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Boeing 737 MAX+

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby erolz66 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:48 am

Paphitis wrote:They own many other businesses like Jeppessen, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and Halliburton which also make massive profits of several Billions of Dollars.



Except Boeing do not own Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, or Halliburton. It is like you just made that up entirely ;)

How about you just fess up and take in on the chin and admit that you were just plain wrong with this claim ? Then I can stop posting this.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:48 pm

...more news on Boeing; troubles in space.

https://in-cyprus.com/boeings-test-caps ... e-station/

“We did obviously have some challenges today. When the spacecraft separated from the launch vehicle we did not get the orbital insertion burn that we were hoping for,” Bridenstine said.

He said the timer error caused the capsule to burn much of its fuel too soon, preventing it from reaching the desired orbit. NASA and Boeing made attempts to manually override the automated errors, but two satellites obstructed its communication signals, he said.

“The challenge here has to do with automation,” Bridenstine said of the unmanned craft, adding that if astronauts had been on board they would have been able to override the automated system that caused the error.

Nicole Mann, one of three astronauts slated to fly on Boeing’s first crewed flight test, told the news conference, “We are looking forward to flying on Starliner. We don’t have any safety concerns.”​ NASA astronaut Mike Fincke added, “Had we been on board, we could have given the flight control team more options on what to do in this situation.”
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:18 am

repulsewarrior wrote:...more news on Boeing; troubles in space.

https://in-cyprus.com/boeings-test-caps ... e-station/

“We did obviously have some challenges today. When the spacecraft separated from the launch vehicle we did not get the orbital insertion burn that we were hoping for,” Bridenstine said.

He said the timer error caused the capsule to burn much of its fuel too soon, preventing it from reaching the desired orbit. NASA and Boeing made attempts to manually override the automated errors, but two satellites obstructed its communication signals, he said.

“The challenge here has to do with automation,” Bridenstine said of the unmanned craft, adding that if astronauts had been on board they would have been able to override the automated system that caused the error.

Nicole Mann, one of three astronauts slated to fly on Boeing’s first crewed flight test, told the news conference, “We are looking forward to flying on Starliner. We don’t have any safety concerns.”​ NASA astronaut Mike Fincke added, “Had we been on board, we could have given the flight control team more options on what to do in this situation.”


Automation is one of the biggest challenges in new projects like this.

Every new technology has its teething problems and technical issues before they get it right.

The F-35 and F-22 are the most advances pieces of tech right now and had their issues also related to all the electronics. The helmet alone has over 1 million dollars worth of high tech. The F-35 even got grounded at one point. I saw one fly at the Avalon Air Show last year. Sorry, but the F-35 and the raptor are game changers as far as I am concerned.

I hope Greece is able to scratch enough cash together to buy 40 of them. If not, plead for some US Aid. They can only say no but if we don't ask we don't get. The US has done it before and the squeaky wheel gets all the oil.

If Greece gets the F-35, Turkey is fucked....

But the aircraft are now operational and are continuously upgraded as the iron out all the bugs.

It's just like our computers that need to be continuously updated for security patches as well.

That's just the way it is.

Boeing is one of those companies that is always pushing the frontiers into uncharted territory and they have been doing that for decades now.

The B787 had problems with its batteries. they are soon to announce the B797 project at the France Air Show in 2020. First prototype should be flying a couple of years after that. Again, with every new project, there will be problems to iron out.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Londonrake » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:45 pm

Boeing boss Dennis Muilenburg to step down https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50893490

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:58 pm

Londonrake wrote:Boeing boss Dennis Muilenburg to step down https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50893490

.

I can’t see firing of Muilenburg is going to make the already faulty 737 MAX any better? Boeing is starting to look for scapegoats when it should look into the mirror to see the culprit. Now that the bottom line is starting to look very negative financially and the lack of customers and passengers confidence in Boeing, then heads are finally starting to roll. The question remains as what to do with approximately 800 of these MAXs sitting on the ground if no one wants them anymore.

Actually, they would make a great homes once converted and you have found a parking space for it! :wink:
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:15 am

Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:Boeing boss Dennis Muilenburg to step down https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50893490

.

I can’t see firing of Muilenburg is going to make the already faulty 737 MAX any better? Boeing is starting to look for scapegoats when it should look into the mirror to see the culprit. Now that the bottom line is starting to look very negative financially and the lack of customers and passengers confidence in Boeing, then heads are finally starting to roll. The question remains as what to do with approximately 800 of these MAXs sitting on the ground if no one wants them anymore.

Actually, they would make a great homes once converted and you have found a parking space for it! :wink:


It will take a lot more to stop customers from buying the MAX 9.

Most airline companies have consolidated their fleets to either Boeing or Airbus, so jumping ship isn't a decision to be taken lightly as it is a very costly exercise.

The MAX will see orders by their hundreds and Boeing still has an order book, which makes the B737 the most successful airliner in the world.

Boeing are still saying the MAX will be flying in March 2020 but they did originally say Dec 2019. They are also claiming the only issue outstanding is the final type rating training (I am presuming it will now be its own type rating) and finalizing the QRH Emergency Procedures which they are testing in the simulators.

This was Boeing's biggest flaw or mistake. it wasn't the fact that the MCAS had issues, because regardless it it did, the MCAS can be fixed. A major issue was with the training and Differences Exams for the pilots with regard to the MCAS. This created confusing as the pilots turned the Stab Trims back on resulting in the final dive to earth.

As for the CEO resigning. I'm sure he was pressured but some top end Boeing Executives did make some incorrect decisions and there is no recovery from that. So that corporate culture will be expunged. Boeing is a very proud company and yes executives do make mistakes and at that level it will cost their careers. It's not about the scapegoats as Boeing has already accepted its responsibilities. But the top brass will fall. It happens in every company like this.

You also got to remember there was extensive consultation by Boeing with its customers - and they themselves pressured Boeing into some of the decisions that took place as it revolved around saving on running costs as well as training costs as these airlines already had B737 rated pilots and just wanted a simple 2 hour differences exam which every pilot must do every 12 months as part of the 30 odd exams we do every year just before we go through our bi-annual 6 monthly Operator Proficiency Certifications in the simulator. Every company has been doing that since I can remember and the key thing for an airline is efficiency and saving on costs wherever you can without harming safety. Without the efficiency drives, then sadly, many airline companies will go bust. It's a battle of survival a lot of time and profits are wafer thin. It's an expensive industry. And of course there are commercial pressures all round. Pilots experience these pressures every day. For instance, you are stuck on the Apron in Brisbane as there is a mother of a cell overhead and you decide you are not flying. Captain's discretion! But you will be amazed how many phone calls you get from ops - usually from an over zealous corporate climber telling you one of the other airliners just took off. :roll:

After March, I believe Boeing has given up and probably will concede that the MAX series is a type endorsement in its own right. Probably over kill, but just about everything will be over kill from now on in regards to the MAX - probably making it the safest airliner in the sky. Boeing won't be taking any chances.

In the meantime, Boeing is still pressing ahead with the MAX 10/11 variants which just goes to show their faith in this aircraft.

As an airline executive, the B737 is a very attractive proposition for those having Boeing fleets. Also because the resale figures on this type is superior, making the B737 a very attractive proposition.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:18 am

The biggest pressure for Boeing to go ahead with the MAX without needing it’s pilots to recertifications on the 737, has to be Southwest Airlines who has the largest orders on the MAX. This was like a child telling the parent what to do. Totally unacceptable. Like all business, there are good days and not so good days with their finances. Sacrificing safety for profit will eventually bite them in the ass. The flying public is also part guilty as they want cheap tickets to fly, or demand on-time- performance even when not so safe to fly, or connections when they are so close to each other of arriving and departing aircrafts. I understand the pressures on the crew to make money for the company by trying to meet most of the customers demands because the management at times make schedules which looks good on paper, but not always in practice.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby cyprusgrump » Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:13 pm

Kikapu wrote:The biggest pressure for Boeing to go ahead with the MAX without needing it’s pilots to recertifications on the 737, has to be Southwest Airlines who has the largest orders on the MAX. This was like a child telling the parent what to do. Totally unacceptable. Like all business, there are good days and not so good days with their finances. Sacrificing safety for profit will eventually bite them in the ass. The flying public is also part guilty as they want cheap tickets to fly, or demand on-time- performance even when not so safe to fly, or connections when they are so close to each other of arriving and departing aircrafts. I understand the pressures on the crew to make money for the company by trying to meet most of the customers demands because the management at times make schedules which looks good on paper, but not always in practice.



Customers don't demand those things tho... :roll:

I mean, I could demand a free upgrade to business class every trip but I wouldn't get it. :wink:

The fact is that airlines gain a competitive advantage by providing those things... Early pioneers like Laker realised there was a huge untapped market of people that couldn't afford normal ticket prices and introduced the concept of low-cost airline travel... The rest is history.

Flying is still the safest form of travel.

Surely, what has unravelled here is the cosy relationship which had developed between Boeing and the certification authorities which allowed a brand new aircraft to be waved through as an existing design...
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:26 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The biggest pressure for Boeing to go ahead with the MAX without needing it’s pilots to recertifications on the 737, has to be Southwest Airlines who has the largest orders on the MAX. This was like a child telling the parent what to do. Totally unacceptable. Like all business, there are good days and not so good days with their finances. Sacrificing safety for profit will eventually bite them in the ass. The flying public is also part guilty as they want cheap tickets to fly, or demand on-time- performance even when not so safe to fly, or connections when they are so close to each other of arriving and departing aircrafts. I understand the pressures on the crew to make money for the company by trying to meet most of the customers demands because the management at times make schedules which looks good on paper, but not always in practice.



Customers don't demand those things tho... :roll:

I mean, I could demand a free upgrade to business class every trip but I wouldn't get it. :wink:

The fact is that airlines gain a competitive advantage by providing those things... Early pioneers like Laker realised there was a huge untapped market of people that couldn't afford normal ticket prices and introduced the concept of low-cost airline travel... The rest is history.

Flying is still the safest form of travel.

Surely, what has unravelled here is the cosy relationship which had developed between Boeing and the certification authorities which allowed a brand new aircraft to be waved through as an existing design...


So tell me, how many times do you see happy customers when the airfares rises overnight, or they have missed their connecting flights due to bad weather, delayed arrival planes, technical problems and have to wait until later in the day or the next day?Traveling public are one of the worse people to deal with by the airline employees on such occasions. The least money they pay, the more they want in return.

I was able to fly with Laker on a one way ticket to Chicago in 1979 fairly cheaply on my first trip to the USA, because at the time most major airlines were regulated by their governments on how much they could charge, so all the fares were the same for all the airlines for the same destinations. It was President Regan who did away with airlines in the USA being regulated and opened the market to be unregulated as far as ticket prices went. Since then many airlines formed and many shut down and many merged to become profitable. Airlines need to charge more for their tickets, but many people will not pay more, so the conundrum.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby cyprusgrump » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:53 pm

Kikapu wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
Kikapu wrote:The biggest pressure for Boeing to go ahead with the MAX without needing it’s pilots to recertifications on the 737, has to be Southwest Airlines who has the largest orders on the MAX. This was like a child telling the parent what to do. Totally unacceptable. Like all business, there are good days and not so good days with their finances. Sacrificing safety for profit will eventually bite them in the ass. The flying public is also part guilty as they want cheap tickets to fly, or demand on-time- performance even when not so safe to fly, or connections when they are so close to each other of arriving and departing aircrafts. I understand the pressures on the crew to make money for the company by trying to meet most of the customers demands because the management at times make schedules which looks good on paper, but not always in practice.



Customers don't demand those things tho... :roll:

I mean, I could demand a free upgrade to business class every trip but I wouldn't get it. :wink:

The fact is that airlines gain a competitive advantage by providing those things... Early pioneers like Laker realised there was a huge untapped market of people that couldn't afford normal ticket prices and introduced the concept of low-cost airline travel... The rest is history.

Flying is still the safest form of travel.

Surely, what has unravelled here is the cosy relationship which had developed between Boeing and the certification authorities which allowed a brand new aircraft to be waved through as an existing design...


So tell me, how many times do you see happy customers when the airfares rises overnight, or they have missed their connecting flights due to bad weather, delayed arrival planes, technical problems and have to wait until later in the day or the next day?Traveling public are one of the worse people to deal with by the airline employees on such occasions. The least money they pay, the more they want in return.

I was able to fly with Laker on a one way ticket to Chicago in 1979 fairly cheaply on my first trip to the USA, because at the time most major airlines were regulated by their governments on how much they could charge, so all the fares were the same for all the airlines for the same destinations. It was President Regan who did away with airlines in the USA being regulated and opened the market to be unregulated as far as ticket prices went. Since then many airlines formed and many shut down and many merged to become profitable. Airlines need to charge more for their tickets, but many people will not pay more, so the conundrum.


And what has that rambling rant got to do with anything...? :roll:

The market sets prices.

That is why prices rise when demand is high (school holidays, etc.)...
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