The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Ukraine - The reality of war.

Everything related to politics in Cyprus and the rest of the world.

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Maximus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:46 am

Paphitis wrote:
The Russians have no right to hold this country to ransom. If they do not like being in Ukraine then they could always leave and go to Russia and leave the Ukrainians to their own devices.


You say that you see similarities between Ukraine and Cyprus but I see subtle and obvious differences between the two.

Do you say the same about the TC's going back to Turkey?
Last edited by Maximus on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maximus
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:02 pm

Paphitis:
As far as Putin's so called solution which you portray as being the only way out, does this involve the return of Crimea and the disarmament of all Russian supported Militias?

It would ensure that Crimea retained the autonomy it had under the previous elected government! From that point on it would be up to the people to decide which way their loyalties lay. This should be done, if this is what the people of Crimea want, under the auspices of the UN and without US/EU/NATO interference. If their security was ensured they would not need any more than a police force, so yes the Militias would disarm.

But to do this you first need a truce/ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine and that is only possible if the US gives the word. I do not see how Russia can achieve a truce/ceasefire when they have very little control over the situation. All Russia could do is to invade Ukraine and separate the fighting faction’s ..... and I am sure beyond all doubt that the US would be ‘over-the Moon’ at such a move ........ but for all the wrong reasons. :roll: Putin is not stupid! 8)

Ukraine has its own territorial Integrity to consider and its own right to decide whether they want to join the EU and NATO
.
For Ukraine to join NATO would of course be contrary to previous agreements for ex-Warsaw Pact countries to remain outside of that organisation. Mind you, the US has not kept to that agreement at all so far, so I suppose they won’t this time. Ukraine joining NATO is a second cold war and another arms race. With all due respects; NATO is a US militia ..... just check out their involvement in all the recent conflicts, particularly The Balkans, ..... NATO has little to do with collective protection it is a force for carrying out acts of war on behalf of the US.

As for Ukraine becoming a member of the EU; they have to meet certain conditions just like any other applicant ..... it will take them years!

Without this, then I am not surprised that Putin's proposal is not being taken seriously by anyone and there are UN Resolutions on the matter.

There are many UN resolutions on various matters ...... I believe Israel has about 150 outstanding and it has not bothered the US one little bit that they have never complied. Strangely though, there has never even been a whisper of a suggestion to apply sanctions on Israel to ensure THEY do comply. As I said the US run a double set of standards so it is not surprising that the world is beginning to distrust their actions and blames them for most of the troubles.
The Government is not illegal. All were elected and the previous incumbent fled his post.

The government now running Ukraine was NOT elected, the ‘Ministers’ were installed by the US as the result of a US instigated coup d’etat and that makes it illegal. But once again if you are an ‘exceptional’ nation then apparently the law does not apply. As I said previously, Hitler also declared that the Germans were an exceptional Nation ........... but as he found out to his cost, there were those that disagreed! :shock:
The Russians have no right to hold this country (Ukraine) to ransom.

And exactly HOW are they doing that? If you are referring to their gas supply ......... the Ukraine hasn’t been paying for its gas for a very long time. Gasprom gave them a subsidised rate as a special customer and they then bit the hand that fed them and yet the Russians are still supplying them with gas! How long would your gas/electric supply remain connected to your house in Australia if you didn’t pay the bill? I think the Russians have shown great tolerance.
If they do not like being in Ukraine then they could always leave and go to Russia and leave the Ukrainians to their own devices.

You surprise me Paphitis! That is the response we get here from some ignorant Cypriots when you dare to complain about anything. .......... “If you don’t like it, go back where you came from!” Your credibility rating has just dropped several percentage points. :wink:

You seem to totally disregard the fact that Crimea WAS part of Russia, until Kruschev (A Ukraine by the way!!!) annexed it to Ukraine. As I have quoted Putin previously ..... ‘the people of Crimea went to bed one night as Russians and woke up in the morning to the fact they were now Ukraine’.

In my book as an autonomous region of Ukraine they would have every right to self determination, just like Scotland, and if that means they re-unite with their Russian origins as the result of a legally constituted referendum, so be it. Who are the US/EU to say otherwise?

If the US kept its nose out of the affairs of other countries and put the NATO Rottweiler back in its kennel .... this World would be a far better place! Instead of spending billions every year to propagate war we could re-allocate the money where it would make a difference to ordinary people. At the moment the only beneficiaries are the top 1% of the Planets population ..... if that .... more like the top 0.01%? :x
Robin Hood
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 4342
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Limassol

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Maximus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:09 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:What does Russia get?


They have annexed Crimea! :roll:


Entrapment.
Maximus
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:31 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Paphitis:
As far as Putin's so called solution which you portray as being the only way out, does this involve the return of Crimea and the disarmament of all Russian supported Militias?

It would ensure that Crimea retained the autonomy it had under the previous elected government! From that point on it would be up to the people to decide which way their loyalties lay. This should be done, if this is what the people of Crimea want, under the auspices of the UN and without US/EU/NATO interference. If their security was ensured they would not need any more than a police force, so yes the Militias would disarm.

But to do this you first need a truce/ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine and that is only possible if the US gives the word. I do not see how Russia can achieve a truce/ceasefire when they have very little control over the situation. All Russia could do is to invade Ukraine and separate the fighting faction’s ..... and I am sure beyond all doubt that the US would be ‘over-the Moon’ at such a move ........ but for all the wrong reasons. :roll: Putin is not stupid! 8)

Ukraine has its own territorial Integrity to consider and its own right to decide whether they want to join the EU and NATO
.
For Ukraine to join NATO would of course be contrary to previous agreements for ex-Warsaw Pact countries to remain outside of that organisation. Mind you, the US has not kept to that agreement at all so far, so I suppose they won’t this time. Ukraine joining NATO is a second cold war and another arms race. With all due respects; NATO is a US militia ..... just check out their involvement in all the recent conflicts, particularly The Balkans, ..... NATO has little to do with collective protection it is a force for carrying out acts of war on behalf of the US.

As for Ukraine becoming a member of the EU; they have to meet certain conditions just like any other applicant ..... it will take them years!

Without this, then I am not surprised that Putin's proposal is not being taken seriously by anyone and there are UN Resolutions on the matter.

There are many UN resolutions on various matters ...... I believe Israel has about 150 outstanding and it has not bothered the US one little bit that they have never complied. Strangely though, there has never even been a whisper of a suggestion to apply sanctions on Israel to ensure THEY do comply. As I said the US run a double set of standards so it is not surprising that the world is beginning to distrust their actions and blames them for most of the troubles.
The Government is not illegal. All were elected and the previous incumbent fled his post.

The government now running Ukraine was NOT elected, the ‘Ministers’ were installed by the US as the result of a US instigated coup d’etat and that makes it illegal. But once again if you are an ‘exceptional’ nation then apparently the law does not apply. As I said previously, Hitler also declared that the Germans were an exceptional Nation ........... but as he found out to his cost, there were those that disagreed! :shock:
The Russians have no right to hold this country (Ukraine) to ransom.

And exactly HOW are they doing that? If you are referring to their gas supply ......... the Ukraine hasn’t been paying for its gas for a very long time. Gasprom gave them a subsidised rate as a special customer and they then bit the hand that fed them and yet the Russians are still supplying them with gas! How long would your gas/electric supply remain connected to your house in Australia if you didn’t pay the bill? I think the Russians have shown great tolerance.
If they do not like being in Ukraine then they could always leave and go to Russia and leave the Ukrainians to their own devices.

You surprise me Paphitis! That is the response we get here from some ignorant Cypriots when you dare to complain about anything. .......... “If you don’t like it, go back where you came from!” Your credibility rating has just dropped several percentage points. :wink:

You seem to totally disregard the fact that Crimea WAS part of Russia, until Kruschev (A Ukraine by the way!!!) annexed it to Ukraine. As I have quoted Putin previously ..... ‘the people of Crimea went to bed one night as Russians and woke up in the morning to the fact they were now Ukraine’.

In my book as an autonomous region of Ukraine they would have every right to self determination, just like Scotland, and if that means they re-unite with their Russian origins as the result of a legally constituted referendum, so be it. Who are the US/EU to say otherwise?

If the US kept its nose out of the affairs of other countries and put the NATO Rottweiler back in its kennel .... this World would be a far better place! Instead of spending billions every year to propagate war we could re-allocate the money where it would make a difference to ordinary people. At the moment the only beneficiaries are the top 1% of the Planets population ..... if that .... more like the top 0.01%? :x


Well I am really sorry RH, but Ukraine can not possibly accept such terms from Russia.

It appears the only way forward is war, because let's face it, the people DO NOT have any right to determine or secend any portion of a sovereign state.

The Ukraine Military has an obligation to act in the countries interest, protect its Territorial integrity. If portions of the public are acting in a manner which is detrimental to the country itself and is collaborating with a foreign power, then they are at odds with it, which is a terrible situation. The country is at civil war and people will die and suffer.

Under such circumstances, there are only 2 options:

1) The Russian led Militias must disarm and surrender,
2) Russian Forces must withdraw from Ukrainian Territory by going back to Russia or entering their Military Bases in Crimea.

If the above does not occur, then Ukraine is at war with Russia itself and the Russian Militias and ANYONE that has involved themselves with those Militias. The situation is that simple.

Let us know if Russia is prepared to meet these terms or negotiate.

The only thing the US, EU and International Community can do is monitor the situation and hold Russia accountable for its crimes against Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. Sanctions will be enforced on Russia and their Natural Gas. They will be able to exert diplomatic pressure on Russia itself. Further action at this point, involving international military intervention might be a possibility, but it is dangerous as it could lead to all out war between Russia and the rest of NATO.

International Aid and assistance will make its way from the US and EU to Ukraine. People like you might accuse the US and EU for interfering and bribing but there is no other option as they can't turn their back on Ukraine.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Maximus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:47 pm

What if they do not?
Maximus
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:52 pm

Maximus wrote:What if they do not?


I already told you.

The Ukrainian Military is at war.

They will attack and surround certain towns and villages, attack insurgents kai Agios of Theos!
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Maximus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:54 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:What if they do not?


I already told you.

The Ukrainian Military is at war.

They will attack and surround certain towns and villages, attack insurgents kai Agios of Theos!


Have they started attacking Russia?
Maximus
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Maximus » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:07 pm

They have already attacked Russia economically, they have already attacked Russia's interests.

Your a bit yipee kie yay Paphitis,

This is what I think will happen,
The US will get a NATO base in Ukraine.
The US will get a US compliant and bribed leader in Ukraine,
The US will bond Ukraine to debt slavery.
They will depress their currency to make all their export's much cheaper.
The will sell weaponry to Ukraine to defend itself from the enemy.
Their banking system will be owned and their country restructured.
Ukraine will get over promises and under deliveries.
Maximus
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7535
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:23 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:24 pm

Maximus wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Maximus wrote:What if they do not?


I already told you.

The Ukrainian Military is at war.

They will attack and surround certain towns and villages, attack insurgents kai Agios of Theos!


Have they started attacking Russia?


Yes the Ukrainian Military has been attacking Russia and they are justified in doing so.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Ukraine - The reality of war.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:25 pm

Maximus wrote:They have already attacked Russia economically, they have already attacked Russia's interests.

Your a bit yipee kie yay Paphitis,

This is what I think will happen,
The US will get a NATO base in Ukraine.
The US will get a US compliant and bribed leader in Ukraine,
The US will bond Ukraine to debt slavery.
They will depress their currency to make all their export's much cheaper.
The will sell weaponry to Ukraine to defend itself from the enemy.
Their banking system will be owned and their country restructured.
Ukraine will get over promises and under deliveries.


I couldn't care less what you think.

It all boils down to the Territorial Integrity of Ukraine, and the Ukrainian Military have an obligation to defend the country against all enemies external and internal.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Politics and Elections

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests