Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

I do not think you are right. really.

At best, I think you mean well are being naïve and lead like a lamb to slaughter..

I think you need to be less cynical because the fact is there is genuine concern when countries like Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal go under. There are no winners in these scenarios just losers all round and the people suffer too.

there is nothing the Bankers can take that can in any way pay for what was lost from their perspective, and even the Troika is a big loser because they need to provide a haircut (lost money) and bail out (cheap as chips loan).

and the money for these bribes and cheap as chips loans was created by these bankers out of thin air and forced on to the suffering people like a scorching hot potato..

how can you say now, that there is genuine concern, when a few pages back you say Greece has little to offer? why the concern?

some other country that has a lot more to offer because Greece never really had much to begin with.

These cheap loans were necessary to pay out expensive loans that Greece took out from private Bankers of which some had a very high interest rate of up to 17%. It was either this or total bankruptcy and Government shut down.

In the end, no one can be held responsible to Greece's mismanagement other than its own Governments.

Aside from this, Greece received a haircut of 130 billion Euro which translates to 30% of its GDP. This is an enormous leg up.

Haircut = a creditor write down of debt. In other words 130 billion was written off and the creditors had to undertake the losses to their Balance Sheet.

A haircut was something which Cyprus sadly did not get. In fact, Cypriot Banks had a 10 Billion Euro write share of the Greek Haircut which is a huge catastrophe and that translates to 40% of the RoC's GDP.

Cyprus should have at least had an 8 Billion Euro haircut. I blame the stupid AKEL Government for not negotiating and leaving things until it was too late.

[Maximus]

I do not think you are right. really.

At best, I think you mean well are being naïve and lead like a lamb to slaughter..

I think you need to be less cynical because the fact is there is genuine concern when countries like Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal go under. There are no winners in these scenarios just losers all round and the people suffer too.

there is nothing the Bankers can take that can in any way pay for what was lost from their perspective, and even the Troika is a big loser because they need to provide a haircut (lost money) and bail out (cheap as chips loan).

and the money for these bribes and cheap as chips loans was created by these bankers out of thin air and forced on to the suffering people like a scorching hot potato..

how can you say now, that there is genuine concern, when a few pages back you say Greece has little to offer? why the concern?

some other country that has a lot more to offer because Greece never really had much to begin with.

These cheap loans were necessary to pay out expensive loans that Greece took out from private Bankers of which some had a very high interest rate of up to 17%. It was either this or total bankruptcy and Government shut down.

In the end, no one can be held responsible to Greece's mismanagement other than its own Governments.

Aside from this, Greece received a haircut of 130 billion Euro which translates to 30% of its GDP. This is an enormous leg up.

Haircut = a creditor write down of debt. In other words 130 billion was written off and the creditors had to undertake the losses to their Balance Sheet.

Try and break out of this cycle of debt and corruption..

You keep reinforcing the thesis of the "conspiracy".

[Paphitis]

I do not think you are right. really.

At best, I think you mean well are being naïve and lead like a lamb to slaughter..

I think you need to be less cynical because the fact is there is genuine concern when countries like Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal go under. There are no winners in these scenarios just losers all round and the people suffer too.

there is nothing the Bankers can take that can in any way pay for what was lost from their perspective, and even the Troika is a big loser because they need to provide a haircut (lost money) and bail out (cheap as chips loan).

and the money for these bribes and cheap as chips loans was created by these bankers out of thin air and forced on to the suffering people like a scorching hot potato..

how can you say now, that there is genuine concern, when a few pages back you say Greece has little to offer? why the concern?

some other country that has a lot more to offer because Greece never really had much to begin with.

These cheap loans were necessary to pay out expensive loans that Greece took out from private Bankers of which some had a very high interest rate of up to 17%. It was either this or total bankruptcy and Government shut down.

In the end, no one can be held responsible to Greece's mismanagement other than its own Governments.

Aside from this, Greece received a haircut of 130 billion Euro which translates to 30% of its GDP. This is an enormous leg up.

Haircut = a creditor write down of debt. In other words 130 billion was written off and the creditors had to undertake the losses to their Balance Sheet.

Try and break out of this cycle of debt and corruption..

You keep reinforcing the thesis of the "conspiracy".

Well Cyprus and Greece have to break out of this stupid cycle otherwise there is no hope for them.

They will have no choice.

It was you that put up an article about Greek corruption. The article was very accurate because the Defence Scandals did occur (Tsohatsopoulos).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgzNnBBv1K8

[Maximus]

This is the choice

Corruption and debt, or jackal's and bullet to the head.

[Paphitis]

This is the choice

Corruption or a bullet to the head.

No the bullet in the head has already been lodged but Greece just survived.

The real choice is to move on and fix the country and have some brain surgery to remove the bullet. If that does not happen, then Greece will have another bullet in the head and that will destroy the country.

[Maximus]

This is the choice

Corruption or a bullet to the head.

No the bullet in the head has already been lodged but Greece just survived.

The real choice is to move on and fix the country. If that does not happen, then Greece will have another bullet in the head.

[Paphitis]

This is the choice

Corruption or a bullet to the head.

No the bullet in the head has already been lodged but Greece just survived.

The real choice is to move on and fix the country. If that does not happen, then Greece will have another bullet in the head.

I don't see the laughing matter.

Fact is it was their doing for a variety of reasons and part of the problem was all the corruption and scandals.

If Greece and Cyprus don't make any changes then there is not much hope.

[Maximus]

This is the choice

Corruption or a bullet to the head.

No the bullet in the head has already been lodged but Greece just survived.

The real choice is to move on and fix the country. If that does not happen, then Greece will have another bullet in the head.

I don't see the laughing matter.

Fact is it was their doing for a variety of reasons and part of the problem was all the corruption and scandals.

If Greece and Cyprus don't make any changes then there is not much hope.

Its very funny because you are going round in circles.

This is the choice according to John Perkins, and the US empire.

bribe and corrupt state officials to serve their and their corporates interests and indebt a country so it can be controlled and exploited or send in the jackals and the military machine to help change their mind or change the regime.

You blame the 'victim' too, expecting them to change and break this cycle without consequence from outsiders.

[Paphitis]

This is the choice

Corruption or a bullet to the head.

No the bullet in the head has already been lodged but Greece just survived.

The real choice is to move on and fix the country. If that does not happen, then Greece will have another bullet in the head.

I don't see the laughing matter.

Fact is it was their doing for a variety of reasons and part of the problem was all the corruption and scandals.

If Greece and Cyprus don't make any changes then there is not much hope.

Its very funny because you are going round in circles.

This is the choice according to John Perkins, and the US empire.

bribe and corrupt state officials to serve their and their corporates interests and indebt a country so it can be controlled and exploited or send in the jackals and the military machine to help change their mind or change the regime.

You blame the 'victim' too, expecting them to change and break this cycle without consequence from outsiders.

Actually, no i am not going round in circles. It is you that is coming up with wild fantasies. I am just telling it the way it is without the nonsense.

Unfortunately, being Greek or Cypriot is also a disease. It is critical to understand that we are not as clever as we make out, and we need to put our egos to one side for the good of both countries. Just like everything else, we f@#ked up big time, and because of that, the populations in both countries will suffer from a reduced standard of living. Yes we do need help from outside to address a few endemic issues which our politicians were unwilling to take care of.

This crisis is also an opportunity for a better Greece and a better Cyprus that is fairer to all its citizens. It is just unfortunate that today the citizens of both countries will suffer in order to achieve this. But regardless, both need to look at their long term goals and develop a level of transparency that will safeguard against this in the future.

Don't ever think for one second we did not bring this upon ourselves. The blame game ends right here and right now, because it does not solve anything.

Both countries were run like African Tinpots and having lived in other countries I can see very stark differences between the way these countries are run and Greece/Cyprus.

I also am a lot more upbeat about Greece's and Cyprus' future prospects. I also believe that both will experience a short boom recovery within the next 5 years. but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think we are bullet proof because that is not the case. Just like a few years back when the Stock Market was booming and every man and his dog put their every cent into the market only to have it crash and fortunes lost. We need to manage ourselves properly, be flexible, and look for diversity and minimize risk. But unfortunately, when we put our finger in the honey jar, we then start drinking it with a straw and get diabetes.

[Maximus]

This is all well and good but you are rejecting (without any proof to the contrary) the confessions of John Perkins (who is an expert that was doing this) and the repeatable patterns that are happening in various countries around the world.

So, we cant go any deeper done the rabbit hole..

The reality of war.