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Ukraine - The reality of war.

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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Maximus » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:52 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
I would also direct you to the second of Maximus’ YouTube links as you seem to think journalists are not too bright. The journalists were running circles round the US spokes person who was trying to lie and bluster her way through clear evidence that the US was behind events in Ukraine. These are the politicians that you seem to believe without question?


They got their man in to office too.
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby zan » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:48 pm

You working for the russians RH :lol:
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:36 am

zan wrote:You working for the russians RH :lol:

That could appear to be the case but I look at a much bigger picture and over a longer period of time to come to my own conclusions. What is happening in Ukraine has happened many times in the 70 years since WWII and follows an identifiable pattern. Over that period the methodology has evolved but the basic principal still applies.

A certain foreign power identifies that a country has something they have an interest in. They use covert means to stir up discontent in the country and start a process of demonisation of a government and individuals. The protestors are encouraged until the protest turns to violence and the government is further demonised as they invariably turn to the military to put down the unrest. The foreign power will use the press, over which it has editorial control, to present the story in a way that supports their condemnation of events and they get the support of their own people. Not so much now but in the old days they would maybe, but not always, have boots on the ground. The end result would be that they install their man on the Throne, he plays by their rules for a very good 'salary'. Bingo, they have command of that country without the problems of trying to rule it.

Look up Iran 1953 and the Mossadegh Government. Democratically elected but he nationalised the oil/gas industry which was run by UK/US oil companies because he found out that the lions share of the profits were going to the oil companies, not to the Iranian people. Although denied at the time, over the years it has been revealed that the CIA and MI6 were the ones who orchestrated the unrest, told all the lies and demonised Mossadegh until he was overthrown, arrested and put under house arrest for the rest of his life. In his place they installed The Shah on the Peacock throne, trained the Iranian secret police and the Iranian people had to endure 28 years of tyranny but the US/UK got all their oil facilities back and made a lot of money ..... as did The Shah. The rest is history.

Just one example but Iran’s case is now proven and even admitted to by the US and the UK. There are dozens of similar examples in the years since WWII.

I don’t particularly like Putin as a person but he has turned out to be an astute politician and an excellent military planner. Putin has an 80% popularity rating in Russia (something Obama wishes he had as his is in single digits) and I think it is because he has returned self respect to the people of Russia. He has shown he is capable of taking on the country’s enemies and defeating them on the World stage with diplomacy rather than by resorting war.

Putin is not stupid and although the west are trying every trick in the book to make him cross the border to help the Russians in Ukraine, he will not give them the opportunity to blame Russia ................. but the propaganda and demonization continues. However, as yet there is absolutely no evidence for Russia's direct or even indirect intervention in Ukraine.(No doubt there is covert support but not overt support) They are accused of supplying tanks ............ a model Russia never had .......... but the Ukraine army does! Hmmmmm, a bit embarrassing for Kiev when their military keep losing all their battle gear, arms and ammunition dumps, to the ‘terrorists’ or is it a fact that many of their military are defecting?

So, yes I support Putin, believe that most of the news readily available is heavily biased and history says very clearly that given their track record to date ........... the US is the aggressor here not the Russians. The evidence to support it abounds but you will not find it watching TV or reading the MSM news sheets.

This is an interesting thread.
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:40 am

The town of Kramatorsk is under heavy bombardment from Ukraine forces ....... strange, with maybe as many as a thousand civilian casualties, that there is nothing being reported on/in the MSM!

There are updates and comment on:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Oceanside50 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:44 am

You'rer exchanging one demon for another..what difference does it make whether or not Putin is an aggressor or George Bush.. Instead of condemning both, you're praising the one that fucked the Ukraine against the wishes of Obama. What's your point?...as for Iran and the legitimacy of the Shaw, it's well proven that what you said is correct, he was basically a USA puppet, who managed to be the legitimate leader of Iran for 30 years. As for Khomeini, some Iranians believe he was put there and helped to overthrow the Shaw by the West, which also could be true.
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby zan » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:48 am

Robin Hood wrote:
zan wrote:You working for the russians RH :lol:

That could appear to be the case but I look at a much bigger picture and over a longer period of time to come to my own conclusions. What is happening in Ukraine has happened many times in the 70 years since WWII and follows an identifiable pattern. Over that period the methodology has evolved but the basic principal still applies.

A certain foreign power identifies that a country has something they have an interest in. They use covert means to stir up discontent in the country and start a process of demonisation of a government and individuals. The protestors are encouraged until the protest turns to violence and the government is further demonised as they invariably turn to the military to put down the unrest. The foreign power will use the press, over which it has editorial control, to present the story in a way that supports their condemnation of events and they get the support of their own people. Not so much now but in the old days they would maybe, but not always, have boots on the ground. The end result would be that they install their man on the Throne, he plays by their rules for a very good 'salary'. Bingo, they have command of that country without the problems of trying to rule it.

Look up Iran 1953 and the Mossadegh Government. Democratically elected but he nationalised the oil/gas industry which was run by UK/US oil companies because he found out that the lions share of the profits were going to the oil companies, not to the Iranian people. Although denied at the time, over the years it has been revealed that the CIA and MI6 were the ones who orchestrated the unrest, told all the lies and demonised Mossadegh until he was overthrown, arrested and put under house arrest for the rest of his life. In his place they installed The Shah on the Peacock throne, trained the Iranian secret police and the Iranian people had to endure 28 years of tyranny but the US/UK got all their oil facilities back and made a lot of money ..... as did The Shah. The rest is history.

Just one example but Iran’s case is now proven and even admitted to by the US and the UK. There are dozens of similar examples in the years since WWII.

I don’t particularly like Putin as a person but he has turned out to be an astute politician and an excellent military planner. Putin has an 80% popularity rating in Russia (something Obama wishes he had as his is in single digits) and I think it is because he has returned self respect to the people of Russia. He has shown he is capable of taking on the country’s enemies and defeating them on the World stage with diplomacy rather than by resorting war.

Putin is not stupid and although the west are trying every trick in the book to make him cross the border to help the Russians in Ukraine, he will not give them the opportunity to blame Russia ................. but the propaganda and demonization continues. However, as yet there is absolutely no evidence for Russia's direct or even indirect intervention in Ukraine.(No doubt there is covert support but not overt support) They are accused of supplying tanks ............ a model Russia never had .......... but the Ukraine army does! Hmmmmm, a bit embarrassing for Kiev when their military keep losing all their battle gear, arms and ammunition dumps, to the ‘terrorists’ or is it a fact that many of their military are defecting?

So, yes I support Putin, believe that most of the news readily available is heavily biased and history says very clearly that given their track record to date ........... the US is the aggressor here not the Russians. The evidence to support it abounds but you will not find it watching TV or reading the MSM news sheets.

This is an interesting thread.


What I gave you in post was what I actually saw not what the news readers said. I gave up listening to them years ago. It makes no sense at all for the US to be making trouble in the Ukraine and as Putin himself said those words then i see no reason to not believe him :lol: They are as bad as each other but the only reason Putin is not making more trouble outside is that he lost that war and the US has a stronghold so please, don't make him out to be some sort of saint. The vision of him and Obama eyeing each other up at the D-Day gathering was enough for me. The gas evidence is overwhelming and we have even been told to expect blackouts this winter. I think you are a bit blinkered whilst asking others to open their minds. You are guilty of the same.
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Robin Hood » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:24 am

Oceanside50:
You'rer exchanging one demon for another!

I don’t think so as, unless you believe the western media without any proof, that Russia is an aggressor and behind all the unrest, when there is ample proof, even in the western media, of US involvement. That says there is only one source of aggression and that emanates from the US. Russia has had its base in Sevastopol for generations so, why wait until now to decide to annex Crimea ........... they have had years to do so, if that had been their intention. So you have to look at ‘Why now?’ and the reason becomes obvious ...... a direct and existential threat from the US/EU/NATO to deprive Russia not only of its only warm water naval base and access to the Mediterranean but also the intention to admit Ukraine into NATO thus creating a direct threat to Russian national security.

I would expect there is some support from Russia for the separatists in Eastern Ukraine but I have yet to see any evidence to support the suggestion that they have troops on the ground. They seem to be getting most of the weapons they have from the Ukraine Army depots.
................what difference does it make whether or not Putin is an aggressor or George Bush. Instead of condemning both, you're praising the one that fucked the Ukraine against the wishes of Obama
.
I don’t really understand what you are getting at! Putin/Russia initially was not involved, if you remember it was anti-Yanukovitch sentiment that was behind the initial unrest not anti-Russian sentiment. Putin did nothing until the US kicked off the coup using proven Nazi/Fascist parties that they had been supporting for some ten years. They then installed and immediately endorsed their anti-Russian puppet regime in Kiev. Only then did the Russian Bear wake up to the threat to Sevastopol as the coup installed leaders made it very clear they were going to tear up the Sevastopol agreement and remove Crimea’s autonomous status. In my book, Putin simply protected his nation’s national security without the need for the usual ‘shock and awe’ tactics. Putin may have bent the rules to do so, i.e. his troops left their bases, but the end result justified his very moderate response.

As regard to the annexation ..... it is a matter of interpretation as to whether the Crimean’s were or were not acting within the UN definition of ‘self determination’ when they had their referendum and as a result of that made the request for Russian annexation. But it wasn’t Russia that made that decision ............ it was the people of Crimea, many of whom though were ethnic Russians.

I gave the example of Iran to demonstrate a method which is the basis for almost all of the US interventions where they want regime change because an incumbent government could not bought out. I could have chosen about 20 others or even more but, the facts about the US/UK inspired coup in Iran and what followed, is now a matter of historic fact.

As for Khomenei ............ most Iranians didn’t have a clue about who he was or what he stood for as he had been banished by the Shah and little appeared in the Iranian Press about him for almost 30 years.
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Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:10 am

...honestly, i did not read all twelve pages, but very interesting.
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