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...a History question.

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Re: ...a History question.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:24 pm

erolz66 wrote:IMO Paphitis you are clearly unable to see the wood from the trees or differentiate your arse from your elbow. You simply lack the intellectual tools to be able to do so.

Paphitis wrote:I know they are doing their very best. Can't ask for more.


Using only a data driven approach and using THE chart that ask the single most important first order priority question - does the data show a given country by it's actions or lack of them to date broken has the exponential curve or not, any country that shows it has yet to do so and is not aggressively seeking to emulate the one country that the data shows has done, has not and is not yet 'doing the best that can be done' and not only can we ask for more we should on mass be demanding they do so. This is as true for Germany as it is for any other country including the US.

Keep insisting that those countries you 'like' with leaders 'you like' have and are doing the very best that can be done in defiance of the data, the data that matters most on the question that matters most, if you like. It might make you feel better but it will not save any more lives that could be saved or limit damage to economies local and global that could be reduced.


What you have tried to do is what a lot of trump critics try and do and that is to single out the USA when there are dozens of countries in the same boat and many countries that are in a worse position than them.

If that is the game you would like to play, then surely, the first countries to be singled out are the many EU countries plus Switzerland which are on a different level to the US. The US is by far not the worst.

In addition to that, they have hardly been idle and their focus, like Australia and Singapore, is for the children to still go to school and workers who have a job to still go to work. The aim here is so that the country can stay alive. that our emergency services, nurses and doctors can still go to work. That is what so many countries are ignoring.

Australia has a very similar approach to the USA, and they are starting to come off the exponential curve. Why? No one really knows why Australia is headed in the right direction and Europe plus USA are going ballistic.

In fact, no one has ever been able to make any correlation between introduced measures and the detection rate. Italy and Spain have by far the most draconian measures, and they are ballistic. Australia and US have moderate measures, one is falling away from the curve and the Americans are still on it. Cyprus has more stringent measures than both Australia and USA at present. These our deliberate policy decisions made by our elected Governments who have explained clearly to all citizens to calm down and to think very carefully when they talk about a complete shut down because they do not believe that is the answer because after its all done, there will be no jobs for anyone.

But to say Trump has been inactive is not true. Just yesterday, he announced a 3.3 trillion Dollar stimulus package.

In the end, everyone is going to be relying on the US for the vaccine, which they will provide to everyone, including Iran and China. That is the kind of country the US is. They will never deny anyone to the right to life or attempt to hold this kind of thing over even their worst enemy.

And Trump is set for another 4 years. Isn't that nice? :D
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Re: ...a History question.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:13 pm

Paphitis wrote:What you have tried to do is what a lot of trump critics try and do and that is to single out the USA when there are dozens of countries in the same boat and many countries that are in a worse position than them.


You have it ass about tit as is so often the case with you. My argument and clarity of insight resulting from the video RW posted has been that any and every country (China excepted) that the data in THE chart shows has not broken from the exponential curve needs to rapidly and aggressively start emulating those things that SK has and is doing and stop doing those things that it has not and is not doing. The only reason certain places are being 'singled out' is entirely a result of your insistence that certain countries YOU single out are beyond any possible reproach in terms of their response to date and going forward - the US, the UK, Australia. You are the one singling out not me.

Paphitis wrote:If that is the game you would like to play, then surely, the first countries to be singled out are the many EU countries plus Switzerland which are on a different level to the US. The US is by far not the worst.


The data on THE chart shows that this is a close to binary as these things get. The data shows a given country either has broken out of the exponential or it has not. On this metric, the single most important first order priority metric that there is, there is no difference significant material at all between the US and Switzerland. (actualy Switzerland might just be showing a tiny movement away from the exponential line but its minimal and tiny). That is the point.

Paphitis wrote:In addition to that, they have hardly been idle and their focus, like Australia and Singapore, is for the children to still go to school and workers who have a job to still go to work. The aim here is so that the country can stay alive. that our emergency services, nurses and doctors can still go to work. That is what so many countries are ignoring.


Talk about moving goalposts. Who has said anything about countries being 'idle'. We are talking about, should be talking about, which countries as shown by the data in THE chart show they have broken from the exponential line and which have not.

Failure to break away from this curve or worse still to ignore the data entirely and the importance of this first order priority objective to do so can only lead to the impact on children education, on the economy local and global and a host of other things being worse than if you do manage to achieve breaking from the exponential.

Paphitis wrote:Australia has a very similar approach to the USA, and they are starting to come off the exponential curve. Why? No one really knows why Australia is headed in the right direction and Europe plus USA are going ballistic.


On THE chart the difference between Australia and the US, in terms of how much the data shows they have broken off the curve, is minuscule and whilst there is some recent movement of Australia vs US, it is so far tiny and LESS than European countries like Switzerland, Germany and Greece. Just go and look for yourself https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/

Paphitis wrote:But to say Trump has been inactive is not true. Just yesterday, he announced a 3.3 trillion Dollar stimulus package.


Where do I say he has been inactive ? You imagine that is what I am saying because you can not see the world outside of the false non real binary dichotomy of you are either for Trump 100% or against him 100%. The first order highest priority question is which measure does the data show have been effective in moving a country off the exponential line and which are not. That is the question I am asking. In terms of that question, that vital question, that highest order highest priority question, how much economic stimulus a country has pumped in is simply irrelevant. What is more is that if you do not get off the exponential, then no amount of stimulus can or will revive the economy any sooner than if you did nothing at all to get off the exponential curve.

Paphitis wrote:In the end, everyone is going to be relying on the US for the vaccine, which they will provide to everyone, including Iran and China. That is the kind of country the US is. They will never deny anyone to the right to life or attempt to hold this kind of thing over even their worst enemy.


More nonsense without evidence.

Paphitis wrote:And Trump is set for another 4 years. Isn't that nice? :D


and you said a mere few post ago

Paphitis wrote:I don't do politicized[sic]


Which just shows what a twat you really are at times. A lot of the time.
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Re: ...a History question.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:15 pm

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Re: ...a History question.

Postby Paphitis » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:34 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:What you have tried to do is what a lot of trump critics try and do and that is to single out the USA when there are dozens of countries in the same boat and many countries that are in a worse position than them.


You have it ass about tit as is so often the case with you. My argument and clarity of insight resulting from the video RW posted has been that any and every country (China excepted) that the data in THE chart shows has not broken from the exponential curve needs to rapidly and aggressively start emulating those things that SK has and is doing and stop doing those things that it has not and is not doing. The only reason certain places are being 'singled out' is entirely a result of your insistence that certain countries YOU single out are beyond any possible reproach in terms of their response to date and going forward - the US, the UK, Australia. You are the one singling out not me.

Paphitis wrote:If that is the game you would like to play, then surely, the first countries to be singled out are the many EU countries plus Switzerland which are on a different level to the US. The US is by far not the worst.


The data on THE chart shows that this is a close to binary as these things get. The data shows a given country either has broken out of the exponential or it has not. On this metric, the single most important first order priority metric that there is, there is no difference significant material at all between the US and Switzerland. (actualy Switzerland might just be showing a tiny movement away from the exponential line but its minimal and tiny). That is the point.

Paphitis wrote:In addition to that, they have hardly been idle and their focus, like Australia and Singapore, is for the children to still go to school and workers who have a job to still go to work. The aim here is so that the country can stay alive. that our emergency services, nurses and doctors can still go to work. That is what so many countries are ignoring.


Talk about moving goalposts. Who has said anything about countries being 'idle'. We are talking about, should be talking about, which countries as shown by the data in THE chart show they have broken from the exponential line and which have not.

Failure to break away from this curve or worse still to ignore the data entirely and the importance of this first order priority objective to do so can only lead to the impact on children education, on the economy local and global and a host of other things being worse than if you do manage to achieve breaking from the exponential.

Paphitis wrote:Australia has a very similar approach to the USA, and they are starting to come off the exponential curve. Why? No one really knows why Australia is headed in the right direction and Europe plus USA are going ballistic.


On THE chart the difference between Australia and the US, in terms of how much the data shows they have broken off the curve, is minuscule and whilst there is some recent movement of Australia vs US, it is so far tiny and LESS than European countries like Switzerland, Germany and Greece. Just go and look for yourself https://aatishb.com/covidtrends/

Paphitis wrote:But to say Trump has been inactive is not true. Just yesterday, he announced a 3.3 trillion Dollar stimulus package.


Where do I say he has been inactive ? You imagine that is what I am saying because you can not see the world outside of the false non real binary dichotomy of you are either for Trump 100% or against him 100%. The first order highest priority question is which measure does the data show have been effective in moving a country off the exponential line and which are not. That is the question I am asking. In terms of that question, that vital question, that highest order highest priority question, how much economic stimulus a country has pumped in is simply irrelevant. What is more is that if you do not get off the exponential, then no amount of stimulus can or will revive the economy any sooner than if you did nothing at all to get off the exponential curve.

Paphitis wrote:In the end, everyone is going to be relying on the US for the vaccine, which they will provide to everyone, including Iran and China. That is the kind of country the US is. They will never deny anyone to the right to life or attempt to hold this kind of thing over even their worst enemy.


More nonsense without evidence.

Paphitis wrote:And Trump is set for another 4 years. Isn't that nice? :D


and you said a mere few post ago

Paphitis wrote:I don't do politicized[sic]


Which just shows what a twat you really are at times. A lot of the time.


You are making an assumption that all the measures South Korea introduced will work in Europe, US and Australia. That is a very big assumption. Firstly, Koreans are a very disciplined and regimented people. Europeans, Americans and Australians not so much as them.

They are also better prepared than any country to deal with this because they have seen this twice before.

In addition, I must repeat, I have no issue at all with the video or the data. I believe the cideo is correct and I have an understanding of exponential growth. You mentioned me and my so called alternate sources. The irony here is that my alternate sources were harping on about exponential growth weeks beforehand.

Your graph is slighty outdated too and the scale is wrong because Australia has broken away from the curve. I have posted proof of that on several occasions but you choose to ignore that proof.

here it is again. It clearly shows that Australia is currently not exponential. Scroll down and look at the Daily new cases graph. Our daily new cases have literally halved,

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... australia/

You were not talking about which countries have not done enough. You made an accusation that Trump was not doing enough but you mentioned no other countries. You can not expect all of us to be a South Korea. It isn't that simple. We have a different approach which we believe is in the best interests of our people, especially our next generations. We are not prepared to scorch and burn our economy completely or believe we will avoid people dieing if we did that. We are perfectly ok if a few thousand old people die. We would obviously rather they don't die and have told all over 70s to isolate and only get out of their houses for essentials. They are our most vulnerable but what we also want to do and think is important is to preserve our economy. Long after the China Virus, the State will have to provide for many unemployed, and we need to have our children educated, and working. We don't want to condemn them to a life of struggle because we stuffed things up.

The difference between Australia and the US at this point in time isn't miniscule. Australia is headed in the right direction and has slashed detections by half, The US has been detecting more China Virus each and every day. THAT IS WHAT YOU IGNORE!

Here is that link again.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... australia/

Look at the Daily new cases graph. Do you see the reduction or are you blind?

Nope, I can fully see where you are going with it. You singled out Trump like so many. You have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

The nonsense from you just never ceases to amaze me.
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Re: ...a History question.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:09 pm

Paphitis wrote:You are making an assumption that all the measures South Korea introduced will work in Europe, US and Australia. That is a very big assumption. Firstly, Koreans are a very disciplined and regimented people. Europeans, Americans and Australians not so much as them.


No I have been saying when the data we do have, however limited, shows that SK is the only country (china excepted) to date to have made a serious impact on moving from the exponential, as it does when analysing it as per the RW video, then we should be focusing much of our debate (here, in the press, MSM and other, everywhere) on looking at SK as a model for what works and what does not work. As far as I can see you prefer to spend most of your time telling us how great Trump, the USA, Johnson and Australia are and why we do NOT need to spend time and effort looking at SK.

Paphitis wrote:They are also better prepared than any country to deal with this because they have seen this twice before.


Even more reason to do the above.

Paphitis wrote:In addition, I must repeat, I have no issue at all with the video or the data. I believe the cideo is correct and I have an understanding of exponential growth. You mentioned me and my so called alternate sources. The irony here is that my alternate sources were harping on about exponential growth weeks beforehand.


Yes you keep saying that you agree with the video and knew it all anyway before seeing it, yet you keep proving that you do not when you make claims that the opposite of what this analysis shows, like Singapore is a model to follow because they have also broken from the curve, and ignore that the video analysis does NOT show the recent last 4 day stats in Oz as breaking the curveyet, as all explained why in the video itself, whilst insisting that your analysis does show this.

Paphitis wrote:Your graph is slighty outdated too and the scale is wrong because Australia has broken away from the curve. I have posted proof of that on several occasions but you choose to ignore that proof.


'My' graph IS the analysis of data from the video , that you say you have no issue with and that you say is correct and that you understand. :roll:

Paphitis wrote:here it is again. It clearly shows that Australia is currently not exponential. Scroll down and look at the Daily new cases graph. Our daily new cases have literally halved,


As you said yourself initially MAYBE this is the start of an ongoing trend that will represent breaking from the curve. MAYBE. The video analysis clearly shows that in that analysis it is NOT yet sufficient to show that.

Paphitis wrote:You were not talking about which countries have not done enough.


I have been talking about the analysis described in RW video because it is IMPORTANT and doing so in the face of your constant attempts to obfuscate and bury what it ACTUALLY shows in favour of your own 'analysis' that shows USA is good, UK is good, Aus is good blah blah blah.

Paphitis wrote: You made an accusation that Trump was not doing enough but you mentioned no other countries.


So you claim. Can you actually quote where I did this since RW posted the youtube video ? I will give you a clue -no you can not.

Paphitis wrote: You can not expect all of us to be a South Korea.


In the face of the best clearest analysis of data I have ever seen in terms of which countries have and have not broken from the curve according to that analysis , that shows SK (china excepted) is the only country to date to have made significant gains it would be complete and utter sheer madness to not start talking about SK, what they have done and are doing, what they have not done and are not doing and compare that with other places.

Paphitis wrote: The difference between Australia and the US at this point in time isn't miniscule.


It is IF you place any value and store on the analysis of the data as explained in detail in the video and accessible to anyone via the link given.

Paphitis wrote: Nope, I can fully see where you are going with it. You singled out Trump like so many. You have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

The nonsense from you just never ceases to amaze me.


All I see is your 'arse from elbow' syndrome, something you have displayed here on this forum from long long long before anyone even mentioned Trump as president.
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Re: ...a History question.

Postby erolz66 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:51 am

Paphitis wrote: Spanish Flu (is that racist?),


How did the 1918 flu pandemic become known as 'Spanish Flu' ?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact ... 895617001/

Though it is difficult to determine from the historical record where the 1918 flu virus originated and how it spread across the globe, the origins of its common name are not in doubt. The Spanish press, being those most likely to report on the virus and its spread, also gave the false impression at the time that the disease originated there.

The name “Spanish flu” has accompanied the 1918 pandemic ever since, largely because other countries were unwilling or uninterested in reporting on the outbreak within their own borders. We rate this claim TRUE, based on our research.
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Re: ...a History question.

Postby Londonrake » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:14 am

My maternal Grandmother lost 3 of her 13 ( :shock: ) children to that. Twin baby girls and another pre-teen Daughter. Unlike Corona I believe Spanish flu predominantly killed young people. It caused a heightened reaction in their more efficient immune systems, which often proved fatal.
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Re: ...a History question.

Postby erolz66 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:28 am

My point was / is

Why was the 1918 pandemic called Spanish Flu ? The answer is - politics.
Why does Trump and Paphitis and others chose to call this pandemic Chinese Flu. The answer is the same - politics. They do this even as they criticise others for politicising the pandemic.
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