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S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:46 pm

LR:
Perhaps it's an oversimplified attempt at an explanation but as you indicate, radar is analogous to sight. Both receive and interpret EM radiation. Albeit radar reception is of returns from a transmitted pulse, whilst vision is passive.

Not quite true if you think about it. What you see is what your eyes collect as reflected light from an object, that is, unless you happen to be looking straight into the light source! So really light is no more passive than RADAR it needs a source.
It does get a bit more complex when frequency's a factor. At very low frequencies radar pulses have more of a tendency to "hug" the earth.

If you say so ..... I am no expert on the technical aspects of ‘frequencies’ altering the laws of physics. But I do believe that distant (Galactic) observations are made by detecting space ‘bending’ light, so maybe some brilliant academic found an ‘anomaly’ in the accepted theory? Probably an Aboriginal looking up his diggery-do one dark night! :wink: :)
.......... let's say by placing the Cypriot S300s on Troodos.

Technically a good idea ......... militarily not so, they make a much better target, outlined against the setting Sun! :)
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Paphitis » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:03 am

Robin Hood wrote:Paphitis:
More information about JORN that basically explains how it works. See! Bounces from the ionosphere.


Blah, blah, blah ..... all very impressive ...... but it is all based on the basic laws of physics, not a spectacular discovery by your hero's!

Just as I explained! Look at the footprint ..... area alert only ......direct line-of-sight RADAR needed to locate a specific target within the RADAR foot print. It does not identify a fishing boat ..... it sees an 'anomaly' within a fairly large area, an anomaly that could be anywhere in the footprint, for reasons (other natural phenomena) I have already explained to you! :roll:


Robin Hood, I am telling you from experience having seen and been exposed to Jorn for hundreds of hours and even being involved in some way by testing it.

Secondly, it isn't the same thing as a conventional radar. I am no expert and really don't know how it works but JORN and Primary Radar are 2 different things even though they call JORN a radar it is not entirely a correct description.

They are using some different type of wavelength, probably similar to shortwave (although I am not sure) which does bounce off the ionosphere in a similar fashion as Shortwave radio waves do.

Hence they get a phenomenal range and detect objects right down to the earth's surface and behind terrain.

We were unable to not be detected from it even at altitudes of 100FT thousands of kilometers away and closer to Jakarta than Australia.

It isn't the only method used either. We have Wedgetails, and Dash 8 airborne radar platforms (with Raytheon Systems Primary radar) which interoperate with JORN, as well as Surface Naval Ships, Drones for surveillance and identification, plus P8 Poseidon aircraft. Also some Satellites. Even the Dash 8 platforms can detect surface targets from an elevated height and because of that had massive range but could not see blow the horizon due to the earth's curvature or behind terrain but JORN could.

The infrastructure is very impressive. JORN "radar" and Primary radar such as the one on S400 and also like the Primary radar installations Australia also uses are not the same thing. JORN can actually pick up drug smugglers, gun runners, illegal fishing vessels, illegal immigrants with a phenomenal success rate. Australian Agencies boast that they can see everything. I believe that is the case as well. It's too multilayered and even if there are weaknesses all the other platforms fill in the gaps.

They have tried testing it with F-35 and F-22 and even these stealth aircraft are getting picked up at very low altitudes.

The links I provided you are official Government links with information the Australian Government has released. I am sure they are not being completely honest, because the actual building in Adelaide is one of the most secure buildings in Australia aside from the facilities they have at Harold E Holt, and Pine Gap.

Around harold E Holt, there have been a number of incidents with Commercial Aviation as well.

Now, the official sources I gave you from the Australian Government have indicated that JORN can detect waves on the ocean which is phenomenal as far as I am concerned. Why would they say this.

The DASH 8s are highly secretive too, but not like the Poseidons, or Wedgetails. Certainly not like JORN either although you can get a lot more information about JORN than you can about Harold E Holt and Pine Gap.

When you go to Alice Springs you ask people what they do and there seems to be a very high proportion of Cooks and Gardeners there. Truth is, they work for ASIO, Defence Sygnals, CIA or NSA. A lot of the Cooks and gardeners had American accents too, so these American "Cooks" and "Gardeners" moved to the middle of Australia for work. :lol: :lol:

Pine Gap is also connected to the British SBA Agios Nikolaos in Cyprus as well as other facilities in North America, Europe, and Asia.

Australia today probably has one of the most advanced surveillance networks on the planet and they are determined to prevent every illegal activity from drug running to immigration.

there are people who have been in detention centres for almost 10 years. i think the last remaining ones are about to be deported and the detention facilities will be closed in due cause because the detection rate is 100% and the prosecuting laws draconian. So Asylum seekers have finally given up and will be taken to Canada and the USA instead whilst others are deported to their country of origin.

Our biggest weakness for drug importation and drugs are believe it or not, airports, and ports. Running the gauntlet from Asia to Australia in a boat or aircraft is virtually impossible.

there is a zero tolerance. Australia's resolve on this matter is unmistakable.

We have always been suspicious and scared of our Northern Neighbors like Indonesia. We have had a war with them too not that long ago which I am sure they haven't forgotten. It's our Mexico but our saving grace is we do not share a border but Australia remains vigilant and some say paranoid hence its very close alliance with the USA and the investment of Billions up Billions on cutting edge technologies.
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Maximus » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:40 pm

News just in,

France will deploy a Eurosam SAMP-T missile defense battery on Turkey's southern border.

https://news.yahoo.com/france-deploy-eu ... 00245.html

https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-france/fra ... ern-border
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:25 pm

Maximus wrote:News just in,

France will deploy a Eurosam SAMP-T missile defense battery on Turkey's southern border.

https://news.yahoo.com/france-deploy-eu ... 00245.html

https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-france/fra ... ern-border


France doesn't have a 'Southern border' with Turkey ..... in fact it doesn't have any borders at all with Turkey! It must be a maritime missile or they intend to put it in Crete, but they have Russian S-300's ........ or in the Roc but they have Russian BUK missiles ........... or maybe they just checked the location of Turkey with Trump? :roll: :lol: :lol:
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby erolz66 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:32 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Maximus wrote:News just in,

France will deploy a Eurosam SAMP-T missile defense battery on Turkey's southern border.

https://news.yahoo.com/france-deploy-eu ... 00245.html

https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-france/fra ... ern-border


France doesn't have a 'Southern border' with Turkey ..... in fact it doesn't have any borders at all with Turkey! It must be a maritime missile or they intend to put it in Crete, but they have Russian S-300's ........ or in the Roc but they have Russian BUK missiles ........... or maybe they just checked the location of Turkey with Trump? :roll: :lol: :lol:


Are they not saying France plans to deploy IN Turkey, ON Turkey's southern border, as part of NATO and as Italy had already done several years ago ?
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Maximus » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:16 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Maximus wrote:News just in,

France will deploy a Eurosam SAMP-T missile defense battery on Turkey's southern border.

https://news.yahoo.com/france-deploy-eu ... 00245.html

https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-france/fra ... ern-border


France doesn't have a 'Southern border' with Turkey ..... in fact it doesn't have any borders at all with Turkey! It must be a maritime missile or they intend to put it in Crete, but they have Russian S-300's ........ or in the Roc but they have Russian BUK missiles ........... or maybe they just checked the location of Turkey with Trump? :roll: :lol: :lol:


Are they not saying France plans to deploy IN Turkey, ON Turkey's southern border, as part of NATO and as Italy had already done several years ago ?


I understand why RH would think that.

After contemplating it for a while, I also thought, they will be in Turkey at the southern “border”, which is actually a coastline.

Why.? Is a question I am still asking myself. France and turkey are not on the best of terms so it would be fair to assume that they would be reluctant to beef up turkeys security.

Then again she is in nato but turkey has just bought the s400’s.

Could it possibly be to counteract the s400’s missiles flying south.? What threat does turkey have to her southern border that France or Italy would give a shit about?

Could it be more like, France and Italy give a shit about their interests in the eastern med, south of turkeys border?
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:06 am

Maximus:
Could it be more like, France and Italy give a shit about their interests in the eastern med, south of turkeys border?

It's all about the O I L ........ as you say what does Turkey have to the South that needs French protection other than their own economic interests? :roll:
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Londonrake » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:45 am

Robin Hood wrote:Maximus:
Could it be more like, France and Italy give a shit about their interests in the eastern med, south of turkeys border?

It's all about the O I L ........ as you say what does Turkey have to the South that needs French protection other than their own economic interests? :roll:


I thought it was G A S. :D

Bearing in mind that the missiles being talked about are anti-aircraft I'm not sure what they would be flying south to attack. It all seems to be about shipping. :?
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Re: S-400s has arrived in Turkey. Now what?

Postby Maximus » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:32 am

Anyway, the biggest losers in this are turkey and the US.

The biggest winner is Russia.

Russia got payed and created a rift in NATO.

Erdogan got his s400, but has lost billions from supplying parts for the F35. He has also lost the option of buying the F35, which is a multi role military hardware. The s400 is single role.

The US has lost a customer of the F35 and now sees turkey as an unreliable ally. The potential for a greater rupture in relations exists, because turkey is now talking about helping to produce Russian weapons and to buy more.

Endorgan thinks he is playing the US against Russia but he is the one being played.
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