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[Paphitis]

Anyone worked it out yet?

This is one of the most important bases on the planet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Com ... ld_E._Holt

Why go to Diego Garcia? This is the transit point for all the ICBM launch codes.

2 QANTAS (World's safest airline) Flights nearly ditched in the area as well, and there are conspiracy theories that the Americans and Australians have some capability to interfere with aviation and that they will do that to protect this base. The world's safest airline nearly lost 2 aircraft in the area.

Read all about it. I have been there a few times.

But the conspiracy theorists were too stupid to even know anything about it so they shot themselves in the foot big time.

I mean, MH370 flying to Harold E Holt and then vanishing into thin air does have an air of plausibility unlike Diego Garcia.

Aircraft interference controversy

On 7 October 2008, Qantas Flight 72 made an emergency landing at Learmonth airport near the town of Exmouth, Western Australia following an inflight accident featuring a pair of sudden uncommanded pitch-down manoeuvres that resulted in serious injuries to many of the occupants.[16][17][18][19][20] The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) identified in a preliminary report that a fault occurred within the Number 1 Air Data Inertial Reference Unit (ADIRU) and is the "likely origin of the event". The ADIRU — one of three such devices on the aircraft — began to supply incorrect data to the other aircraft systems.[19][21] The ATSB's continuing accident investigation will include assessment of speculation that possible interference from Harold E. Holt facility or passenger personal electronic devices could have been involved, although based on initial analysis, the Bureau believes these are unlikely to have been of any impact.[19][22][23]

On 27 December 2008, another aircraft, Qantas Flight 71, also had a malfunction in its ADIRU. The incident again fuelled media speculation regarding the significance of the Harold E. Holt facility, with the Australian and International Pilots Association calling for commercial aircraft to be barred from the area as a precaution until the events are better understood,[24][25] while the manager of the facility has claimed that it is "highly, highly unlikely" that any interference has been caused.[26]

Both these incidents occurred right next to Harold E Holt!

Harold E Holt is the nerve centre of the entire USN and RAN Fleets and what is even more important is the fact that this is how they communicate to their entire Submarine Fleet whilst they are submerged using high powered VLF transmissions.

Armageddon begins here folks for your information! Arguably the most important base in the world. And only 30 kms South of this facility is RAAF Learmonth. Why do they have a mother fucker airbase in the middle of nowhere? 1 guess folks.

[Paphitis]

And you know why conspiracy theorists shot themsleves in the foot?

Because there are no Hollywood Movies about harold E Holt. Do you think the Yanks are STUPID?

They give you the James Bond movies about Diego Garcia and put your attention there. They don't want your attention on Harold E Holt, or Pine Gap or Agios Nikolaos.

Dumb fuckers!

[Robin Hood]

And you know why conspiracy theorists shot themsleves in the foot?

Because there are no Hollywood Movies about harold E Holt. Do you think the Yanks are STUPID?

They give you the James Bond movies about Diego Garcia and put your attention there. They don't want your attention on Harold E Holt, or Pine Gap or Agios Nikolaos.

Dumb fuckers!

Give up on all the boasting ..... it just makes you look incredibly stupid. Tou say these place are so secret nobody knows anything about them ..... but you do? May I pass on to you Vladimir's sincere thanks for pointing them out! He says he will look them up on Google Earth and get a few SATAN 2's ready with the coordinates programmed into them ..... just in case. In which case it is KYAGB time.

Maybe you are right ..... but maybe you are wrong. As you never provide any links it is impossible to come to any reasoned view because there is nothing to back up what you say.

One question: If all these points are know about the location, elevation and flight path of the aircraft ...... how come nobody knows where the hell it went to. With all this fancy gear the Australians have, satellites, war ships and P-8's surely they would have noticed a bloody great airliner that was not responding or conforming to recognised procedures?

[Paphitis]

Oh the snowflake is pissed off that he didn't know anything about it like all the other conspiracy theorists that eat their own shit!

I mean seriously, they had the perfect opportunity to actually come up with an interesting conspiracy theory and the 2 QANTAS Flights that nearly crashed within 12 months of each other in the exact same area was just icing on the tourta!

When does the World's Best Airline nearly lose 2 hulls within 12 months and both in EXACTLY the same location and with the exact same fault when QANTAS has never lost a jet in its entire history of jet flight over more than 7 decades? The swiss cheese couldn't align themselves any better.

Oh well snowflakes! Better luck next time.

As for our friend Vladimir. We created him, and we can destroy him. If any of these conspiracy theories are true, then I don't like Vlad's chances if you know what I mean. Harold E Holt would have already started the launch sequences for hundreds of ICBMs before any SATAN arrives.

And the fact that Harold E Holt is the base that actually relays and triggers the launch sequences for the entire Ballistic Submarine Fleet is no conspiracy theory. It is one of 3 bases around the world that have this function.

One question: If all these points are know about the location, elevation and flight path of the aircraft ...... how come nobody knows where the hell it went to. With all this fancy gear the Australians have, satellites, war ships and P-8's surely they would have noticed a bloody great airliner that was not responding or conforming to recognized procedures?

Well snowflake! One P8 is actually based at RAAF Learmonth hunting American and Australian Submarines for giggles.

But if you were smart, you would have asked these kinds of questions when MH370 occurred, and perhaps even blamed the Americans or Australians for the disappearance of MH370 but alas you blokes were not the sharpest tools in the tool box!

It's not the first time I mentioned Harold E Holt in lieu of Diego Garcia.

And to answer your question, it isn't an impossibility that they do not know where it is. What is difficult to understand is WHY they would hide the fact they are responsible for its disappearance when all they had to do is say that they were forced to shoot down an airliner because it was endangering vital military infrastructure and personnel. End of story.

There are actual procedures for the shooting down of airliners in certain circumstances like these or during terrorist hijacking events and none of them involve hiding the fact afterwards. It's just too hard to do. You know what they say. The truth ALWAYS sets you free and is the easiest way out. It's true. We don't even hide anything if we shoot something down by accident. We don't even make the slightest effort unlike some others like VLADIMIROS POOTIN.

And if it is true that they interfered with QANTAS Airliners, then that is an indication that they will stop at nothing to protect Harold E Holt. They will have no problems killing Australian Citizens.

And if they did shoot it down in Diego Garcia or Harold E Holt, no one is going to ask WHY. They are going to ask why it was in DG or Harold E Holt when it should be in China.

There will be no legal action against them and they would not be liable for compensation. There would be no hearing against them or repercussions. They could very easily and simply shrug it off and lay a wreath at a memorial for the victims.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

It's not the first time I mentioned Harold E Holt in lieu of Diego Garcia.

And to answer your question, it isn't an impossibility that they do not know where it is. What is difficult to understand is WHY they would hide the fact they are responsible for its disappearance when all they had to do is say that they were forced to shoot down an airliner because it was endangering vital military infrastructure and personnel. End of story.

I can understand why they would not admit they had the data and knew where it had gone down ..... as I pointed out .... National Security! But I said I didn’t think shooting it down was a probability either.

There are actual procedures for the shooting down of airliners in certain circumstances like these or during terrorist hijacking events and none of them involve hiding the fact afterwards. It's just too hard to do. You know what they say. The truth ALWAYS sets you free and is the easiest way out. It's true. We don't even hide anything if we shoot something down by accident. We don't even make the slightest effort unlike some others like VLADIMIROS POOTIN.

You are being childish again!

But when Russia shot down the Korean Airliner heading straight for an equivalent Russian facility ..... the West went ape-shit, even though a US surveillance plane was shown to be in the same area at the time.

The Russians I seem to remember did admit it immediately but said it was shot down in mistaken identity ........... the cabin lights were off and it failed to respond to all requests to identify itself ...... oh, and it was over a thousand miles off course at the time!

And if it is true that they interfered with QANTAS Airliners, then that is an indication that they will stop at nothing to protect Harold E Holt. They will have no problems killing Australian Citizens.

I have no idea what happened. It may have been big news in Australia but I don’t remember seeing it reported in the press at the time.

And if they did shoot it down in Diego Garcia or Harold E Holt, no one is going to ask WHY. They are going to ask why it was in DG or Harold E Holt when it should be in China.

No one shot it down ...... as you say they would have done it for a reason, so why would they hide it ?

There will be no legal action against them and they would not be liable for compensation. There would be no hearing against them or repercussions. They could very easily and simply shrug it off and lay a wreath at a memorial for the victims

.
Yeah ..... that just about sums up the attitude you project to the misfortunes of others.

[Paphitis]

Oh dear snowflakes!

Glad you acknowledge that the US did not shoot MH370. There was no reason for them to do it even if it overflew Diego Garcia. It is not a decision they will take lightly at all. It is only a last resort if it was even considered as an action in the first place which isn’t always a given. It depends on the situation. There would be more chance of MH370 getting shot down over Harold E Holt because that base is part of our Nuclear Deterrance and is the nerve centre for all the US and Australian Fleet in the Indian and Atlantic Ocean while Pearl Harbour does the same function for the Pacific.

Yes those 2 incidences were very real. You didn’t hear about it because the 2 QANTAS aircraft did not crash and they landed safely. But ASAIRS were submitted to the ATSB and both were investigated as major incidents or close calls. Incident reports were also published.

Both incidents were very similar, almost exactly the same and they occurred at the same location within 12 months of each other. Both planes were pitching and turning violently with no input from the pilots. Both aircraft entered into an uncontrolled dive towards earth. Both planes were deemed to have a faulty ADIRU. the odds of that are?

The conspiracy theory is that the US is able to interfere with the ADIRU. It’s not impossible.

But if the Americans have these bases covered, then I’m sorry but Pootin is literally fucked because there is nothing anyone can do. Might as well hand the keys over right now and accept the fact he is just an insignificant little dweeb or the dirt on the souls of their shoes.

I don’t know much about Korean Airlines. The Cold War was on and so forth so of course there would be repercussions. But if the airliner went through prohibited airspace, then there is nothing that can be done other than whinge about it. There is no legal recourse at all.

I was referring to MH17 in Ukraine. Russia shot it down. They could have basically admitted it, cooperated with the investigation and moved on. There is nothing that would have happened other than perhaps pay a small amount of compensation. No sanctions or anything. In fact he stuffed up because the sanctions were intensified as a result of it. I bet he regretted covering it up too but he probably didn’t believe there would be more sanctions. He still expects Trump to abolish the sanctions. Won’t be happening.!

The Americans would have just admitted it and dealt with it as best they could. They have never even attempted to play silly buggers with this kind of thing. NEVER! There is no precedence where they have done it.

Which is why they would just admit it if they had to destroy an airliner for a good reason.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

I was referring to MH17 in Ukraine. Russia shot it down. They could have basically admitted it, cooperated with the investigation and moved on. There is nothing that would have happened other than perhaps pay a small amount of compensation. No sanctions or anything. In fact he stuffed up because the sanctions were intensified as a result of it. I bet he regretted covering it up too but he probably didn’t believe there would be more sanctions. He still expects Trump to abolish the sanctions. Won’t be happening.!

That is only your opinion based on what you read in the MSM! Would you admit to something you had not done?

Russia has never been accused of shooting down MH17. The task of the Dutch investigation group was to ascertain the cause ..... not who did it. As far as I am concerned I have no problem with the result they came up with and I don’t think there are many people that question that.

It was from the US and Ukraine stories of their confidence that the anti-Govt. rebels in East Ukraine were responsible that this Rebel/Russian conspiracy theory originated and Kerry claimed the US had irrefutable proof. Unfortunately this irrefutable proof never materialised and apart from RADAR and audio transcripts from Russia, virtually nothing to support your wild hypothesis or even that the rebels did it, has ever been presented.

If you think about it sensibly you will see all the holes in the argument that either Russia or the rebels could have been involved. That ‘evidence’ was all created months later when they had to explain how the rebels managed to get hold of a BUK missile. Then Bellingcat produced the rather improbable story about a missile being bought from Russia, by road, in full view of anyone that was interested. But they never managed to phoygraph the command module without which the BUK is no more than a manually aimed rocket as it would not be possible to load the dynamic data of the target into its control system.

Then the Russians, in convoy and with one BUK missile missing, supposedly drove all the way back to Russia a couple of days after the incident. All this happened under the surveillance of US spy satellites and Ukraine military ...... but they didn’t notice? If the US had noticed I am sure the satellite evidence of its tortuous journeys, to and from the launch site, would have been presented to the Investigating Tribunal. It wasn’t!

Then, when the recovered pieces were examined it was proven to be from a BUK model that had been taken out of service with the Russian forces a long time before the incident. The only ones who still used this version were the Ukraine forces.

Your argument further falls apart when you ask the simple question ..... as would happen in a Court of Law ........... WHY? Qui bono .... who stood to gain by such an act of terrorism? Unless you are really, really stupid that has to exclude Russia. It could have been the rebel’s .... but they didn’t have the equipment to do it, so even if they had the intent, they didn’t have the means. So Bellingcat invented one that would also demonstrate Russian collusion!

So the whole scenario that it was the rebels supported by Russia is implausible, however the theory that the Ukraine’s were responsible either as a deliberate act or even by accident, as has been suggested, then that is far more plausible. That hypothesis could of course be shown to be rubbish if the Ukraine’s presented all the missing RADAR and ATC audio recordings,(civilian and military) and put the ATC’s guys up for interview. It would also help your case if the US did likewise ....... but neither will.

The Americans would have just admitted it and dealt with it as best they could. They have never even attempted to play silly buggers with this kind of thing. NEVER! There is no precedence where they have done it.

So would the Russians in the same situation (as you hypothesize fro MH270) and the same argument you put forward also applies to them, they have never done it before, but the Ukraines have!!!!! But this terrorist attack had no reason behind it ....... it was an act of mass murder ..... so far, by persons unknown.

Which is why they would just admit it if they had to destroy an airliner for a good reason.

But nobody but the Ukraine Military had a 'good reason', only Ukraine stood to gain from it .......... so they, supported by the US’s silence, banked on useful idiots believing the story and some did!

I sincerely hope that one day all this will get to an independent Court and all the evidence is examined. Then, and only then, will the truth be revealed.

[Paphitis]

That is total nonsense!

The Dutch investigation team is very clear that MH17 was bought down by a Russian BUK Missile system. That evidence is beyond all doubt.

And that means only 2 possibilities. Russian military which Russia never admitted were active in Ukraine but were, or their rebels in Ukraine obviously trained proficiently enough to use such a weapon which was owned by the Russian military. The weapon was launched from within Russian controlled areas.

Under either scenario, Russia is responsible for the downing even if it were their client rebels on the ground.

You can't just say it was the Ukrainians by simply stating they had to gain from the downing. That is nonsense and you know it. If they tried to pull of anything like this, they would have the most to lose because the majority of the world is in support of Ukraine not Russia. The UN GA resolutions are very clear and favor the Ukraine Government.

[Robin Hood]

That is total nonsense!

The Dutch investigation team is very clear that MH17 was bought down by a Russian BUK Missile system. That evidence is beyond all doubt.

Are you really that friggin dumb? READ WHAT I SAID ......A BUK DID IT ..... do you understand that? Can I make it any clearer for you?

BTW: The Ukraines also built this model of BUK and had the expertise to launch it (without further training) .... they also had the all importantl command module that the rebels didn't. (Training for the rebels .... are you serious) It's the rest of the shit you add that is nonsense!

And that means only 2 possibilities. Russian military which Russia never admitted were active in Ukraine but were, or their rebels in Ukraine obviously trained proficiently enough to use such a weapon which was owned by the Russian military. The weapon was launched from within Russian controlled areas.

That is pure hypothesis and absolute irrational rubbish.

The last sentence is a possibility, assuming you mean Russia rather than areas controlled by Russia, but highly improbable! None of Ukraine was or is under Russian control! The US would have had the launch on satellite images, it would have been front page news the following day and the US would have used that as an excuse to pour US troops and NATO troops into Ukraine to support the regime against Russian 'aggression'!

Under either scenario, Russia is responsible for the downing even if it were their client rebels on the ground.

How do you work that out? Does the US accept responsibility for all the atrocities in Syria carried out by their client rebels that they have been arming since the very beginning of this war?

Russia has said it will support those in East Ukraine, who are fighting a defence against what is an unelected, coup imposed, extremist, Nazi based government, not an insurgency like the US supported foreign fighters in Syria are fighting.

You can't just say it was the Ukrainians by simply stating they had to gain from the downing. That is nonsense and you know it. If they tried to pull of anything like this, they would have the most to lose because the majority of the world is in support of Ukraine not Russia. The UN GA resolutions are very clear and favor the Ukraine Government.

Not nonsense at all! You obviously know little of the principals of Law! The Ukraines were the only ones who gained from an act like this. I agree they would lose any sympathy if their story got blown apart and the details came out into the open, but at the moment the US has their back.

I think you will find that outside your gold-fish bowl most people respect Putin and would believe him over Pporoshenko any day. Very few people will actually follow the details of the story, most are like you and grab the MSM headlines and run with that story. The UN does not come into this ..... as YOU well know and you only revert to the UNGA when it suits you, just as I will do. International law is different ...... and that you will ignore when it is working against you as you frequently and openly admit!

[Paphitis]

They don't need to have Rebels trained to fire a BUK. There were Russian Troops in Ukraine assigned with the rebels and they had BUK Missiles.

There were even Russian Spetznaz deployed in Ukraine, as rebels. They were everywhere. In addition it only takes about 3 to 4 weeks to train someone on a BUK. It isn't rocket science you know! And it isn't that sophisticated either.

In addition, there were no Ukrainian BUKs anywhere near where MH17 was bought down and even the investigation teams couldn't get to the crash site for 3 weeks because it was in Russian Controlled areas of Ukraine and the rebels kept firing their guns onto their vehicles every time they tried. They didn't let them until they went though the debris in an effort to hide evidence of course.

It's not hypothesis at all but fact. The missile was launched in Russian held areas and the aircraft crashed in Russian held areas. Ukraine had nothing to do with oit and absolutely nothing to gain.

In fact, they would have risked worldwide condemnation and a full scale Russian Invasion if they started shooting down airliners thinking they were Antonov's

Right now, Ukraine has widespread international support through the UN, because Russia's actions are of illegitimate annexation of its sovereign territory. So it is Russia that would gain the most not Ukraine.

And no there is NOTHING at all credible that has come out to accuse Ukraine for the downing of MH17. On the contrary, all the official ICAO investigators point the finger squarely at Russia.