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Varosha to reopen?

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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:44 pm

I think Greek speaking Cypriots realise they have alot in common with Turkish speaking Cypriots, that is the reason they have opened their gates and have provided ID cards to Turkish speaking Cyporiots and that is the reason they have accepted them as citizens of the Republic.

I think the property issue ought to be put to the side. I don't think it should be an issue. we haven't seen the properties for 40 years I don't think it should be a player in Reunification. Whilst I am attached to my grandmother's house, at the end of the day it isn't all that important. However I do believe that a property of some sort is given to my family in Xero.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:50 pm

Humanist1 wrote:I think Greek seaking Cypriots realise they have alot in common with Turkish speaking Cypriots, that is the reason they have opened their gates and have provided ID cards to Turkish speaking Cyporiots and that is the reason they have accepted them as citizens of the Republic.

I think the property issue ought to be put to the side. I don't think it should be an issue. we haven't seen the properties for 40 years I don't think it should be a player in Reunification. Whilst I am attached to my grandmother's house, at the end of the day it isn't all that important. However I do believe that a property of some sort is given to my family in Xero.


This is an ideologue, (impractical idealist)

You have just given an example of the RoC giving, the TC's taking and the GC's getting nothing in return. Not even what is rightfully theirs in the case of the displaced persons.

just as equally and rightfully. it shouldn't be an issue to give proprty back to their rightful owners.

They wont even let you go to Varosha. What kind of "compatriots" are these?
Last edited by Maximus on Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:54 pm

I don't think at this stage in the piece property should be the main deterninant for Reunification. I was giving a personbal example of not really giving a hoot. I understand others feel strongly about it. I personally rather see a Re unified Cyprus than my personal emotional attachement to a house.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:07 pm

Do you seriously believe there will be no compensation? I don't think that will come from Turkey but the ROC will compensate people.

I also disagree that it is impractical.

Whats so practocal abotu the current situation. It's been impractical for 40 years lol

In addition do you rweally believe that TC's are running the show? They are so outnumbered ... having said this individuals can take action by approaching the European Court to fight their cases aagainst Turkey and it's colonisation of the occupied area of Cyprus.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby erolz66 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:30 pm

Humanist1 wrote:I think Greek speaking Cypriots realise they have alot in common with Turkish speaking Cypriots, that is the reason they have opened their gates and have provided ID cards to Turkish speaking Cyporiots and that is the reason they have accepted them as citizens of the Republic.


You can not claim to be the sole legitimate representative government of all Cypriots if you do not provide things like ID cards to all Cypriots. The 'opening' of the green line to TC and others was a requirement of EU entry for the RoC. You can try to convince me that these actions represent clear expressions of 'good will' from the RoC government towards the TC community but I am afraid I just do not buy that. Nor is it enough for GC (or TC) to accept that they have a lot in common with TC (or GC). What is required if we are ever to find a way of creating a united Cyprus is for a majority of Cypriots to chose to believe they have more in common with such than with people who are not Cypriot.
Last edited by erolz66 on Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby erolz66 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Maximus wrote:You have just given an example of the RoC giving, the TC's taking and the GC's getting nothing in return.


What the RoC gets from providing TC with ID cards is to be able to continue to claim they are the sole legitimate government of all Cypriots. They simply would not be able to maintain this status internationally were they to refuse to give TC such things as ID cards. That is not 'nothing'. What the RoC got for 'opening' the green line to TC was EU membership. They could not have achieved EU membership without agreeing this. That is not nothing.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:43 pm

Cyprus would have gotten into the EU regardless of opening the gates of the green line.

Oh I ythink we can claim we are legitimate government.

The minute Turkish speaking Cypriot get's that id and passport they agree that the government of the RoC is a legitimate government.

So TC's need to move quickly to ensure they are not left behind. One person one vote is the best way to be full participants. If your political ideology mirrors that of constituents you will get the vote.

The world has moved a long way since 1974. So has Cyprus in the way it relates to the world.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby erolz66 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:57 pm

Humanist1 wrote:Cyprus would have gotten into the EU regardless of opening the gates of the green line.


Freedom of movement of EU citizens - one of the fundamental principles on which the EU is based.

Humanist1 wrote:Oh I ythink we can claim we are legitimate government.


You can claim anything you like but the the point is will the 'world' accept your claim. The 'power' that is gained from being the sole legitimate government is not gained from you claiming you are such, it is gained by the world recognising you as such. If you really think there is no relationship to the 'world' recognising such a status and if the RoC gives ID cards to TC or not, then your are mistaken.

Humanist1 wrote:The minute Turkish speaking Cypriot get's that id and passport they agree that the government of the RoC is a legitimate government.


The 'power' of being recognised as the sole legitimate government of all Cypriots does not derive from a TC taking an RoC ID card and thus that individual recognising that legitimacy. It derives from the rest of the world recognising that status as legitimate.

Humanist1 wrote:So TC's need to move quickly to ensure they are not left behind. One person one vote is the best way to be full participants. If your political ideology mirrors that of constituents you will get the vote.

The world has oved a long way sonce 1974.


Saying all we need is a unitary structure is just not enough. Such a unitary structure, even if there was a route to it, in an environment where the majority of Cypriots from each community chose to believe they have more in common with people who are not Cypriot than they have with Cypriots from communities other than their own can only fail. We know this or we should. History has shown this. If the 'best' you have is is 'just accept a unitary structure' even though a majority of GC (in this example) chose to believe they have more in common with a random Greek person with no connection to Cyprus than they do with a TC, then I am afraid you offer me nothing but a return to the failures of the past.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:06 pm

I'm sorry .. I believe you are driven by a separatist view point. It works in most multicultral societies I cannot see why it cannot work, in a society of just over a milion people. Goes back to what is working in Cyuprus now for either community and that is an arrogant view that there are two communities in Cyprus. The moment you believe you are different you will be treated as such.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:13 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Humanist1 wrote:I think Greek speaking Cypriots realise they have alot in common with Turkish speaking Cypriots, that is the reason they have opened their gates and have provided ID cards to Turkish speaking Cyporiots and that is the reason they have accepted them as citizens of the Republic.


You can not claim to be the sole legitimate representative government of all Cypriots if you do not provide things like ID cards to all Cypriots. The 'opening' of the green line to TC and others was a requirement of EU entry for the RoC. You can try to convince me that these actions represent clear expressions of 'good will' from the RoC government towards the TC community but I am afraid I just do not buy that. Nor is it enough for GC (or TC) to accept that they have a lot in common with TC (or GC). What is required if we are ever to find a way of creating a united Cyprus is for a majority of Cypriots to chose to believe they have more in common with such than with people who are not Cypriot.


Well, they are expressions of good will from the legitimate government.

On the other side of the green line, there are no expressions of good will for the gc’ s. Not even for their basic human rights. :roll:

I am afraid that Its tough to buy that the Tc’s are cypriots because you have to find a way to create a united Cyprus for them to fit in with the legitimate Cypriots. And that has proven to be extremely difficult to nigh impossible for what seems to be eternity.
Last edited by Maximus on Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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