Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

No I am not referring to anything other than the Dutch reports and the fact that the International Investigation Team were staying in Rusian Held Areas such as Donetsk to access the crash site, which they were not able to do because they were continuously shot at by Russian Forces and their rebels.

Also for the fact that there were no Ukrainian Forces for a few hundred kilometers. The entire area was controlled by Russia right up to their border and there were Russian Forces everywhere. Not just a few hundred, but many thousands of Russian troops with the Rebels.

There were no Ukrainian troops at all in that area let alone any BUK.

This was an International Team that was involved as per the ICAO Rules. An International Team comprising Dutch, British, Australian, Malaysian, and German crash investigators. Ukrainian investigators were suppose to be there because it is their country but we told them not to go, plus they would probably endanger the lives of the entire team because the Russians would not have liked it and probably would have tried to kill them. It was Russian held territory.

Next thing you are going to tell us is that you were there too Genius!

What are you talking about boofhead who seems to think the Brits are our enemy! When are you going to leave the 1950s and be in the 21st century let alone the year 2018? Always looking back you are in the most futile of exercises whereas if you had half a brain you would be thinking about today, tomorrow and the future!

It isn’t very bright to foster feelings of mistrust with Britain, or even any animosity. If there is, and it continues to this day, then our politicians have failed us because it is this they should have ended a long time ago and actually make sure we are best of friends. Britain is a partner.

Ukraine was suppose to Head the investigation because the crash occurred in their dejure jurisdiction. The other countries told them to not even be involved in the investigation so as to not provoke the Russians further. As a result Holland was appointed as the lead investigator since MH17 departed Holland. They were second in line. USA was involved because the aircraft involved was a Boeing. Germany, Britain, Australia were involved because they lost the most people. Any country that loses people has a right to be involved. If a Cypriot citizen was on board, then Cyprus could as an ICAO signatory be involved in the investigation.

Ukraine was not in control of the areas the incident occurred in but have legal responsibility under international law.

The Ukraine Government has every right to insist they lead the investigation but did not do so because the other partners didn’t think that would be such a great idea.

Keep on talking to yourself Genius. You are evolving to a master of exhausting everyone with endless blaber blaber out of context.
You will get no more help from me.

[Pyrpolizer]

Well maybe just a little bit for the LAST time.
Even themselves admit it.
But they blame us for not understanding that Turkey's worth much more for them.
Easy read para. 65, 66, 67. Hope you do read it for once in your lifetine, I know you never read anything but headlines
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /47305.htm

[Paphitis]

Well maybe just a little bit for the LAST time.
Even themselves admit it.
But they blame us for not understanding that Turkey's worth much more for them.
Easy read para. 65, 66, 67. Hope you do read it for once in your lifetine, I know you never read anything but headlines
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /47305.htm

Yes Turkey is worth much more to them. You got it in one!

It's obvious. The Cyprus Government know it. Everyone knows it. You can bet your bottom dollar that when the Turkish Ambassador invites dignitaries, the British PM will attend, whereas they probably don't even know where the Cyprus Embassy is.

It's called interests. Turkey is an important country. Cyprus is a tiny insignificant country. But just because Cyprus is not important to them, does not mean they are eternal enemies because it just doesn't work that way.

I will speak about Australia but from extrapolate for the UK and EVERY other country from Holland to France, to Italy and Spain.

Turkey is important because of the intelligence sharing. This is of extreme importance to Australia since hundreds of thousands of Australians travel to Turkey every year for starters and they fear an ISIL terrorist event at a Gallipoli Service where there are hundreds of thousands of Australians gathered in the one spot. Then there is the military relationship which is substantial. Turkish and Australian military have a massive relationship. The military relationship is ALMOST as substantial with Greece, but with Cyprus it is pretty much non-existent.

Then its the Trade. 20 Billion Vs 20 million. Money talks and bullshit walks. It's just business.

Then is the UK's case, its defense contracts. The BAE contract to build Turkey's next gen trainers.

But this does not mean that they will look after Turkish interests at the expense of the Republic of Cyprus. On the contrary, the UK has been very clear. It does not recognize the "trnc" and it will never recognize it. It only recognized the dejure legitimate authorities (RoC) and it also supports the legal property ownership of Greek refugees. It has NEVER at any stage supported Turkish Interests regarding the Cyprus Problem or attempted in any way to upgrade the status of the "trnc". Now you will get different politicians say different things. It depends on how many Turkish voters there are in their electorate. But that is just politicking so that they can maintain their chair in Office. It isn't an official Government stance. You probably also have a couple of crook British MPs who own property in the "trnc" and head the "Friends of Turkey" committees. But again, they do not represent Britain's official Government stance or policy regarding Cyprus.

Quite the contrary. Despite all the interests going against the RoC, the UK was actually positioning itself and threatening a Naval Blockade of the island so that the Turkish Invasion force wouldn't be able to get though. Their stance is well document when the Brits were having a bitch fight with Kissinger himself.

[Paphitis]

No I am not referring to anything other than the Dutch reports and the fact that the International Investigation Team were staying in Rusian Held Areas such as Donetsk to access the crash site, which they were not able to do because they were continuously shot at by Russian Forces and their rebels.

Also for the fact that there were no Ukrainian Forces for a few hundred kilometers. The entire area was controlled by Russia right up to their border and there were Russian Forces everywhere. Not just a few hundred, but many thousands of Russian troops with the Rebels.

There were no Ukrainian troops at all in that area let alone any BUK.

This was an International Team that was involved as per the ICAO Rules. An International Team comprising Dutch, British, Australian, Malaysian, and German crash investigators. Ukrainian investigators were suppose to be there because it is their country but we told them not to go, plus they would probably endanger the lives of the entire team because the Russians would not have liked it and probably would have tried to kill them. It was Russian held territory.

Next thing you are going to tell us is that you were there too Genius!

What are you talking about boofhead who seems to think the Brits are our enemy! When are you going to leave the 1950s and be in the 21st century let alone the year 2018? Always looking back you are in the most futile of exercises whereas if you had half a brain you would be thinking about today, tomorrow and the future!

It isn’t very bright to foster feelings of mistrust with Britain, or even any animosity. If there is, and it continues to this day, then our politicians have failed us because it is this they should have ended a long time ago and actually make sure we are best of friends. Britain is a partner.

Ukraine was suppose to Head the investigation because the crash occurred in their dejure jurisdiction. The other countries told them to not even be involved in the investigation so as to not provoke the Russians further. As a result Holland was appointed as the lead investigator since MH17 departed Holland. They were second in line. USA was involved because the aircraft involved was a Boeing. Germany, Britain, Australia were involved because they lost the most people. Any country that loses people has a right to be involved. If a Cypriot citizen was on board, then Cyprus could as an ICAO signatory be involved in the investigation.

Ukraine was not in control of the areas the incident occurred in but have legal responsibility under international law.

The Ukraine Government has every right to insist they lead the investigation but did not do so because the other partners didn’t think that would be such a great idea.

Keep on talking to yourself Genius. You are evolving to a master of exhausting everyone with endless blaber blaber out of context.
You will get no more help from me.

Which part is out of context. And why am I out of context and not Robin Hood?

because we are talking about MH17? Well listen here Einstein. I think it is quite enough that we are subjected to the ridiculous nonsense that the USA is responsible for the disappearance of MH370, and yet the Russians are not responsible for MH17 but the Americans are responsible for that as well since the Ukrainians shot it down despite all the evidence that suggests otherwise.

It's getting a bit ridiculous. it's like the USA is evil and Russia is great. Well I am sorry but you Einsteins need to have a bit more maturity and also balance.

First of all, the USA actually saved Cyprus from an invasion in 1967. And if you actually had an ounce of respect, you wouldn't have been invaded in 1974. You idiots tried to get smart and a little fancy and they decided to screw you in the butt!

And despite you guys being total dorks, the UK was jumping up and down trying to save you guys in 1974 but failed. It had its entire navy in place ready for a naval blockade even.

Russia on the other hand has NEVER saved Cyprus from anything, and actually tried to use Cyprus to engage Greece and Turkey in war. Work it out and wake up!

You got to be kidding me when you say that the Russians actually like Cyprus and are willing to help Cyprus. When? When were they willing to help us? Here is a newsflash. They didn't give a rats arse about us at any moment. They just wanted to drive a huge wedge within NATO's Southern Flank and exploit the vulnerability at Cyprus' expense.

And the Americans did everything they possibly could to avoid this from happening at Cyprus expense.

[Paphitis]

In 1974, the UK was actually interceding on the RoC's behalf within The Pentagon, and Washington DC all the way up to the US President and Kissinger in support of RoC interests and against Turkey's interests.

Explain that one. Someone please explain how this country is suppose to be our eternal enemy. I may be missing something here.

This isn't our eternal enemy. It's actually a real friend. More of a friend than Greece was in 1974 that's for sure.

Yet some of you think the UK are enemies of the State. How is that so?

I'm willing to accept the fact that the USA was the RoC's enemy in 1974. Kissinger completely screwed us and orchestrated the invasion even. That is a fact no one can deny.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

No I am not referring to anything other than the Dutch reports and the fact that the International Investigation Team were staying in Rusian Held Areas such as Donetsk to access the crash site, which they were not able to do because they were continuously shot at by Russian Forces and their rebels.

Also for the fact that there were no Ukrainian Forces for a few hundred kilometers. The entire area was controlled by Russia right up to their border and there were Russian Forces everywhere. Not just a few hundred, but many thousands of Russian troops with the Rebels.

Provide just one credible link that supports that hypothesis!

This was an International Team that was involved as per the ICAO Rules. An International Team comprising Dutch, British, Australian, Malaysian, and German crash investigators. Ukrainian investigators were suppose to be there because it is their country but we told them not to go, plus they would probably endanger the lives of the entire team because the Russians would not have liked it and probably would have tried to kill them. It was Russian held territory.

You are ignoring simple questions put to you! Why?

You have yet to explain how the Russians/Rebels managed to shoot down an aircraft at some 10,000m altitude without a full set of gear. No RADAR unit = no target data: no command module = no way to input that data if they did have it. If it was the Russians ..... they must have ‘borrowed’ the missile from the Ukraine’s because they no longer have any of the type the investigators say the BUK missile was and the Russians agreed. But they couldn’t do that because, according to you, there were no Ukraine troops within hundreds of kilometres, let alone BUK missiles.

More of your fairy tales ...... FAKE NEWS

• Explain where this statement has any basis in fact: “.....they would probably endanger the lives of the entire team because the Russians would not have liked it and probably would have tried to kill them. It was Russian held territory.”
• FACT: It was the rebels that did the recovery work on all the victims out of respect.

• FACT:It was the inspectors on-site that expressed their thanks to the rebels for their assistance and carrying out the victim recovery work and it was the inspectors that condemned the Ukraine army for threatening the site.

• FACT: It was the rebels that collected all the personal possessions and marked the site where each and every piece was found.

• FACT: The Russians have never held any Ukraine territory. Check with the UNGA .... the only reference to Russian actions was Crimea and that conclusion is disputed.

• FACT: It was the Ukraine army that threatened the crash site ....... not the rebels.

You seem to be dreaming up all these Russian conspiracy theories. I am surprised you have not been called to give evidence in US’s Russophobia enquiry ..... because they could sure as hell do with some evidence from someone, anyone, even you would do. Because so far they haven’t found any!

This thread is going the same way as the Syria thread. You lost that as well by making stupid claims that mostly turned out to be bullshit too! The only prediction you made that came to be was that ...... the US would not leave Syrian soil ...... that is, until Assad and his allies throw them out, as he is perfectly entitled to do. But the US will leave before that happens and let their client terrorists take the fall.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis:

No I am not referring to anything other than the Dutch reports and the fact that the International Investigation Team were staying in Rusian Held Areas such as Donetsk to access the crash site, which they were not able to do because they were continuously shot at by Russian Forces and their rebels.

Also for the fact that there were no Ukrainian Forces for a few hundred kilometers. The entire area was controlled by Russia right up to their border and there were Russian Forces everywhere. Not just a few hundred, but many thousands of Russian troops with the Rebels.

Provide just one credible link that supports that hypothesis!

This was an International Team that was involved as per the ICAO Rules. An International Team comprising Dutch, British, Australian, Malaysian, and German crash investigators. Ukrainian investigators were suppose to be there because it is their country but we told them not to go, plus they would probably endanger the lives of the entire team because the Russians would not have liked it and probably would have tried to kill them. It was Russian held territory.

You are ignoring simple questions put to you! Why?

You have yet to explain how the Russians/Rebels managed to shoot down an aircraft at some 10,000m altitude without a full set of gear. No RADAR unit = no target data: no command module = no way to input that data if they did have it. If it was the Russians ..... they must have ‘borrowed’ the missile from the Ukraine’s because they no longer have any of the type the investigators say the BUK missile was and the Russians agreed. But they couldn’t do that because, according to you, there were no Ukraine troops within hundreds of kilometres, let alone BUK missiles.

More of your fairy tales ...... FAKE NEWS

• Explain where this statement has any basis in fact: “.....they would probably endanger the lives of the entire team because the Russians would not have liked it and probably would have tried to kill them. It was Russian held territory.”
• FACT: It was the rebels that did the recovery work on all the victims out of respect.

• FACT:It was the inspectors on-site that expressed their thanks to the rebels for their assistance and carrying out the victim recovery work and it was the inspectors that condemned the Ukraine army for threatening the site.

• FACT: It was the rebels that collected all the personal possessions and marked the site where each and every piece was found.

• FACT: The Russians have never held any Ukraine territory. Check with the UNGA .... the only reference to Russian actions was Crimea and that conclusion is disputed.

• FACT: It was the Ukraine army that threatened the crash site ....... not the rebels.

You seem to be dreaming up all these Russian conspiracy theories. I am surprised you have not been called to give evidence in US’s Russophobia enquiry ..... because they could sure as hell do with some evidence from someone, anyone, even you would do. Because so far they haven’t found any!

This thread is going the same way as the Syria thread. You lost that as well by making stupid claims that mostly turned out to be bullshit too! The only prediction you made that came to be was that ...... the US would not leave Syrian soil ...... that is, until Assad and his allies throw them out, as he is perfectly entitled to do. But the US will leave before that happens and let their client terrorists take the fall.

What a load of nonsense. Who said there was no radar? Who on earth would deploy a BUK without its TAR. They had a TAR alright. It's just that they had to remove the launcher module with the missing missile in case the investigators will see it. The TAR can be used on its own to track Air Movements, not just for target acquisition.

The radar also only has a range of 32 nms and the missiles 20 nms. The area in which MH17 was shot down was within Russian held territories by a lot more than 50kms. There were no Ukrainian Military units in the area or BUK missile systems.

Only Russian Troops and their rebels. The investigators were even staying in Donetsk, which was Russian or rebel held. That was another reason why Ukrainian investigators were unable to attend. It was unsafe for them to do so and they would have provoked the Russians if they were there heading the investigation.

So stop spreading your FAKE news. The world know exactly what occurred here and no one believes your nonsense.

You can repeat yourself over and over but the fact is, this event took place within Russian held territory. There was no possibility of a Ukrainian BUK missile even getting close to MH17.


Pro Russian seperatist stands guard at the MH17 crash site.

According to Bellingcat:
Investigative journalism group Bellingcat, in a report released in May, traced the missile to the 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade of the Russian army, based in the Russian city of Kursk.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/mh17/59528/mis ... tion-rules

In the weeks preceding the crash, DPR and Russian media celebrated acquisition of the Buk launchers by the separatists and downing of several Ukrainian air force aircraft.

On the evening of the crash, the LifeNews portal released a statement from the separatists saying that a "Ukrainian Air Force An-26 transport plane" had been shot down by a missile and crashed. ITAR-TASS and RIA Novosti also reported that an An-26 had been shot down by the separatist militia near Torez at around 16:00 local time in what it described as "yet another victory of DPR self-defence".

However, shortly after it became evident that the plane was a civilian one the separatist media denied any involvement in the crash and possession of anti-aircraft missiles capable of reaching this altitude.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:
From your link ........

The joint investigation team (JIT) faced "extraordinary challenges" in the inquiry, says the Associated Press. "The crime scene in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk oblast was located in an active war zone, and during the days following the crash pro-Kremlin militants limited access to the site," it says.

But there were no Ukraine forces within hundreds of Km according to you. So who were the rebels ‘active’ with? Well .... you have just proved one of your claims to be wrong. And also, the JIT reports makes no mention of the rebels preventing access, so more fake news propaganda by the AP journalist.

From the ACTUAL presentation of the JIT report ........ not a report of a report written by a AP journalist.

I really don’t have a issues with their findings so far, but they go to great lengths to explain they are not awarding blame ..... it’s not their brief! They are collecting criminal evidence. If they are relying on Bellingcat evidence, they will have no case. It is full of holes and does not stand up to scrutiny.

https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-vliegramp/presentaties/presentation-joint/

Some snippets from that report .........

• And furthermore, many journalists carried out their own investigations, as did research collectives like Bellingcat. This resulted in different scenarios and theories being raised, both in the media and on the internet.
• ...... the evidence must stand before a court. We are confident that the evidence which we have collected removes any kind of doubt about the cause of the crash.
• The JIT has acquired sufficient and crucial radar images. These images were made available to the JIT by both Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
• The Russian Federation mentioned last week that they have found ‘new’ primary radar images. Based on those images even the Russian Federation concludes that there was no second airplane that could have shot down MH17.
• Flight MH17 was shot down by a ground based air defence system. On the basis of a large amount of evidence we can conclude that this is indeed the scenario which took place.
• In July 2014, heavy fighting was going on in the area southeast of Donetsk.
• During these fights, the Ukrainian army carried out many air strikes in order to stop this offensive.
• ......... the pro-Russian fighters mentioned that they needed better air defence systems to defend themselves against these air strikes.
• Fact is that a BUK has a higher range than the air defence systems in use by the separatists at that moment, such as the Strela and Igla.

Neither you or I, nor the JIT know who was responsible yet. The JIT say they have evidence that casts blame to a high degree of probability. In a civil case that is enough ..... in a criminal case, which is what they are moving onto, it has to be beyond reasonable doubt.

I have spent quite a while trying to find videos of anything that shows more than the BUK system on a low loader and a hotch potch of civilian escort vehicles, but I can’t. I still think that there are none! Which means, as you acknowledge, the BUK would be pretty much useless without the Radar and Command platforms, given the proven accuracy of the strike. But they appear nowhere, either on the inward route or the return route.

Bellingcat are vehemently anti-Russian, surely any nail they could put in Putins coffin .... they would. So where are the videos/photos of the other essential vehicles?

IMO: The lack of this evidence is the evidence that supports the chances that it was unlikely the rebels that fired it. I am sure if it was fired by the Russians from inside Russia, there would be plenty of evidence. The more you delve into this the more you realize what a bag-of-worms it is!

[Robin Hood]

In 1974, the UK was actually interceding on the RoC's behalf within The Pentagon, and Washington DC all the way up to the US President and Kissinger in support of RoC interests and against Turkey's interests.

Explain that one. Someone please explain how this country is suppose to be our eternal enemy. I may be missing something here.

This isn't our eternal enemy. It's actually a real friend. More of a friend than Greece was in 1974 that's for sure.

Yet some of you think the UK are enemies of the State. How is that so?

I'm willing to accept the fact that the USA was the RoC's enemy in 1974. Kissinger completely screwed us and orchestrated the invasion even. That is a fact no one can deny.

You make a grave error! Nobody says that the UK is your enemy but they are not your friend when push comes to shove. Just like the US and Israel, they do just what suits them. Forget any idea that any of the three will come to the aid of a 'friend'. They will ALWAYS work solely in their own interests. If it came to selling out Australia to the Chinese if it avoided a conflict threatening US/UK interests ........ they would !

[Robin Hood]

Well maybe just a little bit for the LAST time.
Even themselves admit it.
But they blame us for not understanding that Turkey's worth much more for them.
Easy read para. 65, 66, 67. Hope you do read it for once in your lifetine, I know you never read anything but headlines
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /47305.htm

Don't go ...... his recent return has livened things up a bit. Ok, so he nearly always drifts of the thread into his other World but that is part of his charm ..... he is totally unpredictable. He will soon get fed up with just me poking him and if he leaves again I will have nothing to read when I am eating my Lidl Muesli in the morning.