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hs2 - what a disaster

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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:40 pm

once they have sorted your mental health issues be sure to let me know
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:18 pm

sohere is why they decided to do hs2 and not a word about capacity or demand.

Reason: It will help bridge the north-south divide.

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg says the government is "healing the north-south divide" by investing in High Speed 2. Chancellor George Osborne predicts the Y-shaped line will be "the engine for growth in the north and the Midlands".
The first phase between London and Birmingham will open in 2026. A V-shaped second section will be added in 2033, going to Manchester and Leeds. The government says it expects 70% of jobs created to be outside London. A government-commissioned report by accountants KPMG suggests that the Midlands and north will benefit more than the capital.

The West Midlands will gain most in absolute terms with a rise of £1.5bn-£3.1bn in output in 2037. The East Midlands will gain most in percentage terms - between 2.2% and 4.3% increase in output in 2037. The real regeneration benefit comes from shrinking journey times between cities in the Midlands and north of England, supporters argue.
Leeds to Birmingham is slashed from 1 hour 58 minutes to just 57 minutes. The East Midlands hub at Toton is 19 minutes from Birmingham. Manchester to Birmingham more than halves from 88 to 41 minutes.
London gains from the line (by 0.5% a year) but less than the cities on HS2 to the north, says KPMG report author Lewis Atter. "The reality is that cities compete with each other. And while London is more productive it is also more expensive." Other parts of the UK not on the line but close enough to benefit from freed up rail capacity also gain by 0.5% a year, he says. But places far away from the line - Wales for example - will probably lose out economically, he says.

so if you spend 5 pounds and get one back, how is it going to benefit these areas again?
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:54 am

Here you go. A submission showing 42 stations not served by HS2 will get better capacity.

https://cdn.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/26151813/Capture1.jpg?_gl=1*1vrscn6*_ga*YW1wLVFULVVWd1BqVFZWamJMT3pIa2h4UlE.

If you read this you can see what alternatives were considered and dismissed

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rail-alternatives-to-hs2

The business case has always included the extra capacity on other lines.. the press however like the headline grabbing 250 mph trains..
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:13 pm

so if you had a car and needed another car to do same journeys you think a ferrari is the best car to buy?

whats wrong with a gasha to tow along and double your passengers.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:31 pm

Lordo wrote:so if you had a car and needed another car to do same journeys you think a ferrari is the best car to buy?

whats wrong with a gasha to tow along and double your passengers.


But when the road is full no one goes anywhere slow let alone fast - there really are very limited options to improve capacity on the existing lines, and many of the subsidiary benefits not involving travel to or from London, fast or slow, will be lost. Significantly lengthening trains or trying to squeeze new tracks in are not an option because of the massive physical disruption over decades that this will cause, so building a new line is the best option - and that may as well be built to modern standards where the restrictions of a 19th century system are avoided -

=Anyway, if you feel that way you can ride your donkey -
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:44 pm

i seem to remember another project that cut travel times by half and that was also the future and yet where is it? gooooeeeennnnneeeeeeeee.

hs2 is no different.

it makes no sense to start a brand new line or to aim for 250 miles an hour in a country which is less than 880 miles. a few thousand miles perhaps.

don't knock donkey power, unless we crack renewable energy or utalising the sun we may well end up returning to that.

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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:20 pm

Yes but I keep telling you, it’s not primarily about 250mph trains...that is headlines promoted by the tabloid press to sell papers..its about freeing up capacity on existing lines without the massive disruption for little benefit that other ideas, such as upgrading or expanding existing lines would involve, with the decades of disruption involved in such schemes.

It’s about taking non London Centric journey times such as the cross country route from the SW England to the Northeast England from being slow and unattractive to being more attractive by a reduction of over an hour in the time from Birmingham to Newcastle, and with a similar reduction time for the Journey to Edinburgh, beginning to make it time competitive with flying from Birmingham to Edinburgh, with all the hassle that flying involves, of getting too and from airports, along with check-in and security.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:39 am

and yet it starts from euston of all places. thats very interesting iwonder if you actually had a look at the map.

the route from euston to birmingham and manchetser is 50% empty most times accept peak times and the first class are empty about 90% of the time. perhaps they consider bot splitting fist class to standard 50/50. that will help. i really do feel for you it is back to donkey and cart with no suspensions cypriot style is best.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:03 pm

Well you have to start it somewhere and they have found the space at Euston by buying up lots of properties on the west side of the station and clearing them. Euston is after all currently the NW gateway station and reasonably well connected to the underground, better connected when Euston square on the Met / H&C / Circle line will have direct access.

the position remains that with current line usage there are capacity problems in particular on commuter trains at peak times. Get the long distance expresses separate and you possibly more than double the number of commuter trains.

I know that line: there is not the space to do it by adding tracks alone side and that would be just as costly in land costs as building the new line, and more disruptive.
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Re: hs2 - what a disaster

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:51 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:Well you have to start it somewhere and they have found the space at Euston by buying up lots of properties on the west side of the station and clearing them. Euston is after all currently the NW gateway station and reasonably well connected to the underground, better connected when Euston square on the Met / H&C / Circle line will have direct access.

the position remains that with current line usage there are capacity problems in particular on commuter trains at peak times. Get the long distance expresses separate and you possibly more than double the number of commuter trains.

I know that line: there is not the space to do it by adding tracks alone side and that would be just as costly in land costs as building the new line, and more disruptive.

i can clearly see you are clueles about project management. let me educate you.

first you need to understad the problem fully.
then you work out the possible solutions
then analise each one to see the benefits and dis-benefits.
decide which solution you will go with and justify it by making sure it is value for money
then begin the project.


this project was doomed before it started.

similar to brexit really. same people same shit. they have spend billions and we still don't know if we are going or staying. done properly firat we woul dhave the decision finalised. then prepare for it and then leave.

when you have people who snort drugs making decision for you, you normally end up in a mess and a half but they are always alright becasue when they leave the palms that were greased will always look after you after you leave office
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