The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Boeing 737 MAX+

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:36 am

Kikapu wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:Dubai Air Show; list of aircraft present:

https://www.dubaiairshow.aero/aircraft-list

I didn’t know that Boeing is already out of business! :wink:
Hardly any representation by Boeing at this airshow. :?


Many of the big guns are not there.

Lockheed Martin are not there and the same with General Dynamics.

I know Boeing a running against the clock to announce the 797 and they want to do that in Paris.

That is the so called single pilot airliner which will be illegal to operate as Single Pilot.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27414
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:54 am

Things go wrong in aviation all the time.

We had a hairline fracture discovered in one of our aircraft during a routine spar inspection as part of the mandatory cyclic maintenance program.

The aircraft was repaired. I had to fly it recently.

Fractures occur in all aircraft and we have all travelled in aircraft that have had them.

During the last week I had a tyre blow out when landing in Canberra. There was a 25 knot crosswind from the right and the outermost tyre of the right bogey just melted. It was the wheel that touched first in a text book crosswind landing which was near perfect. The crosswind was barely within the aircraft’s demonstrated crosswind limit.

Not all our landings are perfect. We get it wrong sometimes and I have done some rippers in my time. I have also had blow outs before as well but this one was unusual.

The very next day, with a different crew but same aircraft type, we had another blow out but this time there was no crosswind at all. So a full investigation is underway. We haven’t had a blow out in 10 years on this type and all of a sudden 2 in 2 days.

Oh well. It’s all good fun. :D
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27414
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:36 pm

Paphitis wrote:During the last week I had a tyre blow out when landing in Canberra. There was a 25 knot crosswind from the right and the outermost tyre of the right bogey just melted. It was the wheel that touched first in a text book crosswind landing which was near perfect. The crosswind was barely within the aircraft’s demonstrated crosswind limit. D

Is that because you kept the right rudder just a little bit too long while crabbing into the wind and slightly turning to the right to try to keep the wings level, causing in making a hard landing on the outside right wheel of the main landing gear causing the blow-out? Had you eased up on the right rudder just before landing so to align the aircraft straight on the enter line, you would have landed on all the wheels of the main landing gear and perhaps avoiding a blow-out, no?

Just thinking out loud, that’s all!
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 15293
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:22 am

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:During the last week I had a tyre blow out when landing in Canberra. There was a 25 knot crosswind from the right and the outermost tyre of the right bogey just melted. It was the wheel that touched first in a text book crosswind landing which was near perfect. The crosswind was barely within the aircraft’s demonstrated crosswind limit. D

Is that because you kept the right rudder just a little bit too long while crabbing into the wind and slightly turning to the right to try to keep the wings level, causing in making a hard landing on the outside right wheel of the main landing gear causing the blow-out? Had you eased up on the right rudder just before landing so to align the aircraft straight on the enter line, you would have landed on all the wheels of the main landing gear and perhaps avoiding a blow-out, no?

Just thinking out loud, that’s all!


There was no hard landing. Outer tyre of the right bogey touched first, then the inner tyre and maybe a second later, the left bogey touched, then the nose wheel a couple of seconds after that.

We had to make a safety report, and all crew rated the landing as pretty much a perfect text book cross wind landing. Yes we had to crab in with into wind drift. Winds on short final were about 50 knots from the right. Over the piano keys, the aircraft was straightened with left rudder, then right aileron was used to keep the aircraft straight because of the cross wind and then slightly more aileron to dip the right wing down slightly so that the right bogey will touch first. No braking at all at this point. Touch Down was at the Touch Down Marker 300 m after the piano keys where the PAPI lights are and near the ILS Mast where the Glide Slope aims us.

Once the right bogey touched, the right aileron was reduced resulted in left bogey touching. Still no braking.

Nose wheel was held off for a bit then lowered. Once aircraft was on the runway and stable, reverse thrust was applied to slow down to then braking.

The landing was a good landing and the FO even said "how the hell did you do that?"

Then when we walked around, we saw the damage and were scratching our heads.

They are still investigating but in light of the second incident the very next day, this time on a calm day with only a slight headwind. they are leaning towards some kind of mechanical failure in both scenarios with the cross wind being a factor in my blow out simply because there was a cross wind and they can't rule out a wheel lock up.

The point is, Aviation never ceases to amaze me. just when you think you have seen it all and there is nothing that can surprise you, something like 2 blow outs occur in 2 days. The statistics on that are amazing.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27414
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Londonrake » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:54 am

Boeing to temporarily halt 737 Max production in January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

.
Londonrake
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2492
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:19 pm
Location: ROC

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:58 am

Londonrake wrote:Boeing to temporarily halt 737 Max production in January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

.


About 6 months ago I had told a member in a PM ( no, it wasn’t Paphitis) that “the MAX has haded”.

Boeing has only one chance to get the MAX right for it to return back to the air because the whole company’s future rides on it. It will take just one more MAX crash after if and when it returned back to service, regardless of the cause, and Boeing would be finished as a brand. His is a very huge risk for Boeing to take and for the regulators. Time has come for Boeing to put the MAX to bed and build planes that the pilots can have control of the aircraft when needed and not for the pilots to have struggles with such devices like the MCAS. Now there are about 800 MAX’s on the ground. Half have flown and the other half still have a zero on the odometer. At this time, best thing Boeing can do with them after they take out the MCAS from each one of them, is to replace the present engines with the old NG engines so that they are fitted where they supposed to be and sell them off in a fire sale to budget airlines, or, design a new powerful engines for them that the MAX can fly safely.

It’s a shame really, because the MAX is the most beautiful passenger plane to look at of all other passenger planes, except for the retired Concord, of course.
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 15293
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:17 am

Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:Boeing to temporarily halt 737 Max production in January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

.


About 6 months ago I had told a member in a PM ( no, it wasn’t Paphitis) that “the MAX has haded”.

Boeing has only one chance to get the MAX right for it to return back to the air because the whole company’s future rides on it. It will take just one more MAX crash after if and when it returned back to service, regardless of the cause, and Boeing would be finished as a brand. His is a very huge risk for Boeing to take and for the regulators. Time has come for Boeing to put the MAX to bed and build planes that the pilots can have control of the aircraft when needed and not for the pilots to have struggles with such devices like the MCAS. Now there are about 800 MAX’s on the ground. Half have flown and the other half still have a zero on the odometer. At this time, best thing Boeing can do with them after they take out the MCAS from each one of them, is to replace the present engines with the old NG engines so that they are fitted where they supposed to be and sell them off in a fire sale to budget airlines, or, design a new powerful engines for them that the MAX can fly safely.

It’s a shame really, because the MAX is the most beautiful passenger plane to look at of all other passenger planes, except for the retired Concord, of course.


Erm, Boeing's future doesn't ride on it at all.

They are too big and very good at what they do as I firmly believe they make the best aircraft in the world. better than Airbus in my opinion and in the opinion of most professional's in the industry, in particular Engineers and Pilots.

A Boeing is a pilot's plane. the best aircraft you can actually fly.

And I am not saying Airbus are any less good as they are, but there are some differences between the 2 and Boeing is a far more broad company with more income streams than Airbus.

Boeing is also rolling out their Max 10/11 and B797 in due course so they will always be very popular and eventually they will ride out the storm. They are at the forefront of innovation and they hit the jackpot when the decided not to build an A380 equivalent. A program that has proven to be a financial disaster for Airbus and operators. A380 production has now ceased and operators are trying to reduce these aircraft in their fleets or sell them off but there are not too many customers out there wanting to buy an A380.

Boeing really made a most clever decision leaving Airbus to the mega sized plane area and said straight away they did not believe the A380 is what operators want. They were proven correct.

Even if the MAX does not fly again, what will happen is that Boeing will cover losses from its partners and customers, including loss of revenue. Yes it will cost them Billions but it is nothing for a company that declares 100 billion in profit every year.

Their business is actually quite amazing. Every pilot and airline in the world is a customer of Boeing. From their wonderful mapping and navigational databases like Jeppessen Jeppview to all the FMS updates, they have a very successful business and a virtual monopoly in that field as they are the gold standard. :wink:

http://www.boeing.com/company/about-bca/

Every month they make billions from all the FMS Navdata updates the world over with each AIRAC update.

Boeing has a very tight fanclub the world over. Also, Boeing aircraft hold their value more which is why they are preferred sometimes by the bean counters.
Last edited by Paphitis on Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27414
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:38 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:Boeing to temporarily halt 737 Max production in January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

.


About 6 months ago I had told a member in a PM ( no, it wasn’t Paphitis) that “the MAX has haded”.

Boeing has only one chance to get the MAX right for it to return back to the air because the whole company’s future rides on it. It will take just one more MAX crash after if and when it returned back to service, regardless of the cause, and Boeing would be finished as a brand. His is a very huge risk for Boeing to take and for the regulators. Time has come for Boeing to put the MAX to bed and build planes that the pilots can have control of the aircraft when needed and not for the pilots to have struggles with such devices like the MCAS. Now there are about 800 MAX’s on the ground. Half have flown and the other half still have a zero on the odometer. At this time, best thing Boeing can do with them after they take out the MCAS from each one of them, is to replace the present engines with the old NG engines so that they are fitted where they supposed to be and sell them off in a fire sale to budget airlines, or, design a new powerful engines for them that the MAX can fly safely.

It’s a shame really, because the MAX is the most beautiful passenger plane to look at of all other passenger planes, except for the retired Concord, of course.


Erm, Boeing's future doesn't ride on it at all.
.


If the MAX returns and keeps crashing due to technicality faults, trust in Boeing will suffer hugely.
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 15293
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:52 am

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:Boeing to temporarily halt 737 Max production in January https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50817124

.


About 6 months ago I had told a member in a PM ( no, it wasn’t Paphitis) that “the MAX has haded”.

Boeing has only one chance to get the MAX right for it to return back to the air because the whole company’s future rides on it. It will take just one more MAX crash after if and when it returned back to service, regardless of the cause, and Boeing would be finished as a brand. His is a very huge risk for Boeing to take and for the regulators. Time has come for Boeing to put the MAX to bed and build planes that the pilots can have control of the aircraft when needed and not for the pilots to have struggles with such devices like the MCAS. Now there are about 800 MAX’s on the ground. Half have flown and the other half still have a zero on tshe odometer. At this time, best thing Boeing can do with them after they take out the MCAS from each one of them, is to replace the present engines with the old NG engines so that they are fitted where they supposed to be and sell them off in a fire sale to budget airlines, or, design a new powerful engines for them that the MAX can fly safely.

It’s a shame really, because the MAX is the most beautiful passenger plane to look at of all other passenger planes, except for the retired Concord, of course.


Erm, Boeing's future doesn't ride on it at all.
.


If the MAX returns and keeps crashing due to technicality faults, trust in Boeing will suffer hugely.


they will never let it return just to keep crashing.

If it returns it will mean they have re-certified the aircraft and addressed the issues.

Boeing isn't going to risk its business without being certain about the 737 Max 9s safety. they will never do that and you shouldn't expect them to either.

The MAX is a good concept which is why they are continuing with the program (Max10 and Max11 cousins) and Boeing might even consider replacing all Max 9s with the Max 10 free of charge. they can do that because they have eye watering amounts of money and resources. Their business is very solid.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27414
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:05 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Even if the MAX does not fly again, what will happen is that Boeing will cover losses from its partners and customers, including loss of revenue. Yes it will cost them Billions but it is nothing for a company that declares 100 billion in profit every year.
.


I think you are confusing Boeing’s $100B revenue with profit per year.

All of last year’s approx $10B Boeing’s Profit has been lost this year on the MAX.

Not to mention how much loss in revenue also.
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 15293
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest