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greatest democracy on earth

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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Kikapu » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:59 pm

Lordo wrote:nobody is saying that crime will stop or even gun violence will stop if you ban guns completely. ilegal guns will always be avaialble. the point is very simple. if you banned guns and forced people to surrender them and those who do not will be sent to prison, lets see how many people have th eballs to face prison for their right.

with 359 million guns in circulation and i do not beleiev that everybody has a gun becasue those who have guns have multiple number of them, suggests that majority of us citizens do not have guns. the problem is not voting but the power nra has over mebers of both houses and the financial support they give them.

sometimes people have to sacrifice their own election with principle and continue in a principle position and sooner or later people will come around. talat did this in cyprus and eventually won and not only did he win he also turned the population to accept bbf

Lordo, I hate to repeat the NRA's slogan that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and on a philosophical level, they are right, as much as I hate the slogan.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:30 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Lordo wrote:nobody is saying that crime will stop or even gun violence will stop if you ban guns completely. ilegal guns will always be avaialble. the point is very simple. if you banned guns and forced people to surrender them and those who do not will be sent to prison, lets see how many people have th eballs to face prison for their right.

with 359 million guns in circulation and i do not beleiev that everybody has a gun becasue those who have guns have multiple number of them, suggests that majority of us citizens do not have guns. the problem is not voting but the power nra has over mebers of both houses and the financial support they give them.

sometimes people have to sacrifice their own election with principle and continue in a principle position and sooner or later people will come around. talat did this in cyprus and eventually won and not only did he win he also turned the population to accept bbf

Lordo, I hate to repeat the NRA's slogan that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and on a philosophical level, they are right, as much as I hate the slogan.

well if thats the case lets give them a few nuclear weapns each. its full shit. if you remove the guns people would not have them to kill people with.

interesting that trmpoboullo is now facing violent games for the shootings. i got news for him, the fist recorded mass shooting was in 9th april 1891. at least a few days beforethe violent games and video industry and the internet.
there have been 2,128 mass shootings since 2013, roughly one per day. now tah is an eye opener

rome wasn't built in a day. now the white supermacists have been removed from trumps friends group. nra will be next. sooner or later the situation will change. it takes one politician to stand up and say he/she will ban all weapons to the pubplic with the exception of rural areas and all those who do have them to be constantly checked for not going crazy. sooner or later it will change.

after all it wasn't that long ago that slavery was legal.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:59 pm

i wonder if anybody has explained to these good ol texan boys that we are no longer living in 1700s where we used to lynch them from the nearest tree. is there any hope for these bastards. i wonder if they ever did this a white boy, and of course they are still at their jabs right.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:09 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Lordo wrote:nobody is saying that crime will stop or even gun violence will stop if you ban guns completely. ilegal guns will always be avaialble. the point is very simple. if you banned guns and forced people to surrender them and those who do not will be sent to prison, lets see how many people have th eballs to face prison for their right.

with 359 million guns in circulation and i do not beleiev that everybody has a gun becasue those who have guns have multiple number of them, suggests that majority of us citizens do not have guns. the problem is not voting but the power nra has over mebers of both houses and the financial support they give them.

sometimes people have to sacrifice their own election with principle and continue in a principle position and sooner or later people will come around. talat did this in cyprus and eventually won and not only did he win he also turned the population to accept bbf

Lordo, I hate to repeat the NRA's slogan that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and on a philosophical level, they are right, as much as I hate the slogan.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby erolz66 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:06 am



This is just all down to what you classify as a 'mass shooting'. This report that 'debunks' the 'myth' that the US leads the world in mass shootings, provides a full list of the events that it is counting as 'mass shootings' (well done for the transparency). In that list they will have things like

"Country:Argentina, Killed:5, Wounded:4, Perpetrator: 15 year old student,Type: (blank), Information: "4 Die In Argentina School Shooting"

and things like

"Country:Afghanistan, Killed:7,Wounded: 0, Perpetrator: Taliban, Type: Terrorism, Information:" About 40 suspected Taliban fighters killed six Afghan soldiers and one Afghan driver who were working for the American aid organization, Mercy Corps, in Deshu, Afghanistan. No group claimed responsibility for the attack, but local authorities believed that the Taliban was targeting Afghans working for U.S. aid organizations."

Now for me the first incident is clearly what I imagine is a 'mass shooting' event in terms of understanding what is and is not going on in the USA. The second is not. I am not saying I am right or I have any right to be the sole person defining what a 'mass shooting event' is or is not , so that they be counted. On the list of events that the 'debunkers' provide as to what they are counting (alphabetical) I had to go through 120 or so incidents in Afghanistan, 99 in Algeria, 27 in Angola before coming across and event that for me was clearly of the type I consider to be a 'mass shooting event'. The Argentina one shown above, which is the only even listed for Argentina.

It is all down to what you count as a 'mass shooting' event.

(full list here https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/up ... 180823.pdf)
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Paphitis » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:57 am

Kikapu wrote:Unfortunately guns will always exist in the USA, because it is in the American culture and psyche to be armed, going back to the wild Wild West. There‘s no point in trying to ban guns as it won’t happen. Most American are law abiding citizens, as a such, they are allowed to have guns because the constitution says so in the 2nd Amendment, so that should there come to be a tyrannical governments in the US, it can be fought with self armed American militia groups.

All common sense approach to make gun ownership safer often is refused by the NRA, because the feeling is, once you give an inch, the government will try to take a mile. No government, no upper or lower house, governors et al will ever be able to take away guns from the people.

America is a violent Country on many levels, but not necessarily a violent society when it comes to the majority. Crime generally comes from poverty, hopelessness of prosperity , lack of education, broken family structure, street gangs with turf wars and so on. Crime will not stop even if all the guns were taken away. Of course the tourist do not see much crime, because their two weeks in the states does not bring them face to face with these problems, unless they go looking for them, in which case, they may well become a victim themselves.


That is EXACTLY the American Psyche.

they believe they have a right to possess and bear arms as law abiding citizens. they also have a massive mistrust of big Government and actually fear that one day they will be required to fight against a tyrannical US Government. They have already had one civil way against slavery and colonial influence.

The Constitution actually mentions the right of the American to form militias against oppression and adversity. They will not allow that to be removed. They actually believe that disarming the population is the first step towards tyranny.

In Australia, when the tightened Gun Control, gun crime actually increased.

Kikapu,

you are right in that America may have considerable crime but it is still a highly developed society that ranks highly on the HDI scales.

One thing the Yanks have going for them that the rest of the world DO NOT. I have been privileged to have worked with many Americans to this day. Over the years I have noticed one thing about them. They are nice people. Much nicer than Australians in my opinion. Much nicer than Europeans. And yes, you would shoot some if you could but the Yanks are pretty cool. Right now, America is looking very inviting to me.

I can't put my finger on it, but Americans are very easy people to work with. Not just by a small amount. they are just much nicer to work with than any Aussie, or European. And they are professional.

But they won't surrender their guns. That much is VERY clear! :shock:

My best work mate (a Texan through and through) told me that guns actually control crime to a point. In America, if you burglar, it's like playing Russian Roulette because chances are you would eventually get shot. Americans have the right to defend their property and homes. You can shoot a thief and the courts will not convict you.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby cyprusgrump » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:54 am

Kikapu wrote:Unfortunately guns will always exist in the USA, because it is in the American culture and psyche to be armed, going back to the wild Wild West. There‘s no point in trying to ban guns as it won’t happen. Most American are law abiding citizens, as a such, they are allowed to have guns because the constitution says so in the 2nd Amendment, so that should there come to be a tyrannical governments in the US, it can be fought with self armed American militia groups.

All common sense approach to make gun ownership safer often is refused by the NRA, because the feeling is, once you give an inch, the government will try to take a mile. No government, no upper or lower house, governors et al will ever be able to take away guns from the people.

America is a violent Country on many levels, but not necessarily a violent society when it comes to the majority. Crime generally comes from poverty, hopelessness of prosperity , lack of education, broken family structure, street gangs with turf wars and so on. Crime will not stop even if all the guns were taken away. Of course the tourist do not see much crime, because their two weeks in the states does not bring them face to face with these problems, unless they go looking for them, in which case, they may well become a victim themselves.


This is an excellent point IMHO!

We know that the ratchet of control only goes one way, any concession by the NRA would only result in new demands...
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Londonrake » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:31 am

Although the buck stops - it’s more down to Mitch McConnell than Trump. He’s the Senate Majority Leader and basically the man who decides what gets voted on. Gun control rarely makes it onto the floor.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby Lordo » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:01 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Unfortunately guns will always exist in the USA, because it is in the American culture and psyche to be armed, going back to the wild Wild West. There‘s no point in trying to ban guns as it won’t happen. Most American are law abiding citizens, as a such, they are allowed to have guns because the constitution says so in the 2nd Amendment, so that should there come to be a tyrannical governments in the US, it can be fought with self armed American militia groups.

All common sense approach to make gun ownership safer often is refused by the NRA, because the feeling is, once you give an inch, the government will try to take a mile. No government, no upper or lower house, governors et al will ever be able to take away guns from the people.

America is a violent Country on many levels, but not necessarily a violent society when it comes to the majority. Crime generally comes from poverty, hopelessness of prosperity , lack of education, broken family structure, street gangs with turf wars and so on. Crime will not stop even if all the guns were taken away. Of course the tourist do not see much crime, because their two weeks in the states does not bring them face to face with these problems, unless they go looking for them, in which case, they may well become a victim themselves.


This is an excellent point IMHO!

We know that the ratchet of control only goes one way, any concession by the NRA would only result in new demands...


no no no there is only one demand.

remove allguns from the cities. in the country side people will be able to have a normal shot gun for what ever reason but no pump action. there are no other demands. and it wil happen just as sure as day follows night.
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Re: greatest democracy on earth

Postby cyprusgrump » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Lordo wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Unfortunately guns will always exist in the USA, because it is in the American culture and psyche to be armed, going back to the wild Wild West. There‘s no point in trying to ban guns as it won’t happen. Most American are law abiding citizens, as a such, they are allowed to have guns because the constitution says so in the 2nd Amendment, so that should there come to be a tyrannical governments in the US, it can be fought with self armed American militia groups.

All common sense approach to make gun ownership safer often is refused by the NRA, because the feeling is, once you give an inch, the government will try to take a mile. No government, no upper or lower house, governors et al will ever be able to take away guns from the people.

America is a violent Country on many levels, but not necessarily a violent society when it comes to the majority. Crime generally comes from poverty, hopelessness of prosperity , lack of education, broken family structure, street gangs with turf wars and so on. Crime will not stop even if all the guns were taken away. Of course the tourist do not see much crime, because their two weeks in the states does not bring them face to face with these problems, unless they go looking for them, in which case, they may well become a victim themselves.


This is an excellent point IMHO!

We know that the ratchet of control only goes one way, any concession by the NRA would only result in new demands...


no no no there is only one demand.

remove allguns from the cities. in the country side people will be able to have a normal shot gun for what ever reason but no pump action. there are no other demands. and it wil happen just as sure as day follows night.



That ain't happening! :lol:
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