The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Boeing 737 MAX+

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:30 pm

erolz66 wrote:What happend to this Paphitis ? Posted it and then decided to remove it did you ? Too late.

Paphitis wrote:BTW, the authorities know where MH370 is. I'm willing to only inform Kikaku and only via PM. No one else. Exact position is known but it is suppressed for political reasons.


Do the authorities also know that Boeing owns "Haliburton,Ratheyon and Lockheed-Martin" but are suppressing that for political reasons as well ? What you think you know and reality are two different things. Some people learn from being wrong and become less wrong over time. Then there is you Paphitis.


I would like to amend that by saying I have no clue about MH370.

I know as much as the next person. Which is basically stuff all.

It's a big mystery that may never be solved ever.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27201
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Kikapu » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:32 pm

Paphitis wrote:
erolz66 wrote:What happend to this Paphitis ? Posted it and then decided to remove it did you ? Too late.

Paphitis wrote:BTW, the authorities know where MH370 is. I'm willing to only inform Kikaku and only via PM. No one else. Exact position is known but it is suppressed for political reasons.


Do the authorities also know that Boeing owns "Haliburton,Ratheyon and Lockheed-Martin" but are suppressing that for political reasons as well ? What you think you know and reality are two different things. Some people learn from being wrong and become less wrong over time. Then there is you Paphitis.


I would like to amend that by saying I have no clue about MH370.

I know as much as the next person. Which is basically stuff all.

It's a big mystery that may never be solved ever.


If you send me the info in a PM, then I will give you my two cents worth also in a PM. :wink:
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 15209
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:56 pm

Europe's Airbus has become the world's biggest plane maker this year as its US rival Boeing struggles to get its bestselling MAX jets back in the skies.

Airbus — which has trailed Boeing since 2012 — delivered a record 863 aircraft in 2019, Reuters news agency reported, citing airport and tracking sources. Boeing, on the other hand, had delivered just 345 planes by the end of November and is on course for its worst performance in more than a decade, mainly hurt by the grounding of the MAX aircraft.

https://www.dw.com/en/airbus-topples-bo ... newsletter
User avatar
repulsewarrior
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9655
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:13 am
Location: homeless in Canada

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:14 am

Latest is Ryan Air thinks October 2020 before its B737 MAX will fly.
So what went wrong?
Boeing put new engines on an old wing/fuselage combo (the 737) which moved CG outside of current parameters. That knew the plane may become unstable in flight so they invent the MCAS software to correct, which has but one sensor.

As it now seems the MCAS system does not appear to have been well documented in the flight manuals, least of all how to identify when the MACS system was playing up and override it.

The need for Training in the new system does not appear to have been thought through.

Result?
Two crashes and lots of dead.

Yes the 737max may well end up one of the safest planes in the world, but it should have been that before it ever carried a passenger.

A lot of information suggests Boeing knew they had issues but at best did not understand the significance (the non the wiser but better informed syndrome) at worst they knew it was bad but deep sixed it so we’re fully culpable at what happened, possibly criminally so.

This may be one of the few cases where massive punitive damages may be appropriate. Judging by some product liability cases this could run to more than a couple of hundred million per passenger, or say USD 65 billion dollars.
User avatar
supporttheunderdog
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:03 pm
Location: limassol

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:56 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:Latest is Ryan Air thinks October 2020 before its B737 MAX will fly.
So what went wrong?
Boeing put new engines on an old wing/fuselage combo (the 737) which moved CG outside of current parameters. That knew the plane may become unstable in flight so they invent the MCAS software to correct, which has but one sensor.

As it now seems the MCAS system does not appear to have been well documented in the flight manuals, least of all how to identify when the MACS system was playing up and override it.

The need for Training in the new system does not appear to have been thought through.

Result?
Two crashes and lots of dead.

Yes the 737max may well end up one of the safest planes in the world, but it should have been that before it ever carried a passenger.

A lot of information suggests Boeing knew they had issues but at best did not understand the significance (the non the wiser but better informed syndrome) at worst they knew it was bad but deep sixed it so we’re fully culpable at what happened, possibly criminally so.

This may be one of the few cases where massive punitive damages may be appropriate. Judging by some product liability cases this could run to more than a couple of hundred million per passenger, or say USD 65 billion dollars.


MCAS was used by Lockheed Martin and Airbus before Boeing introduced it on the MAX.

Plus, the B737 MAX isn't an unstable aircraft. It actually has a forward moment meaning it's very stable except in very high Angle of Attack scenarios where the CoG moves rearward due to the position of the engines. A Flight Characteristic they knew and there are many aircraft that have the same - KC-135 and Lockheed L1011 being just 2 examples.

Here are the facts:

1) this flight characteristic isn't a reason to permanently ground the MAX, and

2) MCAS is actually a proven technology that has no issues for certification as MCAS is flying on other types today.

The reason why the MAX isn't flying today is because they are putting the aircraft through the ringer before re-certification. In the end, I will introduce you to the safest plane in the skies when the MAX starts flying again.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27201
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:52 pm

The communications also show that Boeing employees bragged that they could get the now-grounded aircraft certified with minimal training for pilots by misleading US regulators about problems with the simulators.

"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys," said an employee in 2017, apparently in reference to senior management and/or regulators.

The documents include exchanges among Boeing test pilots that highlight problems with the simulators reproducing actual flight conditions, Boeing said.

Now open to the public, the once-secret documents could further derail the company's reputation and deteriorate relations with regulators as the former bestselling grounded jetliner waits to restart operations.

https://www.dw.com/en/boeing-737-max-in ... newsletter
User avatar
repulsewarrior
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9655
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:13 am
Location: homeless in Canada

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:49 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:The communications also show that Boeing employees bragged that they could get the now-grounded aircraft certified with minimal training for pilots by misleading US regulators about problems with the simulators.

"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys," said an employee in 2017, apparently in reference to senior management and/or regulators.

The documents include exchanges among Boeing test pilots that highlight problems with the simulators reproducing actual flight conditions, Boeing said.

Now open to the public, the once-secret documents could further derail the company's reputation and deteriorate relations with regulators as the former bestselling grounded jetliner waits to restart operations.

https://www.dw.com/en/boeing-737-max-in ... newsletter


Sounds like bullshit to me.

Firstly, employees down the line wouldn't have access to such emails aside from top end executives and test pilots. Most of the information would be highly protected and need to know. Workers with a security clearance from the CIA would be the only people to have access and if you reveal any of that information, you risk prosecution and could be locked up for years.

Especially in a facility that is building military equipment like the EW-18G.

Plus, no way in hell these executives would send emails about how to deceive the regulator. That wouldn't happen. The regulator being the FAA or the US Government itself.

Boeing would be a company of high interest to the US Intelligence Agencies. This is the reality. No one would be allowed in their facilities without vetting from the CIA, NSA, FBI and other police Agencies and they all communicate among themselves if necessary. I have no doubt emails and phone calls are monitored, especially those of executives and from other specialized areas when dealing with sensitive IP.

They should reveal these emails. I hate articles claiming there are emails and then fail to put them to public scrutiny.
Last edited by Paphitis on Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27201
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby cyprusgrump » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:51 pm

Paphitis wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:The communications also show that Boeing employees bragged that they could get the now-grounded aircraft certified with minimal training for pilots by misleading US regulators about problems with the simulators.

"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys," said an employee in 2017, apparently in reference to senior management and/or regulators.

The documents include exchanges among Boeing test pilots that highlight problems with the simulators reproducing actual flight conditions, Boeing said.

Now open to the public, the once-secret documents could further derail the company's reputation and deteriorate relations with regulators as the former bestselling grounded jetliner waits to restart operations.

https://www.dw.com/en/boeing-737-max-in ... newsletter


Sounds like bullshit to me.

Firstly, employees down the line wouldn't have access to such emails aside from top end executives and test pilots. Most of the information would be highly protected and need to know. Workers with a security clearance from the CIA would be the only people to have access and if you reveal any of that information, you risk prosecution and could be locked up for years.

Especially in a facility that is building military equipment like the EW-18G.

Plus, no way in hell these executives would send emails about how to deceive the regulator. That wouldn't happen.

They should reveal these emails. I hate articles claiming there are emails and then fail to put them to public scrutiny.


Denial: Not just a river in Egypt.
User avatar
cyprusgrump
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8180
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:35 pm
Location: Pissouri, Cyprus

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:06 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:The communications also show that Boeing employees bragged that they could get the now-grounded aircraft certified with minimal training for pilots by misleading US regulators about problems with the simulators.

"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys," said an employee in 2017, apparently in reference to senior management and/or regulators.

The documents include exchanges among Boeing test pilots that highlight problems with the simulators reproducing actual flight conditions, Boeing said.

Now open to the public, the once-secret documents could further derail the company's reputation and deteriorate relations with regulators as the former bestselling grounded jetliner waits to restart operations.

https://www.dw.com/en/boeing-737-max-in ... newsletter


Sounds like bullshit to me.

Firstly, employees down the line wouldn't have access to such emails aside from top end executives and test pilots. Most of the information would be highly protected and need to know. Workers with a security clearance from the CIA would be the only people to have access and if you reveal any of that information, you risk prosecution and could be locked up for years.

Especially in a facility that is building military equipment like the EW-18G.

Plus, no way in hell these executives would send emails about how to deceive the regulator. That wouldn't happen.

They should reveal these emails. I hate articles claiming there are emails and then fail to put them to public scrutiny.


Denial: Not just a river in Egypt.


well we will see what comes of it but all I can say, if it is true that emails were leaked, then those people are literally finished and will never work for any Aerospace company that has defence contracts ever again.

Could even face prosecution.

I worked for a private defence Contractor for 6 years with contracts worth 3 billion with The Australian Defence Forces. Vetting was absolutely insane, with different security clearances for different employees and God help you if you leaked emails. Minimum penalty, 7 years jail. I have absolutely no doubt that every email you send is monitored, even your phone calls and probbaly even our private mobiles were tapped.

Executives at Boeing would be people of very high interest to the US Government. Make no mistake about that. They would be among the most closely monitored people on the planet. Boeing and other defence companies like them are so highly guarded and regulated by the US Government. hard to imagine anyone can pull the wool over the eyes of the US Government. I would never be brave enough to try anyway. Don't like the idea of jail myself, or a lost and radio active career.

Personally, I don't believe anything will come of it.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 27201
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby cyprusgrump » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:33 pm

An interesting post from my own forum...

It won't go to Chapter 11 due to defence contracts and hidden subsidies. The 2 AoA sensors on the Max are also only active on one side one flight the other side the next flight. So effectively only 1 side per flight. Airbus use 3 with a voting system that ignores any weird reading. Even to a child this would seem more reliable.

The original 737 was a fantastic design for the time - short legs meant it could service all the smaller airfields in America where they was little in the way of infrastructure - integral stairs, low to the ground so it could be loaded/unloaded without belt loaders to reach the holds, only a 5 foot drop from the wings to the floor in an emergency and slimline P&W JT8D engines that snuggled beautifully under the wings. All the next incarnations were inherently compromised due to its low slung nature.

Then the A320 arrived - and let's not forget that it a 40+ year old design. But it had long legs and was designed for the European market with airbridges and no need to be low slung. The new CFM Leap - 1A fits just fine under the wing and it is remarkably efficient - conversations with some easyJet pilots reveal that a A320Neo uses 900kg/hr in the cruise compared to 1,200kg per hour per engine. That's a massive saving. Their A321s, with 235 seats hardly burn more fuel than their old A319s with 156 seats.

The only new narrow body aircraft - the Bombardier CS100/300 (now Airbus A220) is the only truly new narrow body and it is superb. Apart from the P&W GTF engines which, whilst slightly more efficient than the CFM Leap engines seem to be less reliable. So much so that Indigo (India) have had to ground the entire fleet.
User avatar
cyprusgrump
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8180
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:35 pm
Location: Pissouri, Cyprus

PreviousNext

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest