the sentiments you express which I belive brings us to para 12 where you ask a question re debating the origins of the actions of the suicide bombers.

My opinion for what its worth is that firstly I belive that the actions of the bombers stem from political and not religious beliefs and that the bombers are committing these acts in their belief that this will 'speed up' the process of fundementalism which is the establishment of Islamic states based on the literal translation of the Koran.

The reason I belive that westerners have a hatred of these acts because fundemantalism as wanted by these bombers is not compatable with a democratic society which treats all its citizens as equal

[Eliko]

miltiades,I have just read through many of the past posts in order to pinpoint where you may have gained the impression that I am a supporter of the evils of recent conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere.

I must tell you that I have found no such evidence and therefore dismiss your contentious opinion that I do.

The fact that I am unwilling to condemn certain actions without knowledge of their cause, does not make me a supporter of them, I think it reveals the fact that I prefer to discover the reasons for such actions before making any judgements. (not a bad characteristic I think) and certainly not an indication that I am unable to distinguish between right and wrong.

I CAN condemn the attack on Iraq however, since it is widely known that it was an unlawful act, I am sure the reasons for the attack are also widely known and are not acceptable to most since they are founded on lies.

I AGREE with your personal hatreds, ( those which you constantly highlight), I see nothing particularly unusual about them since I don't know of anyone who would not agree with your opinion on them, why do you have to keep mentioning them, we all know already.

I do not consider myself qualified to insult leaders of other nations since they are entitled to the respect that their position demands, whether or not we agree with their policies is irrelevant, it is a matter for the people of the nation affected by their leaders to decide.

YOU of course, interpret that as an indication that I am a supporter of Mugabe, which I am not, nor would I (hang him by the balls) which you say you would.

I would like to suggest that you take a little time and READ this, the fact that you have been so insultingly adverse to my past posts is a clear indication that you haven't in the past, also, take a little time thinking about the fact that there are some people with different perceptions to yours, allow them some credibility, they may have a point.

[Eliko]

RichardB, thank you for your response and thank you for giving me something intelligent to think about.