Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

The OP’s about Turkey’s procurement of the S400.

It was suggested by Kurupetos, via an article in Greek (I imagine to throw me), that they posed a threat to aircraft at Akrotiri (well, Episkopi apparently ) I pointed out the shortcomings in the article. A single sentence related to his point which was factually incorrect on the SBAs and I added the technical, missile related reasons, why the idea’s a fantasy anyway. I asked why Turkey would want to shoot down UK aircraft over Cyprus. The same question could be asked about any other NATO planes. It’s a ridiculous idea.

You came back with a “cock sucking” response and hypocritically “rubbished” it, then went off back to 1974. Nothing to do with what was being discussed. Pointing out it was a foul-mouthed rant wasn’t insulting the poster, it was just highlighting the fact.

If you want to start an argument about 1974, there’s an entire section devoted to it on this forum.

You are the one that suggested that Turkey would not blow up British planes in Cyprus, I merely pointed out why they wouldn't since the UK is Turkey's greatest supporter. If you cannot understand the inter-relationship between S400/Britain/Cyprus, then there is no point conversing with you as you appear to think that the sun shines out of the UK ass, and that have had no hand in the Cyprus problem.

They couldn’t do it even if they wanted to.

Just because the S400 has the range doesn’t make them an effective weapon against British or another aircraft flying in the SBAs around Akrotiri and any weapon that is launched will be picked up and tracked by allied Early Warning and it would be dealt with.

The notion that the S400 will be able to knock out British aircraft easily is total stupidity!

If things were that easy everyone would be buying S400, Dome and Patriot.

[Maximus]

Gee! Any RAF aircraft from Akrotiri are well shielded just by the curvature of the earth alone as well as the Troodos.

I doubt the Brits actually give a stuff.

Turkey would get into a lot of trouble even if it tried to attempt the impossible. They have a lot more to lose. They would be in complete violation of NATO and will suffer an embargo.

It is not impossible to knock down a British aircraft with the s400’s. Whether they would or not is what is being discussed. I don’t think they would unless Britain somehow became hostile and agressive.

One of the reasons turkey has purchased this system is so that it can be used against nato countries because endogam is paranoid about another coup. He believes that his allies in nato engineered the last one and an f16 was used.

So, these were purchased to so that they can be used against nato, because nato equipment might have kill switches integrated in them.

[Londonrake]

It is not impossible to knock down a British aircraft with the s400’s. Whether they would or not is what is being discussed. I don’t think they would unless Britain somehow became hostile and agressive.

It is impossible if the target’s outside the missile systems detect/engagement envelope. IE, you can’t shoot down an aircraft over Akrotiri with an S400 based in Turkey. That for a number of reasons.

I would say “trust me” but

So, rather than do that take it from this simple explanation:

https://copradar.com/rdrrange/

[Paphitis]

Gee! Any RAF aircraft from Akrotiri are well shielded just by the curvature of the earth alone as well as the Troodos.

I doubt the Brits actually give a stuff.

Turkey would get into a lot of trouble even if it tried to attempt the impossible. They have a lot more to lose. They would be in complete violation of NATO and will suffer an embargo.

It is not impossible to knock down a British aircraft with the s400’s. Whether they would or not is what is being discussed. I don’t think they would unless Britain somehow became hostile and agressive.

One of the reasons turkey has purchased this system is so that it can be used against nato countries because endogam is paranoid about another coup. He believes that his allies in nato engineered the last one and an f16 was used.

So, these were purchased to so that they can be used against nato, because nato equipment might have kill switches integrated in them.

Listen mate, if the Turks manage to shoot down a RAF with all the Early Warning and Radar they have and to top it all off all the Early Warning and Air Defence of the US 5th Fleet Battle Group near Cyprus then I will eat my Akubra Hat.

It’s not a simple process. First, their radar needs to acquire a target and that is practically impossible because the targets are shielded by the curvature of the earth and also terrain (such as Troodos). And even if the Turks did it, they would pay a massive price for such a stupid act. And if Britain got hostile with a Turkey, the S400s are a lot more vulnerable to HARM than a RAF aircraft would be near Akrotiri.

I doubt that they are stupid enough.

There is only 1 Radar that can go over the horizon to sea level. It’s the JORN located across Australia. It can pick up recreational fishing boats on the water or so they say. S400 can’t do that.

And the JORN can do that because it is short wave and bounces off the ionosphere back down to the earths surface and has a range of about 2500 kms. But, it’s still has a blind spot and medium ranges or at short range.

[repulsewarrior]

...who would attack Turkey, but someone they have attacked?

...who do they plan on attacking; Cyprus? That would be possible, if the rest of the world is truly united against the notions he has.

...indeed, without Cyprus as a State equal to his own, he has total supremacy over this sea. And in the Aegean, as such the Treaty of Lausanne, "out the window", more expansionism, based on his power, rather than reason, and a respect for the next big step in such international politics, UNCLOS.

...but the question is, will he continue attacking in a hostile manner, and militarily, the people who live in his sphere of influence?

[Maximus]

It is not impossible to knock down a British aircraft with the s400’s. Whether they would or not is what is being discussed. I don’t think they would unless Britain somehow became hostile and agressive.

It is impossible if the target’s outside the missile systems detect/engagement envelope. IE, you can’t shoot down an aircraft over Akrotiri with an S400 based in Turkey. That for a number of reasons.

I would say “trust me” but

So, rather than do that take it from this simple explanation:

https://copradar.com/rdrrange/

How about looking at the s400's radar system features instead.

The effective (detection) range for the s400's is about 400km.

Cyprus is within 400km of Turkey.

So what you are both (incl. Paphitis) saying is that this system is useless over Cyprus? Even though its features boast an effective range of 400km......

The 91N6E[18] is a panoramic radar detection system (range 600 km) with protection against jamming which is mounted on an MZKT-7930. The S band system can track 300 targets.[19] Six battalions of 98ZH6E surface-to-air missile systems (an independent combat system)[20] can track no more than six targets on their own,[21] with an additional two battalions if they are within a 40-kilometre (25 mi) range. The 92N6E (or 92N2E) is a multi-functional radar with a 400-kilometre (250 mi) range which can track 100 targets

[Londonrake]

What doesn’t seem to be getting across is that any such radar system is physically limited by factors such as the curvature of the Earth, natural geological and atmospheric features and its own parameters.

Whilst you quote the maximum theoretical range of the S400 you’re not taking these limitations into account. Do you really think a missile system radar on the ground in Turkey can detect an aircraft flying at medium to low level over southern Cyprus? It’s physically impossible. Marvel comic stuff.

Regardless, all of this is moot. The idea of Turkey shooting down UK aircraft is ridiculous. A fantasy. Third time lucky saying that perhaps?

Surely, of more concern are the implications for Turkey of procuring the S400 and the consequences for their future relationship with NATO, particularly the US, Plus of course, what will being dropped from the F-35 program mean to them?

[Kikapu]

Turkey would need the help of an AWACS planes or satellites to help it’s S-400s to see targets beyond the curvature of the Earth!

[Paphitis]

Air Defence Missile systems already in Cyprus with The Cyprus National Guard would be a bigger short term threat to the British than the S400s in Turkey.

That's because they are within Line of Sight of Akrotiri, and can in all likelihood, have a sophisticated enough radar to interrogate a RAF aircraft and even fire at it. Doesn't mean the RAF will lose an aircraft because the brits are capable pf jamming and the aircraft can defend itself and evade the missile.

And then, within probably 2 minutes, there would be HARM missiles inbound to these radar systems so they would probably be wiped from the map.

But the CNG would be a bigger threat to the SBAs than Turkey is with its S400s and you don't see the Brits being too worried about the CNG. That's because they know that any conflict between Britain and Cyprus is just pure fantasy.

As with everything, these missiles all have their limitations and weaknesses too. Their radar also makes them extremely vulnerable to attack as well. The only way to circumvent that is by not colocating the Missile launchers with the target radar. Either way, the radar is exposed the second it is switched on and can be destroyed by an enemy.

[Robin Hood]

It gives me great confidence that we have so many weapons experts on the forum ..... that are obviously far smarter and better informed than anybody else's experts.

Curvature of the Earth? Why do you think these rockets are fired upwards and not parallel to the Earths surface, where they could fly under the RADAR, which of course has exactly the same physical limitations as the rockets ...... unless it is in Australia, then different rules apply!