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Varosha to reopen?

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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:21 pm

You have separatist approach... Waht would you need for a Greek speaking Cypriot to do tyo show you they know they have "more" in common lol. At the end of the a person on either side of the divide requit=re, a home, food, education, medical systems when needed, internet, education, car and a jo and the right to exercise their religious beliefs
Last edited by Humanist1 on Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:24 pm

Humanist1 wrote:You have separatist approach... Waht would you need for a Greek speaking Cypriot to do tyo show you they know they have "more" in common lol. At the end of the a person on either side of the divide requit=re, a home, food, education, medical systems when needed, internet, education, car and a job.


Maybe you should answer your own question and explain why the tc have a separatist approach if they are Cypriot and explain to me what the roc has in common with the TRNC.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:31 pm

Apologies to humanist if that comment wasn’t meant for me.........
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby erolz66 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:35 pm

Maximus wrote: On the other side of the green line, there are no expressions of good will for the gc’ s. Not even for their basic human rights. :roll:


Even if that were true which may or may not be the case, your argument is nothing more than two wrong make a right.

Maximus wrote: I am afraid that Its tough to buy that the Tc’s are cypriots because you have to find a way to create a united Cyprus for them to fit in with the legitimate Cypriots. And that has proven to be extremely difficult to nigh impossible for what seems to be eternity.


If we want a united Cyprus (as opposed to just one that operates with unitary structures) then we have to chose to believe that we have more in common with each other than we do with people who are not Cypriot. Not just a majority of GC have to chose to believe this, that alone is not enough. A majority of TC also have to believe this.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... tion-state

A nation is a group of people who share common cultural characteristics, typically including language, heritage, religion and world views. This is a cultural distinction and not a political one. For example, "Raider Nation" is a group of people who share a high level of support for the American football team, the Oakland Raiders.

A state is a political entity, one we would normally see as a government. State typically refers to a level of government that is sovereign or independent in it's own right. The United Nations is an organization of states.

A nation-state is when the two coincide. So a nation-state is when a group of people with a shared cultural heritage and sovereign government overlap.

One of the major causes of civil war is when two nations share a state and one of those nations decides to break off and form it's own state or when one of the nations holds power over the other and other decides to change places.Common recent examples include the break up of Yugoslavia, the Palestine/Israel conflict, The Kurds on the other hand are a nation separated into four states (Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey).


You want a unitary Cypriot state without there having to be a Cypriot nation. This just can not work. We know this. History shows this.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:39 pm

This is all well and good Erolz,

You are saying the right things (sometimes) but there is an element of unnatural-ness to it. It seems to be way to much effort that’s doesn’t yield results. At least history shows this.

What is wrong with just dismantling the trnc, reversing as much of the invasion and occupation as possible, saying sayonara to the Turkish army and joining the legitimate government of the roc as a democracy.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby erolz66 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:41 pm

Humanist1 wrote:You have separatist approach... Waht would you need for a Greek speaking Cypriot to do tyo show you they know they have "more" in common lol. At the end of the a person on either side of the divide requit=re, a home, food, education, medical systems when needed, internet, education, car and a job.


I argue that we should consider ourselves Cypriot first and Greek or Turkish (or Armenian or Maronite or whatever) second and that doing so is the only route to a a united Cyprus (nation, state and nation-state) and you say I have a separatist approach ?

Humanist1 wrote:Waht would you need for a Greek speaking Cypriot to do tyo show you they know they have "more" in common lol.


To show me they chose to believe they have more in common with me as a fellow Cypriot you mean ? Well not trying to refute the idea that such a belief has any connection with achieving a united Cyprus would be a good start ;)
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby erolz66 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:47 pm

Maximus wrote:What is wrong with just dismantling the trnc, reversing as much of the invasion as possible, saying sayonara to the Turkish army and joining the legitimate government of the roc as a democracy.


Well ignoring the practical realities as to how we might actually achieve that the 'problem' is as follows.

After all the things you list above , if we end up with a unitary structure but one where a majority of GC chose to believe they have more in common with a stranger from Greece with no connection to Cyprus than they do with a TC and a majority of TC chose to believe they have more in common with a stranger from Turkey than they do we a GC then all we have 'achieved' is

One of the major causes of civil war is when two nations share a state and one of those nations decides to break off and form it's own state or when one of the nations holds power over the other and other decides to change places.


This is what we had in 1960. It did not work. It lead to conflict, civil war (of sorts) and secession and division. Is it not time we try and learn from that ?
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:54 pm

Akinci lashes out at ‘aggressive’ Anastasiades
https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/04/10/akin ... stasiades/


...what does Mr. Akinci not get? It is simple. If he wants to reform the Constitution he can demonstrate that he is a Cypriot.

...i am left, from the day he was elected, wondering, who he has become.

Who can deny that Cypriots voted for him, and yet, since that day (and that angry phonecall), it is for "Turkishness" he speaks exclusively.

Who can forget his ridicule of Mr. Anastasiades for wearing ''two hats''. And while Mr. Anastasiades defends all Cypriots as Individuals, and as Persons he, in the negotiations also represents the island's Grecophones, Where has Mr. Akinci represented himself to Cypriots, a Cypriot, and as such, Mr. Anastasiades' equal, to Cypriots?

He is at this moment, a servant-slave, a parasite, in Erdogan's mind. He must choose.

...is he Turkish, or, a "Turk"?

He can stand beside the Flag of Cyprus. He can say for once that "Turkishness", that which has divided Cyprus for decades, is no better than the "Greekness" he abhors. Cypriots are not "Greeks", and they are not "Turks". One thing is clear, both treat this Flag equally as a rag. And if he continues with his "mentality", who is he betraying?

...i ask Mr. Akinci to remember, i ask all of us to remember, that while the "Greeks" and "Turks" were busy on their killing spree, who is it that they murdered, and made to disappear? "Greeks"? "Turks"? Each other? No, not them, but Cypriots, for "being" Cypriots; this is something to think about.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:56 pm

Erolz

It’s a circular argument isn’t it.

Then a Turk is a Turk and a Greek is a Greek.

One speaks this language, follows that religion and believes these things and the other their own.

You can’t force someone to believe what they don’t want to.

What Cyprus had in 1960 was a forced constitution that was destined, Actually set up to fail to create the present situation.

None of this changes the fact that Cyprus is occupied and the tc have a separatist approach to being Cypriot.
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Re: Varosha to reopen?

Postby Humanist1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:56 pm

"After all the things you list above , if we end up with a unitary structure but one where a majority of GC chose to believe they have more in common with a stranger from Greece with no connection to Cyprus than they do with a TC and a majority of TC chose to believe they have more in common with a stranger from Turkey than they do we a GC then all we have 'achieved' is"

Mate I think your stuchk in 1974. The majority of GC's have nothing in comon with GC's and they know that.
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