Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

It is a singular example that shows your original position that no one in the UK has to struggle to meet basic needs like putting food on the table is a fallacy.

Well done for avoiding my question...

Really, on what planet would you expect to be able to live a 'normal' life under those circumstances...?

But seriously, what do you think the government's (read taxpayer's) responsibility should be towards a couple who jointly work just seven hours a week and not at all during school holidays...?

They'll already get housing benefit, child benefit, etc. Do you think it would be unreasonable for the father to get an extra job, a few hours at McDonald's perhaps...?

I mean, what if we all decided to work seven hours a week and have school holidays off...?

I see the case study is from an Oxfam publication (no surprise there ) titled, "Below The Breadline - The Relentless Rise of Food Poverty in Britain". Isn't it telling that the worst case study they could come up with is a couple that have a child and basically can't be arsed to work...?

[cyprusgrump]

Actually it is. You 'guess' that they planned to have a child. You can not know that.

Don't be ridiculous Erolz...

You're telling me that between them they were not aware of nor had access to contraception...?

[erolz66]

Actually it is. You 'guess' that they planned to have a child. You can not know that.

Don't be ridiculous Erolz...

You're telling me that between them they were not aware of nor had access to contraception...?

Are you telling me you have never heard of a couple using contraception and still ending up with a pregnancy ? My own parents were using contraception when I was conceived an IUD. It did not work. I have spent my entire life actively seeking to not impregnate anyone, yet accidents happen.

Your narrative, the narrative required by the conclusion you want to reach, is they sat down as a couple and made an active decision to have a child and did so on the basis that someone else would pay for the support of that child. The possibility that they were just a young couple that had not even thought about having children at all who one day just discovered they had conceived is not one you entertain because that does not lead to the conclusion you want to reach.

Isn't it telling that the worst case study they could come up with is a couple that have a child and basically can't be arsed to work...?

Again just assumption on your part. How do you know this is the "worst case study" they could find ? Maybe the use it because it is an 'average' and 'typical' example and not the single most extreme ? This happens all the time. I have personal experience of this where I go out of my way to provide evidence or an example that is not biased, not an outlier, not and extreme only to be met with 'is that the best / worst' you can show.

[erolz66]

that is quite paradoxical.

And therein could be the answer.

Interesting. I will need some time to let these ideas / suggestion brew and percolate a bit in my head I think but thanks for the input.

[cyprusgrump]

Are you telling me you have never heard of a couple using contraception and still ending up with a pregnancy ?

Are you telling me you've never heard of 'The Morning After' pill...?

[erolz66]

Are you telling me you have never heard of a couple using contraception and still ending up with a pregnancy ?

Are you telling me you've never heard of 'The Morning After' pill...?

Yawn.

You started with a claim that no one in the UK had to struggle just to put food on the table on a daily basis (no poverty in the UK only relative poverty). You then conceded that there is such poverty in the UK but that it affect a minuscule number of people. You asked for numbers. Pyrpolizer provided a report that put the number at 8.4 million people. You have ignored that totally to date and instead chosen to use your time posting here, that you do not waste but claim others do, going down this ridiculous rabbit hole based on a singular example of the thing you said did not exist and talking about morning after pills. This is why I said when you first conceded that such poverty does exist in the UK that "I have little interest personally in arguing / discussing with you here what the degree of this poverty is in the UK".

[cyprusgrump]

Are you telling me you have never heard of a couple using contraception and still ending up with a pregnancy ?

Are you telling me you've never heard of 'The Morning After' pill...?

Yawn.

You started with a claim that no one in the UK had to struggle just to put food on the table on a daily basis (no poverty in the UK only relative poverty). You then conceded that there is such poverty in the UK but that it affect a minuscule number of people. You asked for numbers. Pyrpolizer provided a report that put the number at 8.4 million people. You have ignored that totally to date and instead chosen to use your time posting here, that you do not waste but claim others do, going down this ridiculous rabbit hole based on a singular example of the thing you said did not exist and talking about morning after pills. This is why I said when you first conceded that such poverty does exist in the UK that "I have little interest personally in arguing / discussing with you here what the degree of this poverty is in the UK".

You have no interest in discussing subjects for which you cannot provide credible answers Erolz...

Regardless of the circumstances by which the baby was conceived, the fact is that this couple - held up as an example of how terrible poverty is by Oxfam no less - are in a situation which is entirely of their own making. Yet, they expect hard-working taxpayers to put their hands in their pockets and shower money on them, as apparently do you and Bore-Dough...

The fact that Oxfam holds them up as an example of how terrible poverty is in the UK proves my initial claim. There simply aren't millions of people living in anything other than 'Relative Poverty'...

i asked you earlier, what do you think the solution is to this situation where the father is apparently too lazy to find work during school holidays? Just shower them with cash...?

[Paphitis]

so what is the solution?

The solution is controlled and reduced immigration.

For those in the UK, the solution is hard work. No one is owed a thing.

Citizens in the UK are fortunate enough to be living in one of the most prosperous Nations on the planet with low unemployment and a great NHS.

People are able to better themselves, or start up a small business. If migrants can do this with English as their second language then anyone can do it but sadly people feel entitled rather than being proactive and rolling up their sleeves.

It’s not easy and it never was meant to be. But it is a land of opportunity.

[erolz66]

You have no interest in discussing subjects for which you cannot provide credible answers Erolz...

Patent nonsense. There are limits to how much even I can be bothered with your constant shifting of the goalposts every time you are shown to have been wrong.

Regardless of the circumstances by which the baby was conceived,

Now it is regardless of the circumstances , from you starting with no such poverty exists, then to they actively chose to have a child on the basis the state would pay, to regardless

the fact is that this couple - held up as an example of how terrible poverty is by Oxfam no less -

You remind me of the joke 'how can you tell when a politician is lying'. How can you tell when CG is offering a pejorative one sided partial biased characterization of something ? When he posts.

are in a situation which is entirely of their own making. Yet, they expect hard-working taxpayers to put their hands in their pockets and shower money on them, as apparently do you and Bore-Dough...

I do not consider the state seeking to ensure that no one in a country as rich nationally as the UK has to go without something as basic food and no matter how lazy that person may be as 'showering them with money'. Showering them with money would be the state providing them with a house complete with basement private cinema they could then leave empty and unused whilst they lived in a second house provided to them. That I would consider to be 'showering them with money'.

The fact that Oxfam holds them up as an example of how terrible poverty is in the UK proves my initial claim.

Just because you can not conceive of giving an example to make a point that is not the single most extreme, atypical example possible to find that does not mean that everyone else behaves this way. That is just projection. You claim they hold them up as an example of how terrible poverty in the UK is. You offer no evidence for this claim other than that is what you would do. They maybe be held up as an example of how 'ordinary' food poverty is not, not just at the extremes but generally. Not something that even enters your head as a possibility apparently. As ever your are your own proof for anything and everything you want to believe as far as I can tell.

There simply aren't millions of people living in anything other than 'Relative Poverty'...

So you claim, though your initial claim was there were zero such people. Believe what you like. For me in terms of who is more credible between a non profit organisation with bias and an agenda that has done work and study and surveys and analysis and produced reports that are publicly available and a single individual like you with bias and an agenda just declaring by fiat there are not millions living in degrees of absolute poverty in the UK, I know which I consider more credible and more likely to be closer to any sort of 'truth'.

i asked you earlier, what do you think the solution is to this situation where the father is apparently too lazy to find work during school holidays? Just shower them with cash...?

I think the solution is more likely to be found in asking why employment opportunities for someone like this are so different from say those open to a 16 year old coming out of a public school with exactly same abilities and skills than it is to be found in just labeling them as poor because they are lazy and the corollary narrative that those who rich merely as a result of their hard work and effort.

[Paphitis]

When you see migrants come to our countries with the shirts on their backs and end up working on a garbage run and then manage to get 3 rentals, then that tells you everything you need to know about the UK.

You can’t do that in most countries but in the UK, USA, Australia or Canada, you can do anything.

Those who get left behind have themselves to blame for not seeing the opportunities before them. For not taking a punt and having a go. For not going to school or learning a trade or starting a business whether that be buying a truck and being a removalist or a garbage truck or buying a fruit and veg shop.

Not everyone is going to be a Banking executive but there are many ways to make money and even make more money than executives do.

Recently I hired a removalist for an intra state removal. I paid $7500 for a truck. The truck owner operators were 2 Afghan brothers that have been in the country for 2 years. Great guys and hard working and both with families.

They told me they do 2 such trips per week or 4 across the border at 7.5 k each time. Turnover $22k per week. Minus expenses and running costs plus wages.

No shame in hard work and what counts is the cash you make and these guys are making more than a surgeon. These are the kinds of opportunities available.

But people will say they don’t have the cash to buy a truck. Well start thinking out of the box. Set up a Pty Ltd and form a business plan then see the Banks for a loan. The Banks are eager to lend the money as long as you have done your homework and present a reasonable business case to them and are willing to put down a small deposit. Sometimes they don’t even do that and there are low doc lending options too. Banks in the UK are easy to approach and do business with not like Cypriot Banks which have gone all stupid and an impediment to business.!

I would rather live in the UK than I would Cyprus if making money was my goal.